Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
No worries, I took it the way you meant it.
But I don't like that I @ you and you are possibly getting into an argument that would not have happened had I not @ you.
Buds quality LEDs VS HPS
- Thread starter olsqueak
- Start date
But I don't like that I @ you and you are possibly getting into an argument that would not have happened had I not @ you.
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
That would be like me calling a friend to a fight and let him do the fighting while I smoke one.
Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
Pulling a pound with a 315 is pretty good! I'd take that all day...
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
No worries, I took it the way you meant it.
But I don't like that I @ you and you are possibly getting into an argument that would not have happened had I not @ you.
I only do what I want to.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
That would be like me calling a friend to a fight and let him do the fighting while I smoke one.
I don’t take sides online that way. Just let the trolls troll and have fun with it or show proof to shut them up.
You can’t take forums too personal. I learned the hard way already. It can become overwhelming.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Pulling a pound with a 315 is pretty good! I'd take that all day...
The 315 worked great just doesn’t cover much area. I have pulled 14 oz from 3 plants already. But I was told it could match my 600. Best under that is 24 oz so far. I can fit 4 bushes instead of only 3 and they grow dense bud lower down with the hps.
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
I have been learning that. I don't need to get worked up before the holidays so I will try to ignore trolls for a while in the other sections and enjoy watching my crystal develop.
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
@Chunky Stool i posted this flower in club 315 but I want you to see. This is a black Widow x Blue Lemon Thai. I have experience with these seeds and the 5 phenos I have seen.
The bud in my avatar is one from a few years ago.
I thought the cmh grew frostier buds but now I am not as sure. I don’t have my cmh pic in my phone anymore but have posted it here before.
The lighting is obviously not the most influential factor.
The bud in my avatar is one from a few years ago.
I thought the cmh grew frostier buds but now I am not as sure. I don’t have my cmh pic in my phone anymore but have posted it here before.
The lighting is obviously not the most influential factor.
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
@MichiganMedGrower One last thing. This statement above came out wrong. Online chat makes it hard to communicate. This is the 1st and only forum I have ever participated in. No interest in others.That would be like me calling a friend to a fight and let him do the fighting while I smoke one.
Anyway, I in no way meant I was calling you to help me in a fight. I would not do that.
I only wanted to ask you if I was being out of line. Since my immune therapy a few years ago I occasionally would get weird
and I sometimes will ask others for an opinion like, is my behavior out of line. I have been improving and it rarely happens any more except on RIU I guess .Maybe I was wrong about some people being trolls.
Ever seen those types of movies where the person thinks everyone they see is the same person, I think I was blinded seeing nothing but trolls attacking me. Oh well.
Happy Growing!
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
Awesome crystal.
I have had the same avatar for a long time. I'm changing my avatar to this until the New Year to remind me to just mellow out.
GrowLightResearch
Well-Known Member
The following is opinion and not fact. It is based on how my own interpretation of plant physiology. I have not had any formal training, just read some textbooks. Mistakes are likely.
It's not so much LED vs. HPS. A photon is a photon no matter its source. They all travel at the speed of light so it's not that HPS has more powerful photons or something like that.
The difference between one photon and another, as far as we know, is the wavelengths.
I believe it has more to do with polymorphism of the plant and how spectrum affects the specific specie. Each species has it own phenotype. As plants evolve the DNA of the cells morph in order to adapt to their environment. With plants, spectrum play a big role in their development environment. Example: how blue, yellow, and far red phytochromes effect elongation i.e. shade avoidance syndrome (SAS).
A good example is a tiger's stripes or jaguars spots are genetic traits. The color and shape are environmental. See a light and a dark-morphed jaguar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphology_(biology) here in the right sidebar.
Most of the discussions I see on this site regarding spectrum revolve around photosynthesis. It's not about photosynthesis, any spectrum works for photosynthesis. The difference is in how the electrons created during photosynthesis are used. It's about the electron transport chain. Maybe. This is where the environmental decisions are made. It has been found that spectrum has a major influence on polymorphism.
Also consider that a cannabis species grown under HPS has genetically evolved to adapt to HPS and may not do as well under a different spectrum. The DNA morphs will be transferred to the seeds.
Until the legalities regarding cannabis research get ironed out, it may be awhile before we find out. The good news is I was talking to a researcher at a college in Canada (U of Guelph) and he applied for a grant to do some of this research with cannabis.
There is a study done on Sweet Basil. I see some similarities between basil and cannabis, mainly the aroma and oils. This study shows unequivocally how much spectrum affects a plant's development. From this study I am extrapolating if the light recipe can drastically affect the terpenoids and phenylpropanoids for basil, it can do the same for cannabinoids. If you look at teh basil study, just think of cannabinoids in place of terpenoids and phenylpropanoids.
There is a "heatmap" showing how the various light treatment affected the productions of the volatiles terpenoids, phenylpropanoids, fatty acids fatty esters, and etc.
