does anyone have side by side pictures of defoliated vs undefoliated

[charface]

The whole problem is in the way defoliation is defined by the membership.

The progressive removal of suckers and branching to the point of only running the mains from well topped plants. Is not defoliation.
It does produce massive buds, with very dense structure and large yields, if the right strains are applied to this.

Removing the stem and other heavy working leaves, right down to the leaving only the buds sugar leaves, is over doing it = defoliation.
This produces smaller denser budding with far less bag appeal. Yield by weight can/does increase some. Or, by overdoing it - the way many do - reduce the yield and the bud size!

These 2 get confused, way too much.

Removing fans that block buds from light is only allowing the bud to ripen better. Too much of this will give you the above results. Many simply tuck the leaf under.

I, as the time nears (last week to days). Begin to remove some blocking leaves to have a more even ripening. I don't see this as any "defoliation".
Removing sucker branching = Pruning. Not defoliating.

Rule of "thumb". Do not "defoliate" as above.

I have never "defoliated" but I agree with what you are saying.

With my scrog I remove way more leafs than would be normal in a standard grow and The yield is good.
In fact I was surprised how aggressively You can "Prune"

Again, I leave plenty leaf, maybe too much Mostly because I'm afraid to cross the point of diminishing returns.

If I don't aggressively and progressively prune even the lower portion of the main buds fall way behind the tips and that's with strong light.

I don't have a point, sorry

Edit, do I leave more leaves? or do I leave more leafs?

 

[Cold$moke]

I have never "defoliated" but I agree with what you are saying.

With my scrog I remove way more leafs than would be normal in a standard grow and The yield is good.
In fact I was surprised how aggressively You can "Prune"

Again, I leave plenty leaf, maybe too much Mostly because I'm afraid to cross the point of diminishing returns.

If I don't aggressively and progressively prune even the lower portion of the main buds fall way behind the tips and that's with strong light.

I don't have a point, sorry

Edit, do I leave more leaves? or do I leave more leafs?

I see what you have to say though

I too would pull old leaves and anything in the dark mostly for airflow.

But with this one plant i have it EXPLODED with way too many branches and way too many leaves.
I absolutely had to deleaf it some ti get some air and light in there
I pulled a grocery store bag worth of leaves...

But... i leave all the MAIN fans and pluck the secondary fan leaf of the secondary branches only and the bottom

By the next day all the weak growth that was in the bush is now standing up and happy as hell.

But im No expert nor phd anything and my oppinons are based on my first hand experience

 

[Kingrow1]

When an older leaf becomes a sink not a source it is ok to cut it but by that time the plant will cut it for you.

Ya there is mucho science if you google the words 'source to sink'.

Thats being helpfull

 

[Cold$moke]

What about the original fan leaves that are way old and dull
But still green and alive?
Should they be cut?

When an older leaf becomes a sink not a source it is ok to cut it but by that time the plant will cut it for you.

Ya there is mucho science if you google the words 'source to sink'.

Thats being helpfull

 

[Cold$moke]

My fan leaves almost never fall off unless something is messed up.

Ive never found falling leaves even during my flush? And the plants are yellowd up?

 

[Kingrow1]

What about the original fan leaves that are way old and dull
But still green and alive?
Should they be cut?

Subjective, some say yes some say no, i keep everything but i grow different style.

More your own choice but Drwho gave a good write up and i liked the idea suggested to pluck two and leave two

 

[Cold$moke]

Truthfully i try to keep leaves as long as i can too
Because i use them as plant health monitors

And i usually try to bend the leaves first as well.

And under my scrog net everything usually goes

At the same time i have plucked them hard before leaving just the top 3 leaves and i still had nice harvests

Thanks for the replies @Kingrow1

 

[Cold$moke]

Sorry guys i should point out that im a very visual
Learner .

If i can see it i can do it type.

Feel free to post up any pics as id love to expand my horizons

 

[Lucky Luke]

I got a pound out of a 3.5 x 4 with a 600, should of pulled more but I flipped to early. You can see all the space I didn't use. I trimmed and pruned but I certainly didn't defoliate. I really don't know why people would remove all the leaves for. Seems to be just a stoner cannabis thing. I live in a rural area and I don't know any farmer indoor or out that does it to any crops.

