lighting - the truth & the facts

Johnny Lawrence

Johnny Lawrence

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
@skorpio777 you are not alone in being confused! Any time a manufacturer puts a word in front of "power" (like comparable power) it's marketing and only serves to muddy the water. (It's meant to muddy the water.) I have no problem reading through the BS and the hype and they still got me, three times! When I first started growing, I didn't like the thought of needing so much energy to grow indoors... I did some research and, despite a very skeptical conversation with a caretaker/dispensary owner, I bought a first gen LED... It was great for vegging but I never even attempted to flower with it... A little more research and about 300 bucks later, I purchased a second-gen, 150 watt LED to flower one auto... During the first flower cycle a driver went out taking out half of the array... I finished the grow with a high powered CFL and immediately ordered a 600 watt HPS, which I still use today (6 years later) The six months before I made the move to HPS were somewhat disappointing but a valuable lesson to me.

I still believe LEDs are the future, but, despite the obvious comparisons to the digitization of cameras, there are more real physical limitations to digitizing this process. (Digital cameras read input, where the laws of physics have less restraint on the process... LED lights output light (power)... While physical laws apply in both processes, the laws relating to output power are more challenging... Added to all the power complexity of the issue, digitization of the light provided to the plant, is still more focused on overcoming output power challenges, limiting the ability provide an optimal solution from the plant's perspective. I am encouraged by the people focused on optimizing the digitization of the light source, regardless of cost, because this is the only way the technology will improve enough to match the performance of established technologies... Once they hit that point, then they can focus on optimizing the cost so the economics make sense. Best of luck!
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^ Science!

LMAO
 
HotKarl2

HotKarl2

Well-Known Member
skorpio777 said:
how would you run a driver outside the tent ?
i was led to believe there isnt a lot of heat from these anyway
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There is almost no heat from the diodes themselves, but you want to keep the lights about 18 inches min. from buds during flower Any heat generated by the light goes out the top where it is passively cooled by the heatsink. The heatsink on this light gets pretty hot if you have it turned up all the way, still a lot less heat than an HPS and like ProjectInfo said, you can mount the driver out of the tent which would remove even more heat from your space.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Johnny Lawrence said:
^ Science!

LMAO
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For LEDS....If it ain't COB, it's over priced and over rated!

A tent is a perfect place for LED COB systems.

Once you go open and tall space....DE HID oe old school 1K's will be better...

You put a 1K in a 5x5 and 600's in a 4x4. Hell, I run 1k's in an old 4x4 used for breeding....
 
projectinfo

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
HotKarl2 said:
The HLG-600H Does NOT put out the equivalent heat to a SE 1000w HPS. Maybe only about 30% as much from experience and around 50% as much as a 600wHPS. Just FYI. I now have to run a small oil heater in my 10x15' tent. But I can do a summer run with these lights. The reason there is less heat is the LEDs are way more efficient than the HID/HPS. More energy output as light and less as heat.

Love those DIY lights man.
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Nice, yeah I've noticed less heat for more results. I just figure leds are more efficient so you don't need as much power as a 1000w

I have 3 tables 2x4 ft each. And each of my 2x4 light are ran by hlg 480h-24a

So advertised 480w each but in sure it's less I should get a killowatt wall plug
 
projectinfo

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
For LEDS....If it ain't COB, it's over priced and over rated!

A tent is a perfect place for LED COB systems.

Once you go open and tall space....DE HID oe old school 1K's will be better...

You put a 1K in a 5x5 and 600's in a 4x4. Hell, I run 1k's in an old 4x4 used for breeding....
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Yeah my strips I can get to a few inches away , excellent for tents I love all these diy led builds on here its pretty simple :)
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
skorpio777 said:
how would you run a driver outside the tent ?
i was led to believe there isnt a lot of heat from these anyway
Click to expand...
Just to touch on the heat thing.

When converting a W of electricity to light it creates a W of heat. That's a constant.
Now this is where LED cheats a bit as it using less power for the same equivalent light. Eg a 450 w led will create about the same amount of light as a 600w MH. Saving you 150w in heat.
Also a LED converts electricity directly to light where as a MH heats a gas. So a MH has the Converted W heat plus the heat from the gas.
So LED's W for W run cooler than HID. But they still create heat.

Now heat is not necessarily a bad thing. I need the heat a MH/HPS puts out in winter as it saves me the cost of running a heater. So your own personal environment plays a part.
 
skorpio777

skorpio777

Member
projectinfo said:
Same amount of heat, just spread out over more leds rather than a hps bulb.

