cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Well said. Plus rep.
victims of feminism support thread
- Thread starter UncleBuck
- Start date
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
would if i was still growing or he was still moving, but he ain't and i ain't.Bet you wont again tho
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
@cannabineer did you just sorta claim that antifascists are basically fascists? Or was that screed personalized to the guy it was directed to? Rebuking bigots does not make one a bigot.
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's what he was implying at all, I think it was personalized.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
he's not even getting his history right either. 'the big lie' was what nazis accused jews and bolsheviks and the english of doing. not a technique that the nazis claimed to be doing.
he not only tried to call me a nazi for rebuking a bigot, but he revealed himself to be pretty ignorant of history while doing so. and accidentally painted himself as a nazi when history is recorded correctly.
Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing a pedophile accusation is next?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
First there needs to be established bigotry. I've seen no proof of that. Buck's "evidence" points to impassioned political speech and personal bias, not bigotry.
Furthermore, his examples are from 2008-2009 and only in this subforum.
Finally, I have known GWN personally for years and have not experienced him showing any bigotry at this time.
If I were to use the same sort of argument to authority that Buck used in calling Baldrick "a good person", then I tell you that GWN and lokie are fine upstanding people as well. If you believe one and not the other, you are using a double standard.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
someone said "oabama should be running from lions in fucked up africa" and gwn defended the guy. bare, naked, indefensible racism.
gwn started a thread about a fucking youtube video claiming obama was a secret kenyan muslim. a youtube video.
then there is the fried chicken and basketball meme. just off the top of my head.
but go ahead, accuse a jew of peddling "the big lie" in order to defend racism. that was exactly what hitler did.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I never called you an antisemite. What I am observing is that you're using the same arguments the Nazis did. As a Jew, are you not uniquely appalled to use their technique?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
except you have it backwards. 'the big lie' was not a nazi technique. hitler accused jews of using 'the big lie'. now you are accusing me, a jew, of using 'the big lie' in order to defend your racist buddy.
and i have documentation of gwn's racism.
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
He said you use the same tactics as the Nazis.
Do you ever stop the intellectual dishonesty? It's a really pathetic debate strategy.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
did the nazis call out bigots like GWN?
nope.
cannabineer accused me of using 'the big lie' and called that a nazi technique. 'the big lie' was something the nazis accused the jews of doing though. look it up, cupcake.
maybe it will dawn on you that cannabineer is defending a racist by accusing a jew of peddling 'the big lie'. just like hitler did.
anyhoo, ball is in your court. i have led you to water. i can;t force you to drink it though
Singlemalt
Well-Known Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Big lie
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Big Lie (disambiguation).
A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
Contents
The source of the Big Lie technique is this passage, taken from Chapter 10 of James Murphy's translation of Mein Kampf:
But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.
All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[1]
Thus, according to Hitler, the "Big Lie" was a propaganda technique typically used by "the Jews".[1]
Goebbels's use of the expression
Later, Joseph Goebbels put forth a slightly different theory which has come to be more commonly associated with the expression "big lie". Goebbels wrote the following paragraph in an article dated 12 January 1941, 16 years after Hitler's first use of the phrase. The article, titled Aus Churchills Lügenfabrik (English: "From Churchill's Lie Factory") was published in Die Zeit ohne Beispiel.
The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.[2]
Holocaust
Jeffrey Herf maintains that Goebbels and the Nazis used the Big Lie to turn long-standing anti-semitism into mass murder.[3] Herf argues that the Big Lie was a narrative of an innocent, besieged Germany striking back at an "international Jewry", which it said started World War I. The propaganda repeated over and over the conspiracy that Jews were the real powers in Britain, Russia and the U.S. It went on to state that the Jews had begun a "war of extermination" against Germany, and so Germany had a duty and a right to "exterminate" and "annihilate" the Jews in self-defense.[4]
Usage in Hitler's psychological profile
The phrase was also used in a report prepared during the war by the United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile:[5][6]
His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.[7]
The above quote appears in the Nizkor Project's site[8] though the source document is not cited. The quote does not appear in the report, A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler: His Life and Legend, by Walter C. Langer with collaboration by Henry Murray, Ernst Kris and Bertram Lewin,[9] which is available from the US National Archives, though it does appear, unreferenced, on page 57 in Langer's ebook by the same title (without mention of the collaborators on his previous work).[10] A somewhat similar quote — "never to admit a fault or wrong; never to accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time; blame that enemy for everything that goes wrong; take advantage of every opportunity to raise a political whirlwind" — appears on page 219 in a different report also available from the US National Archive, namely, Analysis of the Personality of Adolph Hitler: With Predictions of His Future Behaviour and Suggestions for Dealing with Him Now and After Germany's Surrender, by Henry A. Murray, October 1943[11] though Murray's work is neither referenced in Langer's ebook nor in the Hitler's Source-Book[12] compiled by Langer and upon which his ebook heavily depends.
