Neef’s first attempt at No-Till

[neef]

Good evening all! Welcome to my first attempt at a No-Till garden indoors. I’m starting this thread looking for input and to look back for my own records.

I started with 10 seeds (a friends genetics) ended up with 4 females. Started them in a coco FFOF mix then transplanted in 5 gallon bags with FFOF. I plan on them finishing their term in a 65 gallon smart pot under a 1000 watt hps.

I’m going to mix up a batch of soil tonight using;

4 bags of Roots original
2 bags of Fox Farms Ocean Forrest
1 bag (8 qts) of Rice Hulls

2 cups of Roots Bat Guano (9-3-1)
1.5 cups of Humic Acid
1.5 cups of Kelp Meal (1-0.1-2)
1.5 cups of Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2)
2 cups of Langbeinite (0-0-22)
2 cups of Seabird Guano (0-11-0)
2 cups of Alfalfa Meal (2.5-0.5-2.5)
2 cups of Oyster Shell
5 cups of Worm Castings (1-0-0)

Then letting the soil cook for 2.5 weeks transplanting the already established 2 footers. Veg for another 2 weeks then flip to flower.

I’m worried my mix will be to hot and that the plant roots may get to crowded. Any input is greatly appreciated! I’ll attach pics of my girls as of today when the light turns back on.
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts hope all is well!

Thanks,
Neef

 

[Tyleb173rd]

I’d hold off on using bat guano for nitrogen in your initial soil mix. IMO, and it’s amateur at best, Bat guanos are more suitable for top dressing in no tills because of their quick bioavailability.

 

[Wetdog]

If those rice hulls are intended for aeration you really need to rethink that. They break down and turn to mush in fairly short order and end up doing the opposite., making the mix way too dense. Use something inert like perlite or graded pumice that will not break down.

Your aeration should be ~40% of the total mix. Not enough aeration seems to be the #1 problem with people just starting no tills.

Wet

 

[neef]

I’d hold off on using bat guano for nitrogen in your initial soil mix. IMO, and it’s amateur at best, Bat guanos are more suitable for top dressing in no tills because of their quick bioavailability.

Thanks! That exactly the kind of advice I’m looking for. I appreciate it.

If those rice hulls are intended for aeration you really need to rethink that. They break down and turn to mush in fairly short order and end up doing the opposite., making the mix way too dense. Use something inert like perlite or graded pumice that will not break down.

Your aeration should be ~40% of the total mix. Not enough aeration seems to be the #1 problem with people just starting no tills.

Wet

Wet to be honest I was using them for aeration and their nutritional value (if any) figured it wouldn’t hurt to add them since I got them for a dollar. Do you think lava rock would be a better to use then perlite? Roots and FFOF comes with so much (or so I thought) already.

 

[Wetdog]

Rice hulls will supply carbon and silica ... eventually, so they aren't a waste and I add some to my worm bins for that very purpose.

If I had to rate the top 3 aeration amendments (perlite, graded pumice and lava rock), lava rock would rate ~#15. It's heavy, dense and hard to break into a useable size. Graded pumice is WAY ahead of it, but super expensive unless you live close to the old volcanos that produced it. I've used perlite for over 45 years with no complaints. I would go with either the perlite or the pumice whichever is cheapest and can be sourced locally. Pumice is common out west, rare in the east. Perlite seems to be common everywhere.

No idea about any bagged mixes, I've always made mine from scratch, because that's the way I was taught.

Wet

 

[ShLUbY]

mother earth/growstone pumice at the local hydro stores here in the midwest. I like it a lot. as wet said, rice hulls pretty much suck for aeration, but they're awesome for mulch! I had a huge bale of them and used em for mulch all the time, works great and looks nice! they do get a little messy at times though, nothing the shop vac can't handle!

 

[neef]

Rice hulls will supply carbon and silica ... eventually, so they aren't a waste and I add some to my worm bins for that very purpose.

