320w QB vs 300w Vero COB, what do you choose?

[diyled]

That's not how it works. You can get the same efficiency with any of those strips. Just find the current at which each of them runs at the desired efficiency. Then simply compare them on price.

Samsung presents the Q series as more efficient by testing them at 40C instead of 65C for the F-series and by testing them at about a third of the watts (F-series is tested at 261% of the wattage of a Q-series strip).

For that efficiency level of the Q-series marketing to actually be economically viable, you need to be dealing with a electricity price of about 60cents per kwh. If you pay around 20 cents then running them at the tested current for the F-series is much more relevant.

Or in short, don't fall for marketing tricks.

The q series are slightly more efficient than the f series under 800ma and are 20% cheaper so if you include the extra 20% strips they should be a bit ahead...On paper.

I have both so ill be doing some PPFD measurements to see which one has the best numbers.

I get its all marketing. Q series give a low test current to get to the magic 200lm/w number and the max current given is way under the max per lm301b diode . Where the influx series test and max current is the same and is actually way over the 200ma max current per lm301b diode.

 

[nfhiggs]

The q series are slightly more efficient than the f series under 800ma and are 20% cheaper so if you include the extra 20% strips they should be a bit ahead...On paper.

I have both so ill be doing some PPFD measurements to see which one has the best numbers.

I get its all marketing. Q series give a low test current to get to the magic 200lm/w number and the max current given is way under the max per lm301b diode . Where the influx series test and max current is the same and is actually way over the 200ma max current per lm301b diode.

I believe the influx uses the LM301A which has a much higher max power rating than the LM301B. The influx is spec'd at 230 mA per diode which is well above the max current per the LM301B's data sheet.

Looking at the simulator, even running the influx09 strip at 450 mA you still don't break 160 lm/W efficacy whereas with the Q strips, if you run them at their max of 900 mA you still get >180 lm/W

Not really that impressed with the influx numbers.

 

[diyled]

I believe the influx uses the LM301A which has a much higher max power rating than the LM301B. The influx is spec'd at 230 mA per diode which is well above the max current per the LM301B's data sheet.

Looking at the simulator, even running the influx09 strip at 450 mA you still don't break 160 lm/W efficacy whereas with the Q strips, if you run them at their max of 900 mA you still get >180 lm/W

Not really that impressed with the influx numbers.

I thought that at 1st mate but then Random blame pointed out the new ones use the lm301b.Its the old influx in the simulator. Im sure it sates 301b it in the new datasheet.

I cant figure them out, the double row influx09 is 108 diodes where the single q series is only 40 so surely they should be even better than the q series. But the price scales to about the same per diode so maybe just a good double row f series replacement for 800ma-1.2a builds.

e2a page14.
https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resource/2018/03/Data_Sheet_H_inFlux_Rev.1.0.pdf

 

[wietefras]

The q series are slightly more efficient than the f series under 800ma and are 20% cheaper so if you include the extra 20% strips they should be a bit ahead...On paper.

When run at 450mA and 40C like the Q-series is tested at, the F-series is actually more efficient.

Like I said, the Q series is indeed slightly cheaper, but the F-series can process 20% more power at the same efficiency. So the price of (at the same efficiency and both single row) is actually pretty much equal.

When run at economically viable currents the Q-series isn't able to keep up though. It maxes out at 20W even and then you still need 18 of them to fill this 2'x6' space. Q-series would not be my choice for anything larger than 2'x2'.

So the Q and F series (single row) are on par for efficiency and price, but the F-series is much more versatile. You could use F-series strips to go the route of the Q-series with insane amounts of strips run at very low power. Or, more sensibly, you could go go for double row and get something more practical.

Double row F-series are cheaper by quite a margin too (9% to 18%).

 

[diyled]

Both have uses depending on budget imo. Let me get some solid data together and ill start a thread and we can compare them all. Ill get a few of the H influx strips too.

 

[ANC]

If you run a small cabinet with a low roof, go single row strips. For anything else, get doubles so you can get a deeper goldilocks zone with your light.

 

[wietefras]

If you run a small cabinet with a low roof, go single row strips. For anything else, get doubles so you can get a deeper goldilocks zone with your light.

Exactly. For very small grows it makes a little sense to go wild on many strips. Wall losses are your biggest concern there. Getting the strips low down could help reducing that somewhat. Also indeed less height needed.

Not sure how "budget" is applicable. As shown, there is no price difference between Q and F series single row. The double row F series are cheaper than single row. So if anything, that would be the "budget" option.

There are plenty of designs made by ledgardner: http://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/

 

[ANC]

It costs about 10% more to buy two 50W strips compared to 100W ones.
You will also need extra framing.

 

[nfhiggs]

I thought that at 1st mate but then Random blame pointed out the new ones use the lm301b.Its the old influx in the simulator. Im sure it sates 301b it in the new datasheet.

I cant figure them out, the double row influx09 is 108 diodes where the single q series is only 40 so surely they should be even better than the q series. But the price scales to about the same per diode so maybe just a good double row f series replacement for 800ma-1.2a builds.

e2a page14.
https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resource/2018/03/Data_Sheet_H_inFlux_Rev.1.0.pdf

I saw him mention those but I was not able to find any info on them at all.

 

[nfhiggs]

I thought that at 1st mate but then Random blame pointed out the new ones use the lm301b.Its the old influx in the simulator. Im sure it sates 301b it in the new datasheet.

