Buds quality LEDs VS HPS

[see4]

That is cheaper than I expected for all that.


Makes me want to build a small one for a 3x3 veg tent and check it out if it’s only a couple hundred dollars.

The lamp I have that will need replacement soon is my 8 bulb 2’ t-5.

Going to try my 315 in there but it’s a good place for playing with new toys.

This thread needs pics. So here is my veg tent now. What would you suggest for this 3x3 with seedlings to 6 week veg plants?

Preferably something that can grow and flower a full cycle if desired.

It actually has an 8/2 and a 2/2. So 10 aprox. 25 watt bulbs covering all but the left and right 4” or so.

View attachment 4055624

Every 10 day’s or so a new seed is planted and one goes to the flower room.

i can send you the links of where to get the gear.. essentially you need the quantum boards, heatsinks, meanwell drivers, wago connectors, plugs and waterproof connectors and some wires... pretty basic stuff.. and im no electrician, not by a long shot. but i did stay at a holiday inn.

 

[Stephenj37826]

True, it's fine that people try to sell stuff, but I feel it's not OK to post clear falsehoods in order to sell stuff and that just happens too often. Like when he posts that HPS only gets 2.1umol/s/W for the first 100 hours. Well that part might be true since it does drop a bit steeper in the first 100 hours, but to pretend that after that 100 hours the efficiency dropped to 90% or 85% is just a blatant lie (or idiocy) and any self respecting grow light seller should have known this. When I call him out and show an actual datasheet chart showing the benchmark 1000W HPS bulb "only" dropping to 95% after 10,000 hours he actually still defends his claim/lie by pretending color shift is what is losing the light. Uhm ... yeah.


Sad thing is that people here actually cheer him on for posting it. They don't care that it's a lie. The lie fits their their agenda too so it's all good.

How many times was that bulb cycled in that lumen maintenance chart as well. Everyone knows startup is what causes lumen depreciation.


I posted what I saw from another forum. Take it or leave it. Do you see that I posted the guys name and all that? He works for Nanolux. We are arranging with a commercial grower for greenpower bulbs to be pulled at 3,6,9 and 12 months to see if what that employee says is true. Lumen maintenance has no use here. I have personally tested bulbs with a radiospectrometer and saw color shift with my own two eyes. I have tested a DE that was about 8 months old and compared it to a new one and I can confirm with a certainty that the spectrum was indeed different.

Do you have proof that what the employee stated is false? I'm not saying it's true either but I'm not calling you a liar like you are me.

I could've as easily posted just what he said instead of the pic. Why did I do that? Because I was making sure that it wasn't my statement. Just brought up curiosity in me is all.

If you think for one second that companies like Gavita won't bullshit you, you are nieve. I've sat and watched one of the owners of Gavita tell people there fixture is 2100 umol output on the 1000 watt setting. As a matter of fact he told me that. Well we all know that's not true. They are 2100 umol at the bulb. They are 1850ish coming from the luminaire.

Now that you've went out of your way to call me a liar post your sphere data showing the UMOL maintenance of a DE fixture over the course of a year.

Also follow this link to sphere results of DE fixtures that where seasoned for 100 hrs. I've seen numbers in the 1850s brand new. So why the discrepancy?

I still call it inconclusive at this point. Lighting laboratories don't lie as far as I know. Unlike most we are going to put up the thousands of dollars it takes for these tests to be done.

I honestly don't need to "sell" our product to anyone. We are sold out have been and will be. Kinda stupid to try and drum up buisness that we can't handle don't you think? I'm here to learn and for the education myself.

http://www.phantomballast.com/de-fixtures-comparison-testing

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

True, it's fine that people try to sell stuff, but I feel it's not OK to post clear falsehoods in order to sell stuff and that just happens too often. Like when he posts that HPS only gets 2.1umol/s/W for the first 100 hours. Well that part might be true since it does drop a bit steeper in the first 100 hours, but to pretend that after that 100 hours the efficiency dropped to 90% or 85% is just a blatant lie (or idiocy) and any self respecting grow light seller should have known this. When I call him out and show an actual datasheet chart showing the benchmark 1000W HPS bulb "only" dropping to 95% after 10,000 hours he actually still defends his claim/lie by pretending color shift is what is losing the light. Uhm ... yeah.

Sad thing is that people here actually cheer him on for posting it. They don't care that it's a lie. The lie fits their their agenda too so it's all good.

Well I definitely agree. None of my posted proof even got a comment. Just more justification of cob purchases.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

i can send you the links of where to get the gear.. essentially you need the quantum boards, heatsinks, meanwell drivers, wago connectors, plugs and waterproof connectors and some wires... pretty basic stuff.. and im no electrician, not by a long shot. but i did stay at a holiday inn.

I’m good for now. But thank you I may pm you for a list sometime. Thanks again!

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

How many times was that bulb cycled in that lumen maintenance chart as well. Everyone knows startup is what causes lumen depreciation.