The driver usually comes on a long power cord. Just put it outside of your room and run a wire into your tent to your led. The driver is what powers your leds.
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wow !!! some set up, i would not even know where to start. thanks anyway i need something more simple than that
 
skorpio777

skorpio777

Member
Lucky Luke said:
Just to touch on the heat thing.

When converting a W of electricity to light it creates a W of heat. That's a constant.
Now this is where LED cheats a bit as it using less power for the same equivalent light. Eg a 450 w led will create about the same amount of light as a 600w MH. Saving you 150w in heat.
Also a LED converts electricity directly to light where as a MH heats a gas. So a MH has the Converted W heat plus the heat from the gas.
So LED's W for W run cooler than HID. But they still create heat.

Now heat is not necessarily a bad thing. I need the heat a MH/HPS puts out in winter as it saves me the cost of running a heater. So your own personal environment plays a part.
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great info thanks brother !
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
skorpio777 said:
thanks i just had a peek but will read the whole thread later when im finished work....
BTW why to hell arent the chinese companies jumping on this instead of putting out shit LED units ??
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I think all the parts are made in China...They just don't seem to want to build good solid stuff. I'm guessing its easier to just be cheap crap.
 
SonsOfAvery

SonsOfAvery

Well-Known Member
skorpio777 said:
thanks i just had a peek but will read the whole thread later when im finished work....
BTW why to hell arent the chinese companies jumping on this instead of putting out shit LED units ??
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If you buy a product and it doesn't break, then you won''t need to buy another one...the capitalists don't want that.
Generally speaking most things now days are made to fall apart or break in order to get you buying more often. Some companies (apple for example) purposefully break your old stuff to make you buy new ones. And somehow this deemed acceptable.
Also, it's cheaper and easier to mass produced shit products.

As for the lights, I'd recommend going with Quantum boards or cobs, QB's will probably give a more even spreads of light than cobs.
I'm in the UK too, and I built my light fixture using some TCI strips purchased via eBay. My build is in that thread posted above too.
 
Go go n chill

Go go n chill

Well-Known Member
projectinfo said:
Same amount of heat, just spread out over more leds rather than a hps bulb.

The driver usually comes on a long power cord. Just put it outside of your room and run a wire into your tent to your led. The driver is what powers your leds.
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I beg to differ on the heat statement. I’ve got a DIY 4 cob led at 1400ma, 1000w HPS AND 2 450mh & a Vipar600 AND 2 mars 300....I turned all of them on and the COBS and Chinese LED fixtures are the coolest by atleast 10*f. Atleast. The Cobs make great flower the Vipar600 is good for a beginner if you can find one cheap and used. Just my opinion
 
skorpio777

skorpio777

Member
Go go n chill said:
I beg to differ on the heat statement. I’ve got a DIY 4 cob led at 1400ma, 1000w HPS AND 2 450mh & a Vipar600 AND 2 mars 300....I turned all of them on and the COBS and Chinese LED fixtures are the coolest by atleast 10*f. Atleast. The Cobs make great flower the Vipar600 is good for a beginner if you can find one cheap and used. Just my opinion
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vipar 600 ? ..... for flower ?
 
Go go n chill

Go go n chill

Well-Known Member
skorpio777 said:
vipar 600 ? ..... for flower ?
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Yes, mine is the reflector series it has the veg and bloom buttons. I’m not saying it is the best light, it is a good light.... the color spectrum from what I’ve seen helps produce frosty bud but not SUPER dense. I’ve never used the mh and hps fixtures. I plugged them in and my set up could not handle the heat. I grow in closets and the heat was to much for me to get rid of.
How much money do you want to spend?
 
projectinfo

projectinfo

Well-Known Member
Go go n chill said:
I beg to differ on the heat statement. I’ve got a DIY 4 cob led at 1400ma, 1000w HPS AND 2 450mh & a Vipar600 AND 2 mars 300....I turned all of them on and the COBS and Chinese LED fixtures are the coolest by atleast 10*f. Atleast. The Cobs make great flower the Vipar600 is good for a beginner if you can find one cheap and used. Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Go go n chill said:
I beg to differ on the heat statement. I’ve got a DIY 4 cob led at 1400ma, 1000w HPS AND 2 450mh & a Vipar600 AND 2 mars 300....I turned all of them on and the COBS and Chinese LED fixtures are the coolest by atleast 10*f. Atleast. The Cobs make great flower the Vipar600 is good for a beginner if you can find one cheap and used. Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Maybe your Chinese lights aren't actually as strong a light as advertised. So less power = less heat?

And if you had 1000w cobs it'd be pretty hot, but yeah leds are more efficient but they still do create heat
 
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