I cant figure them out, the double row influx09 is 108 diodes where the single q series is only 40 so surely they should be even better than the q series. But the price scales to about the same per diode so maybe just a good double row f series replacement for 800ma-1.2a builds.

e2a page14.
https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resource/2018/03/Data_Sheet_H_inFlux_Rev.1.0.pdf

Thanks for the link. Interesting - similar light levels to the F series at test current.

 

[nfhiggs]

but the F-series can process 20% more power at the same efficiency.

No.... Running at the same current, same power, same CCT, the same sized strips come up almost identical in both efficacy and lumen output. Run them side by side on the simulator. The double row F series is a different kettle of fish, of course.

 

[DazeHazy]

3 x FB24B on a 320W 48V driver will cover 3x5. I use that much over 2x4 trays, and the canopies are a bit wider
It will cost a bit more but you could replace them 4ft strips with 2ft ones so you can drive all off one driver to save money.
So you would need 8 of them to cover 2 x 6 with the same amount of light. you are looking at 400W draw for 8 50W strips.

A 480W HLG is $150
A 10-pack of the 2 ft 50W strips is $250.
You can connect all 10 strips or keep two for a veg area on a 200W driver.

Thanks ANC. I had the first configuration with 9 strips in mind at the beginning but the second one seems to work better with 8 2ft F564B strips. Last question if you don't mind: am I looking at the 480H-C1400 or the 480H-C3500? I intend to wire them in series using U lengths as the heat sinks. I realise there are probably easier ways if I were to do a 4x4 or 3x5 or somethings but I'll be building a custom and more stealthy cupboard instead of a tent and think this shape will work well for 3 2x2ft plants.

 

[wietefras]

No.... Running at the same current, same power, same CCT, the same sized strips come up almost identical in both efficacy and lumen output. Run them side by side on the simulator. The double row F series is a different kettle of fish, of course.

I did, but you made the mistake of using the same current. I compared at equal efficacy.

Compared the Q series tested scenario of 450mA and 40C, the F-series could deal with 540mA at the same efficacy (9.9W vs 12W). With higher temperatures the F-series pulls even more away.

 

[knight mare]

Here you go influx H data https://www.samsung.com/led/lighting/led-modules/industrial-light-module/h-influx/

 

[ANC]

You will need 9 x +/-1.12A =10.8A Which leaves you with an odd driver
I would maybe split them up, 6 sticks 3Px2S and 3 sticks 3 parallel
The 6 would go on HVGC-320-3500B $110
3 would go on HLG-185-54B $55
So we are still within $15 of initial rough estimate price.

Maybe someone could just doublecheck. I am stoned as shit.

 

[DazeHazy]

You will need 9 x +/-1.12A =10.8A Which leaves you with an odd driver
I would maybe split them up, 6 sticks 3Px2S and 3 sticks 3 parallel
The 6 would go on HVGC-320-3500B $110
3 would go on HLG-185-54B $55
So we are still within $15 of initial rough estimate price.

Maybe someone could just doublecheck. I am stoned as shit.

I'd be happy to do the 8 strip config split 50/50 over 2 drivers even if it cost a bit more. The modular build is nice in case I want to reconfig, mix lights or partition off half the space for veg and bloom.

 

[nfhiggs]

450mA and 40C, the F-series could deal with 540mA at the same efficacy

Those currents do not result in equal efficacy:


Not even close, really. Maybe we are not looking at the same simulator?
https://www.samsung.com/led/support/tools/engine-calculator/

Here they are at exactly equal efficacy, with the temp at 40C:



If you are using the LED calculator rather than the Engine calculator (and you must be to get those results), then you are just guessing as to what voltage and flux bins are used on the strips - Samsung has not published that information to my knowledge. After playing around with the LED calc, and comparing the results to the engine simulator, it seems to indicate that what they are using on the strips falls between the bins - LM561C A1/S6 seems to be the closest, but not quite - its higher on the low end but lower at the top end. None of them fit precisely. Same with the LM301B - the AZ/SK comes closest, but not quite a match.

I trust Samsung knows the performance specs of their finished products, and so I would tend to trust the Engine simulator more than guessing at binning combinations.

 

[nfhiggs]

No.... Running at the same current, same power, same CCT, the same sized strips come up almost identical in both efficacy and lumen output. Run them side by side on the simulator. The double row F series is a different kettle of fish, of course.

The lumen outputs are very close, the efficacy favors the Q strips, but not a huge amount.

 

[DazeHazy]

I have just built another COB fixture after doing some strip fixtures. Strips are so much easier. Better light distribution too.

Wiring is much less work with strips and some aluminum U-channel is enough to serve as a heat sink/frame.

480W seems like overkill. Also W/sqft doesn't account for efficiency. Normally we work with about 800umol/s per m2 or 75umol/s per sqft. So for 2'x6' you'd need 900umol/s in total. Or use a bit more if you want to correct for wall losses.

For the Vero COBs you'd need about 400W to produce 900umol/s. Using the more efficient Samsung F strips @1050mA, you get the same amount of light from 370W. I'd use 8 of those double row F strips (about 49W a piece) and divide them per four over two 200W drivers (using 380W total).

The two 200W drivers @1050mA would be the 185H-C1050's and are suitable for wiring 4 strips per driver in series right?

 

[wietefras]

The two 200W drivers @1050mA would be the 185H-C1050's and are suitable for wiring 4 strips per driver in series right?

Yes exactly