I posted what I saw from another forum. Take it or leave it. Do you see that I posted the guys name and all that? He works for Nanolux. We are arranging with a commercial grower for greenpower bulbs to be pulled at 3,6,9 and 12 months to see if what that employee says is true. Lumen maintenance has no use here. I have personally tested bulbs with a radiospectrometer and saw color shift with my own two eyes. I have tested a DE that was about 8 months old and compared it to a new one and I can confirm with a certainty that the spectrum was indeed different.

Do you have proof that what the employee stated is false? I'm not saying it's true either but I'm not calling you a liar like you are me.

I could've as easily posted just what he said instead of the pic. Why did I do that? Because I was making sure that it wasn't my statement. Just brought up curiosity in me is all.

If you think for one second that companies like Gavita won't bullshit you, you are nieve. I've sat and watched one of the owners of Gavita tell people there fixture is 2100 umol output on the 1000 watt setting. As a matter of fact he told me that. Well we all know that's not true. They are 2100 umol at the bulb. They are 1850ish coming from the luminaire.

Now that you've went out of your way to call me a liar post your sphere data showing the UMOL maintenance of a DE fixture over the course of a year.

Also follow this link to sphere results of DE fixtures that where seasoned for 100 hrs. I've seen numbers in the 1850s brand new. So why the discrepancy?

I still call it inconclusive at this point. Lighting laboratories don't lie as far as I know. Unlike most we are going to put up the thousands of dollars it takes for these tests to be done.

I honestly don't need to "sell" our product to anyone. We are sold out have been and will be. Kinda stupid to try and drum up buisness that we can't handle don't you think? I'm here to learn and for the education myself.

http://www.phantomballast.com/de-fixtures-comparison-testingView attachment 4056419

Do you design and build your lights using 3rd party data too?

First you say the lighting companies lie then you put up Phantom’s testing.

And I notice Hortilux bulbs and sun system reflectors are missing from the list. Wonder if Hortilux is best?

What was your point again? Oh yeah you are so successful and righteous you don’t need anyone’s business anymore.

Things will change for you. You have forgotten the first rule of customer service.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Light companies and all companies skew numbers or use omission to help sell their products.

Here is an independent test from Growers house with different results.

https://growershouse.com/blog/1000w-double-ended-de-bulb-lamp-comparison-review-test-including-philips-gavita-ushio-hortilux/

 

[Stephenj37826]

Light companies and all companies skew numbers or use omission to help sell their products.

Here is an independent test from Growers house with different results.

https://growershouse.com/blog/1000w-double-ended-de-bulb-lamp-comparison-review-test-including-philips-gavita-ushio-hortilux/

Exactly that's why we are doing the third party testing.

Yes we have lab reports on our site.

Hortliuxs DE wasn't out yet when that test was done.

Customer service doesn't mean let everyone kick you around and you take it. Sorry. You may find someone desperate enough to let you talk down to them but that's not me.

 

[nfhiggs]

I understand what you're saying but is it really only 2%? I know that plant's don't use all of the spectrum we throw at them which is why we like to give them blues and reds but only 2%?? Is there a source for this information? I was kind of guessing it'd be 25%

Think about the heat energy in those few pounds of plant matter, compared to the tens of thousands of BTU's of energy that fall on the plant during its 4 months of growing...

I read somewhere, I can't remember where, that a plant captures only about 7% of the light that falls on it. And its not about spectrum, a plant can use any photon from 400 to 700nm for photosynthesis, not just red and blue.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Exactly that's why we are doing the third party testing.

Yes we have lab reports on our site.

Hortliuxs DE wasn't out yet when that test was done.

Customer service doesn't mean let everyone kick you around and you take it. Sorry. You may find someone desperate enough to let you talk down to them but that's not me.

Hortilux lost in the test I posted from Growers house. Phillips won.

You started with the insults. I tried to post relevant university info to the light spectrum and quality discussion. You never answered about it. You mis-directed to a half story about cmh bulbs. And you were wrong about them.

Sad to say. You were as mis-informed as even Ttystick. But the whole story is on their website.

The current testing does not support your lamps spectrums. Or even the technology you are selling at all. Soon the spectrum will be customizable to be better than cmh too.


Cobs and qb may be more efficient but better quality and even crop structure customization is going to be available with mono color diodes in more complex lamps soon.

 

[Stephenj37826]

Hortilux lost in the test I posted from Growers house. Phillips won.

You started with the insults. I tried to post relevant university info to the light spectrum and quality discussion. You never answered about it. You mis-directed to a half story about cmh bulbs. And you were wrong about them.

Sad to say. You were as mis-informed as even Ttystick. But the whole story is on their website.

The current testing does not support your lamps spectrums. Or even the technology you are selling at all. Soon the spectrum will be customizable to be better than cmh too.


Cobs and qb may be more efficient but better quality and even crop structure customization is going to be available with mono color diodes in more complex lamps soon.

