Is it okay for Trump to use FBI to spy on political foes?

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
while i agree with you, that wasn't the question. the F.B.I. isn't a tool to be used to further political careers, and the president should have little if any direct control over it
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I was just cutting through the crap. Trump is using the FBI as a whipping boy for his own misdeeds. The FBI, in my opinion acted rightly in this case.

Nixon used the FBI in a different way. I don't think we need to ask if that's OK too.

The answer to both issues is there has to be a balance of power that checks the president's misuse of the FBI. Or maybe we get rid of the FBI altogether. Not that I'm advocating for the latter.

But I don't think we disagree, do we?
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I was just cutting through the crap. Trump is using the FBI as a whipping boy for his own misdeeds. The FBI, in my opinion acted rightly in this case.

Nixon used the FBI in a different way. I don't think we need to ask if that's OK too.

The answer to both issues is there has to be a balance of power that checks the president's misuse of the FBI. Or maybe we get rid of the FBI altogether. Not that I'm advocating for the latter.

But I don't think we disagree, do we?
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i'd like to get rid of the president and the fbi, both, but things are the way they are. i still think the president should have no direct control of the fbi. how often has the president had a background in criminal justice? why would you give an administrator direct control of an investigative body? why would you give control of that same body to someone who should be under observation by them? because i think the president should be under constant observation. they're in the most visible office in the country, they ought to expect it, and have nothing to hide.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i'd like to get rid of the president and the fbi, both, but things are the way they are. i still think the president should have no direct control of the fbi. how often has the president had a background in criminal justice? why would you give an administrator direct control of an investigative body? why would you give control of that same body to someone who should be under observation by them? because i think the president should be under constant observation. they're in the most visible office in the country, they ought to expect it, and have nothing to hide.
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The FBI was pretty much independent under J Edgar and that wasn't a good outcome either.

Things aren't working well right now because we have monumentally bad president. The last time we had a president who was this bad, he resigned before he was impeached and then removed from office by congress. I'd rather we keep the FBI under the auspices of the president, an elected leader, than create an independent FBI. Same goes with the military. The answer to having a bad president is going to be made within the next 2 years.or so. This country is working through the problem.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
i don't think they should be independent, but they shouldn't answer to the president, and he shouldn't be able to direct them. i would suggest a panel of 5 to 7 high ranking people from the justice department to have oversight over the department
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i don't think they should be independent, but they shouldn't answer to the president, and he shouldn't be able to direct them. i would suggest a panel of 5 to 7 high ranking people from the justice department to have oversight over the department
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The Justice Department reports to the president.

We elect the president and hold him accountable for maintaining a functioning government. I doesn't matter how many layers of pencil pushers are between him and the FBI, we will hold the president accountable for failures in national security. The system is working. We just need to replace the bad one we now have with somebody better.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
FBI directors are expected to conduct politically independent investigations.
While it's true that the attorney general is part of Trump's Cabinet, the president's remarks that the FBI director answers directly to him ignores a longstanding precedent of distance between the executive branch and an independent FBI.

"As a matter of constitutional hierarchy, this is of course true. But in investigative matters, the FBI director does not, or should not, serve the president by reporting to him," wrote Benjamin Wittes, editor in chief of Lawfare blog and a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution.


"He serves the president by leading law enforcement in an independent and apolitical fashion. And it is fundamentally corrupt for any president to be asking him to do otherwise... The astonishing implication of Trump’s view is that he believes the president may shut down an FBI investigation that displeases him."

FBI directors serve a lengthy 10-year term designed to guard FBI directors' political independence — and presidents typically do not want to give even the appearance of influencing the nonpolitical law enforcement agency's investigations.

For instance, while President Obama appointed Comey to head the agency, Comey said he only spoke with Obama twice in three years: once about law enforcement policy issues and once to say goodbye. By contrast, Comey said he and President Trump spoke nine times over the course of four months.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/07/20/fbi-director-reports-justice-department-not-president/495094001/
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
Tell us more about how you live a life free of bias and do not judge others.
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I don't know any of the people involved. I heard one side of the story and have no idea how much truth was in it. You seem to think that's enough. Because you are so quick to jump to a conclusion, I think you are just biased and judging somebody through that bias without the whole story.

What you are demonstrating by your poor judgement is a basic flaw in your character. I am free of that flaw. So suck it.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I don't know any of the people involved. I heard one side of the story and have no idea how much truth was in it. You seem to think that's enough. Because you are so quick to jump to a conclusion, I think you are just biased and judging somebody through that bias without the whole story.

What you are demonstrating by your poor judgement is a basic flaw in your character. I am free of that flaw. So suck it.
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A deal was struck. MJ was delivered. No payment was made and MJ was not returned. I'm not aware of these facts being disputed.

I have many flaws and do not claim to be without bias, because, you know, I'm human. But congrats to you for overcoming human nature.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
while i agree with you, that wasn't the question. the F.B.I. isn't a tool to be used to further political careers, and the president should have little if any direct control over it
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if there were agents planted in the trump campaign they weren't being used politically against trump otherwise all this treasonous shit would have leaked in october 2016
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
Would it be wrong for Trump to take marijuana from you and then not pay any of the agreed upon price? What would you call that?
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we knew back in october 2016 that trump ripped off contractors his entire life, you celebrated his illegitimate victory alongside avowed white supremacists anyway
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
A deal was struck. MJ was delivered. No payment was made and MJ was not returned. I'm not aware of these facts being disputed.

I have many flaws and do not claim to be without bias, because, you know, I'm human. But congrats to you for overcoming human nature.
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congrats on being a fucking two face. with all your other unflattering qualities i did not think you had room for it
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
I will put you down as a supporter of Trump using FBI to spy on political opponents. Thanks for your opinion.
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if trump did nothing wrong, shouldn;t he (and his rat shit eating sycophants like you) be happy since it would only vindicate him and his innocence?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Bugeye said:
A deal was struck. MJ was delivered. No payment was made and MJ was not returned. I'm not aware of these facts being disputed.

I have many flaws and do not claim to be without bias, because, you know, I'm human. But congrats to you for overcoming human nature.
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how do you know all this?
 
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