98% of us train, trim, prune, etc to some extent but theres lots of threads already on those..
3 a light defoliate I think but there a scam.

 

[Cold$moke]

Im going to have to rename a new thread if i do this
I just see people's post saying things like dont pull a single solar panel off ect ect

I know what your saying as i have been growing for 14 years

I would think it would be silly to think you could pull EVERY leaf off because the leaves are attached to the new growth.

But i have done a little bit of every thing.
To pruning hard and soft .
But i have always had to prune somthing

This is why i dont like it when people just say not to is all.

But when i cant see theough.my plant i have to trim lol

 

[Lucky Luke]

Im going to have to rename a new thread if i do this
I just see people's post saying things like dont pull a single solar panel off ect ect

I know what your saying as i have been growing for 14 years

I would think it would be silly to think you could pull EVERY leaf off because the leaves are attached to the new growth.

But i have done a little bit of every thing.
To pruning hard and soft .
But i have always had to prune somthing

This is why i dont like it when people just say not to is all.

But when i cant see theough.my plant i have to trim lol

People say no to defoliation not many to trimming and pruning.

 

[Cold$moke]

Ok that makes sense

Cause i was just looking at my plants and was thinking there is no way i cant trim them lol

People say no to defoliation not many to trimming and pruning.

 

[eyelid]

Defoliation implies extreme machete action, leaving behind a witless stick that looks like it's bound for a wood chipper. It's a lousy term. Think of Vietnam

At times it's customary to vigorously prune up to 1/3 of a landscape plant at one sitting. Selective pruning is called a thinning cut. Remove entire shit branches and snip the wimpy side node starts, that'll provide less than golf balls. But aim for green beer bottles, evenly, every 6" or less. Has to be the right strain, some are just too viney.

Be cautious with scrog netting and folding everything under. Canopy easily becomes a flat tabletop with little light penetration below it. Each strain has a sweet spot for how many colas work in your system. Shape your plants deliberately earlier, then allow colas to grow up some just before full flowering, if you're interested in max canopy density.

 

[eyelid]

Think Fargo

 

[Cold$moke]

Good post @eyelid

 

[ANC]

Every time you let your plants get too dry you will lose leaves at the bottom of the plant after they turn yellow very fast.
Let it go further and the yellow leaves will be randomly found in the plant, unlike the pale yellow all over look of nitrogen def. You will also see the results of pH extremes.

 

[Cold$moke]

In rwdc? Must be why i dont lose any leafs im in hydro lol

Every time you let your plants get too dry you will lose leaves at the bottom of the plant after they turn yellow very fast.
Let it go further and the yellow leaves will be randomly found in the plant, unlike the pale yellow all over look of nitrogen def. You will also see the results of pH extremes.

 

[ANC]

I was trying to add to what Kingrow was saying, as underwatering is normally the first reason you loose leaves.
This would certainly differ in DWC or recirculating.

 

[Cold$moke]

Thats must be why i have to prune

aka selective defoliation?
de·fo·li·ate

dēˈfōlēˌāt/

verb

remove leaves from (a tree, plant, or area of land), for agricultural purposes or as a military tactic.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Thats must be why i have to prune

aka selective defoliation?
de·fo·li·ate

dēˈfōlēˌāt/

verb

remove leaves from (a tree, plant, or area of land), for agricultural purposes or as a military tactic.

You cannot really selectively defoliate. That's why we use proper terms for. If you do a horticultural cause you wont be taught how to defoliate a plant. You will be taught how to trim, prune,etc.
The meaning is in the word itself. Deciduous trees naturally defoliate them selves. We grow a plant its time we stopped using stoner terms and use horticultural ones. Leach instead of flush- another old stoner term and not found in horticulture.

But as I said earlier, I believe 3 a light defoliate a few times in the cycle. I would be interested in seeing a side by side of a defoliated plant vs a normally grown, trimmed and trained one vs one left alone.