Please quote where I insulted you.

Yes I'm well aware of mono LEDs. The university of Japan supports our spectrum and if you haven't noticed the entire led grow light industry is leaning more and more twords white. We work closer to these led manufacturers than you know. Just because we don't brag about who we work with doesn't mean we are half as clueless as you think. The tried true photon count equaling yield still stands until we see otherwise. Meanwhile people are hitting 1.5-2.0 gpw with well built white light leds. I have yet to see a magic spectrum hit 3 consistently. So until then photon count stands as the number one indicator of yield prediction.

 

[see4]

Please quote where I insulted you.

Yes I'm well aware of mono LEDs. The university of Japan supports our spectrum and if you haven't noticed the entire led grow light industry is leaning more and more twords white. We work closer to these led manufacturers than you know. Just because we don't brag about who we work with doesn't mean we are half as clueless as you think. The tried true photon count equaling yield still stands until we see otherwise. Meanwhile people are hitting 1.5-2.0 gpw with well built white light leds. I have yet to see a magic spectrum hit 3 consistently. So until then photon count stands as the number one indicator of yield prediction.

Damn, who's hitting 2 grams per watt? I need to learn from them.

1200 grams of usable bud from a 600watt setup? Umm, yes please.

 

[coreywebster]

 

[coreywebster]

Think about the heat energy in those few pounds of plant matter, compared to the tens of thousands of BTU's of energy that fall on the plant during its 4 months of growing...

I read somewhere, I can't remember where, that a plant captures only about 7% of the light that falls on it. And its not about spectrum, a plant can use any photon from 400 to 700nm for photosynthesis, not just red and blue.

Two pages ago. post #696 +698
(I'm not saying your read that two pages ago, just referring your attention to the recalculation when you remove the light outside 400-700nm)

 

[Rahz]

Damn, who's hitting 2 grams per watt? I need to learn from them.

1200 grams of usable bud from a 600watt setup? Umm, yes please.

Several claims, one documented that I know of.

 

[wietefras]

How many times was that bulb cycled in that lumen maintenance chart as well. Everyone knows startup is what causes lumen depreciation.

An HPS bulb is not going to lose 15% in 100 hours. Stop grasping at straws

I posted what I saw from another forum. Take it or leave it.

No. That's exactly the point. It's 100% obviously false information. You reposting it as if it's something coming from someone with authority is just lame.

We all know the reflector takes a lot of light away. That does not make it OK to post false information about light maintenance.

 

[see4]

Several claims, one documented that I know of.

1.91 g/w - which included everything... meaning not all usable bud. So let's call it 1.75 g/w

That's still quite impressive. But spending $2600 to do that is not impressive. Not in the slightest.

 

[Stephenj37826]

An HPS bulb is not going to lose 15% in 100 hours. Stop grasping at straws

No. That's exactly the point. It's 100% obviously false information. You reposting it as if it's something coming from someone with authority is just lame.

We all know the reflector takes a lot of light away. That does not make it OK to post false information about light maintenance.

Unlike most we are putting in the time and money to see for ourselves.

 

[see4]

I could easily if I lowered my light intensity. I'm consistently over 1.5 with cheap citizen 1212's around 800 watts over each 4x4 grid. If I lowered the intensity to 500 watts and used 6-8 quantum boards per 4x4 id be at 2 per watt no problem.

So I'm thinking about buying some QB 304, 1 panel per heatsink, then "connect" the panels with L-Brackets... I'm thinking of running 4 boards in a 2x4, each 2 panel setup will get an hlg-185-12A run in series, so maybe 400 watts total.. i hope i did my math right on that... you think it would be possible to get to 2 g/w on that?

 

[Yodaweed]

Please quote where I insulted you.

Yes I'm well aware of mono LEDs. The university of Japan supports our spectrum and if you haven't noticed the entire led grow light industry is leaning more and more twords white. We work closer to these led manufacturers than you know. Just because we don't brag about who we work with doesn't mean we are half as clueless as you think. The tried true photon count equaling yield still stands until we see otherwise. Meanwhile people are hitting 1.5-2.0 gpw with well built white light leds. I have yet to see a magic spectrum hit 3 consistently. So until then photon count stands as the number one indicator of yield prediction.

The vast majority of LED users on here are barely getting 1 gpw with them, just go through grow journals and have a look for yourself.

 

[Yodaweed]

You must be thinking of mars blurples. I currently pull well over 6 units out of a 4x8 tent. My worst yield yet in a 4x8 with led was 4.5 units with auto's.. https://www.rollitup.org/t/exotic-genetix-future-chocolate-oranges-big-smooth-cob-led-gas-lantern-routine.940610/

Thats cool, still the majority of journals on here using LEDs barely pull 1gpw, most of them around .7gpw.

Here's an example

https://www.rollitup.org/t/can-700-watts-of-led-strips-grow-trees.946736/