If I had to rate the top 3 aeration amendments (perlite, graded pumice and lava rock), lava rock would rate ~#15. It's heavy, dense and hard to break into a useable size. Graded pumice is WAY ahead of it, but super expensive unless you live close to the old volcanos that produced it. I've used perlite for over 45 years with no complaints. I would go with either the perlite or the pumice whichever is cheapest and can be sourced locally. Pumice is common out west, rare in the east. Perlite seems to be common everywhere.
Wet,
No idea about any bagged mixes, I've always made mine from scratch, because that's the way I was taught.

Wet

Ok perlite it is then. Thank you for all your help! Do you think my amendments amount is on par?

mother earth/growstone pumice at the local hydro stores here in the midwest. I like it a lot. as wet said, rice hulls pretty much suck for aeration, but they're awesome for mulch! I had a huge bale of them and used em for mulch all the time, works great and looks nice! they do get a little messy at times though, nothing the shop vac can't handle!

ShLUby I love my trusty shop vac saves me from getting yelled at by the old lady How thick of a layer were you using? I’ll ask you as well, what are your thoughts on the amount of amendments I used?

Thank you everyone for posting I know your time is valuable.

 

[Wetdog]

Ok perlite it is then. Thank you for all your help! Do you think my amendments amount is on par.

IDK, how big are those bags of Roots and FFOF? Need to know how many cf you're working with.

I'd definately give the guanos a pass though.

Wet

 

[ShLUbY]

IDK, how big are those bags of Roots and FFOF? Need to know how many cf you're working with.

I'd definately give the guanos a pass though.

Wet

^^^ this

 

[neef]

IDK, how big are those bags of Roots and FFOF? Need to know how many cf you're working with.

I'd definately give the guanos a pass though.

Wet

Each bag is labeled as 1.5 cf so approximately 9 cf of soil not including the rice hulls. The bat guano will now out of the mix only used for teas from now on.

 

[ShLUbY]

So with 9cuft of already amended mix, you’ll probably want to stay light on the amendments like you are. I would double the kelp meal, and the neem up to 3 cups. 5 cups of worm castings is basically only serving as a bacterial inoculant which is fine. Ditch the guanos altogether honestly unless you see an N def.

 

[Wetdog]

+1

There is simply nothing I could add to ShLUbY's posts. Our growing styles & techniques are pretty much the same.

Wet

 

[neef]

So with 9cuft of already amended mix, you’ll probably want to stay light on the amendments like you are. I would double the kelp meal, and the neem up to 3 cups. 5 cups of worm castings is basically only serving as a bacterial inoculant which is fine. Ditch the guanos altogether honestly unless you see an N def.

When you say light does that effect my cooking time? For example I could go with a shorter amount then 2.5 weeks. I guess I’ll add the guanos to my AACT for my veggie garden outside then.

+1

There is simply nothing I could add to ShLUbY's posts. Our growing styles & techniques are pretty much the same.

Wet

I hope one day to be on the sa,e level as you two!

This plant pictured below is my pride and joy. Love the short bushy characteristics of this plant. The second pics is with the light on which I realize is a no-no but wanted to post so everyone has an idea of what I’m working with on this side of the tent (about 25 Tomatoe, Cilantro, and Aloe plants on the other half)

 

[ShLUbY]

When you say light does that effect my cooking time? For example I could go with a shorter amount then 2.5 weeks. I guess I’ll add the guanos to my AACT for my veggie garden outside then.


I hope one day to be on the sa,e level as you two!

This plant pictured below is my pride and joy. Love the short bushy characteristics of this plant. The second pics is with the light on which I realize is a no-no but wanted to post so everyone has an idea of what I’m working with on this side of the tent (about 25 Tomatoe, Cilantro, and Aloe plants on the other half)

Nah, light amounts doesn’t affect anything. Cant really speed up biology. Remember, you’re not “cooking” anything, you are inoculating a mass of soil with organisms that require time to multiply/divide. Nutrients need to become bioavailable to the plant and mainly do so via communication with these organisms. Don’t rush it! Be sure to brew an aact for your initial mix and give populations a good start.