See also
Big lie
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Big Lie (disambiguation).
A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
Contents
- 1 Hitler's use of the expression
- 2 Goebbels's use of the expression
- 3 Holocaust
- 4 Usage in Hitler's psychological profile
- 5 See also
- 6 Notes
- 7 References
- 8 External links
The source of the Big Lie technique is this passage, taken from Chapter 10 of James Murphy's translation of Mein Kampf:
But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.
All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[1]
Thus, according to Hitler, the "Big Lie" was a propaganda technique typically used by "the Jews".[1]
Goebbels's use of the expression
Later, Joseph Goebbels put forth a slightly different theory which has come to be more commonly associated with the expression "big lie". Goebbels wrote the following paragraph in an article dated 12 January 1941, 16 years after Hitler's first use of the phrase. The article, titled Aus Churchills Lügenfabrik (English: "From Churchill's Lie Factory") was published in Die Zeit ohne Beispiel.
The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.[2]
Holocaust
Jeffrey Herf maintains that Goebbels and the Nazis used the Big Lie to turn long-standing anti-semitism into mass murder.[3] Herf argues that the Big Lie was a narrative of an innocent, besieged Germany striking back at an "international Jewry", which it said started World War I. The propaganda repeated over and over the conspiracy that Jews were the real powers in Britain, Russia and the U.S. It went on to state that the Jews had begun a "war of extermination" against Germany, and so Germany had a duty and a right to "exterminate" and "annihilate" the Jews in self-defense.[4]
Usage in Hitler's psychological profile
The phrase was also used in a report prepared during the war by the United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile:[5][6]
His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.[7]
The above quote appears in the Nizkor Project's site[8] though the source document is not cited. The quote does not appear in the report, A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler: His Life and Legend, by Walter C. Langer with collaboration by Henry Murray, Ernst Kris and Bertram Lewin,[9] which is available from the US National Archives, though it does appear, unreferenced, on page 57 in Langer's ebook by the same title (without mention of the collaborators on his previous work).[10] A somewhat similar quote — "never to admit a fault or wrong; never to accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time; blame that enemy for everything that goes wrong; take advantage of every opportunity to raise a political whirlwind" — appears on page 219 in a different report also available from the US National Archive, namely, Analysis of the Personality of Adolph Hitler: With Predictions of His Future Behaviour and Suggestions for Dealing with Him Now and After Germany's Surrender, by Henry A. Murray, October 1943[11] though Murray's work is neither referenced in Langer's ebook nor in the Hitler's Source-Book[12] compiled by Langer and upon which his ebook heavily depends.
See also
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
thank you.
too many people think that 'the big lie' was what hitler and goebbels perpetrated on the german people. it was actually what they told the german people that the jews were doing. they said jews caused WW1 and were trying to undo the german people, it led them to justify their genocide of the jews to themselves eventually.
take note, @cannabineer
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
No. the Big Lie was described in Mein Kampf as a way to discredit Jews. It was a fundamentally, characteristically Nazi bit of moral gymnastics, and as a Jew yourself I'd think you'd find their argument repugnant, not seek to appropriate it.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hitler-on-the-big-lie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
~edit~ I see that Malt posted the wikipedia text.
It explains that Hitler and his cohort claimed the Jews were the source of the Big Lie. So it was and remains a Nazi technique.
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
All I'm saying is that there doesn't seem to be a strawman you wont build up to knock right down.
Your arguments would have more merit if you didn't talk so much bullshit all the time.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
But, you are not a Jew.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
hitler: the jews are telling big lies, don't believe them. now let's go be racist
you: buck (a jew) is telling a big lie about gwn, don't believe him. now let's go coddle the racist
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
tell me more about how the nazis loved to rebuke bigots.
SneekyNinja
Well-Known Member
Again, you're using a false equivalence to try prove a point, which by default discredits the point you're trying to make.
"I came for a battle of wits, but found I was standing completely alone"