 

[neef]

Nah, light amounts doesn’t affect anything. Cant really speed up biology. Remember, you’re not “cooking” anything, you are inoculating a mass of soil with organisms that require time to multiply/divide. Nutrients need to become bioavailable to the plant and mainly do so via communication with these organisms. Don’t rush it! Be sure to brew an aact for your initial mix and give populations a good start.

Understood. I’m currently a week into this process of letting the soil do it’s thing was planning on adding about 500 worms to help out.

But was wondering if the 65 gallon smart pot would be the best option for a couple plants or if it would be more productive to use 15 gallon smart pots per individual plant? I currently have all the soil in the 65 gallon if that helps any.

 

[ShLUbY]

Understood. I’m currently a week into this process of letting the soil do it’s thing was planning on adding about 500 worms to help out.

But was wondering if the 65 gallon smart pot would be the best option for a couple plants or if it would be more productive to use 15 gallon smart pots per individual plant? I currently have all the soil in the 65 gallon if that helps any.

you'd be better to start a worm bin with the 500 worms if you don't already have one, and just put like 20 in your 65 gallon pot. that pot will be fine to do multiple plants in... just don't let it get out of control haha. give them space and room to breath by pruning them up when necessary. anticipate the growth of flower before you flip them.

 

[neef]

you'd be better to start a worm bin with the 500 worms if you don't already have one, and just put like 20 in your 65 gallon pot. that pot will be fine to do multiple plants in... just don't let it get out of control haha. give them space and room to breath by pruning them up when necessary. anticipate the growth of flower before you flip them.

I’ve got a urban worm bag going right now and they seem to love it figured I could transfer some of the population over to the plants. Can you go overkill on the amount of worms you use?
Unfortunately the plants took off and would be interfering with each other to much for my liking if I were to plant more then one in the 65 gallon. So I’ve now potted 1 plant in the 65 and the other 3 plants in 10 gallons each. I’m interested to see what the outcome will be as they all will have the same amount of veg time.

ShLUby Why didn’t you tell me that promix is so cheap!? I bought a bale of promix hp for 35 usd yesterday to start my soil for the next run/ veggie garden. Which pro mix do you use?

 

[neef]

Here’s updates pics of the garden after being transplanted into the living soil. The last 2 pics are of leaves that I thought were potassium deficient so I fed them a tea with kelp meal and molasses but it seems the leaves are getting worse. Is this a rookie mistake?

The first pic of the fan leaves was takin on Saturday the second was earlier today

 

[ShLUbY]

I’ve got a urban worm bag going right now and they seem to love it figured I could transfer some of the population over to the plants. Can you go overkill on the amount of worms you use?
Unfortunately the plants took off and would be interfering with each other to much for my liking if I were to plant more then one in the 65 gallon. So I’ve now potted 1 plant in the 65 and the other 3 plants in 10 gallons each. I’m interested to see what the outcome will be as they all will have the same amount of veg time.

ShLUby Why didn’t you tell me that promix is so cheap!? I bought a bale of promix hp for 35 usd yesterday to start my soil for the next run/ veggie garden. Which pro mix do you use?

when i buy a premix base like that, i prefer anything with peat AND coco, but i generally prefer to build my own base mix when I have components on hand (with peat and coco now, coco helps disrupt the hydrophobic nature of the peat). I have a mix with sunshine #4 peat and coco, comes with benes in it, and I added some pumice for more aeration. As usual 1/3 part compost as well.

 

[ShLUbY]

Here’s updates pics of the garden after being transplanted into the living soil. The last 2 pics are of leaves that I thought were potassium deficient so I fed them a tea with kelp meal and molasses but it seems the leaves are getting worse. Is this a rookie mistake?

The first pic of the fan leaves was takin on Saturday the second was earlier today

How long did you actually let the soil rest for after mixing? and what were they in prior to this mix and how were they being fed? I'm seeing a lot of symptoms all over those girls... need more info to diagnose anything accurately

I do think you can overdo the worms in terms of your growing containers... they'll decimate populations with that high of numbers in that small of an area. throw off the balance of the soil, and then it will take time to rebalance itself.... which is not what you want. adding a few in is fine.... 500... way too many.