Notice how the column for Blue Red is almost inverted compared to BRGreen. That may explain some of the differences between growing under BR or White. The arguments over white vs. BR the focus often turns to green being the difference. The research I've seen so far on green does not really support that hypothesis either way. I think it is the Yellow spectrum. The basil study supports the yellow hypothesis. It appears to be a very influential color in both the appearance of the leaves and a huge affect on the volatiles.
And while off topic, I may as well add that light also affects the quality of plants (e.g. fruit and vegetables) post harvest. So you may want to store your harvest under various colors. My hypothesis is you can change the flavor just as it has been proven post harvest light treatments can change the flavor of fruits.
The "heatmap" the color treatments are at the bottom of each column. GH is greenhouse.
It's not so much LED vs. HPS. A photon is a photon no matter its source. They all travel at the speed of light so it's not that HPS has more powerful photons or something like that.
The difference between one photon and another, as far as we know, is the wavelengths.
I believe it has more to do with polymorphism of the plant and how spectrum affects the specific specie. Each species has it own phenotype. As plants evolve the DNA of the cells morph in order to adapt to their environment. With plants, spectrum play a big role in their development environment. Example: how blue, yellow, and far red phytochromes effect elongation i.e. shade avoidance syndrome (SAS).
A good example is a tiger's stripes or jaguars spots are genetic traits. The color and shape are environmental. See a light and a dark-morphed jaguar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphology_(biology) here in the right sidebar.
Most of the discussions I see on this site regarding spectrum revolve around photosynthesis. It's not about photosynthesis, any spectrum works for photosynthesis. The difference is in how the electrons created during photosynthesis are used. It's about the electron transport chain. Maybe. This is where the environmental decisions are made. It has been found that spectrum has a major influence on polymorphism.
Also consider that a cannabis species grown under HPS has genetically evolved to adapt to HPS and may not do as well under a different spectrum. The DNA morphs will be transferred to the seeds.
Until the legalities regarding cannabis research get ironed out, it may be awhile before we find out. The good news is I was talking to a researcher at a college in Canada (U of Guelph) and he applied for a grant to do some of this research with cannabis.
There is a study done on Sweet Basil. I see some similarities between basil and cannabis, mainly the aroma and oils. This study shows unequivocally how much spectrum affects a plant's development. From this study I am extrapolating if the light recipe can drastically affect the terpenoids and phenylpropanoids for basil, it can do the same for cannabinoids. If you look at teh basil study, just think of cannabinoids in place of terpenoids and phenylpropanoids.
There is a "heatmap" showing how the various light treatment affected the productions of the volatiles terpenoids, phenylpropanoids, fatty acids fatty esters, and etc.
Notice how the column for Blue Red is almost inverted compared to BRGreen. That may explain some of the differences between growing under BR or White. The arguments over white vs. BR the focus often turns to green being the difference. The research I've seen so far on green does not really support that hypothesis either way. I think it is the Yellow spectrum. The basil study supports the yellow hypothesis. It appears to be a very influential color in both the appearance of the leaves and a huge affect on the volatiles.
Light Quality Dependent Changes in Morphology, Antioxidant Capacity, and Volatile Production in Sweet Basil
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5007804/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5007804/
And while off topic, I may as well add that light also affects the quality of plants (e.g. fruit and vegetables) post harvest. So you may want to store your harvest under various colors. My hypothesis is you can change the flavor just as it has been proven post harvest light treatments can change the flavor of fruits.
The "heatmap" the color treatments are at the bottom of each column. GH is greenhouse.
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Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
I think everyone is a little defensive of their grow preferences. Everything from type of lighting, spectrum, intensity, airflow, humidity, nutrients, etc...
A buddy of mine constantly lectures me about how random my "grow style" is, and he almost flipped out when I told him that I top-dressed with a little insect frass after transplanting a batch from solos.
"There you go again - Introducing a new variable! You'll never get anything dialed in."
Is he right? Should I resist the urge to supplement when it feels right? (Plants are digging the frass BTW)
I have grown some serious dank in my day.
But I've also grown a fair amount of "meh".
A buddy of mine constantly lectures me about how random my "grow style" is, and he almost flipped out when I told him that I top-dressed with a little insect frass after transplanting a batch from solos.
"There you go again - Introducing a new variable! You'll never get anything dialed in."
Is he right? Should I resist the urge to supplement when it feels right? (Plants are digging the frass BTW)
I have grown some serious dank in my day.
But I've also grown a fair amount of "meh".
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Here are the results of some more light testing.
The second link is just the rest of the info from the test. The first link a synopsis.
They mention how led is going to be customized to even determine the size of leaves in seedlings eventually.
While we are debating a bunch of oversimplified information to help small light builders sell what will be old tech in minutes the university is figuring out how to grow plants exactly as they want using specific colored lights.
There will be professional customized specific led Grow lights in no time as the industry standard.
Or even customizable for specific crops or size and shape.
Also some real information on green light here.
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/green_light_is_it_important_for_plant_growth
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/production/plant-culture/growing-seedlings-under-leds-part-two/
The second link is just the rest of the info from the test. The first link a synopsis.
They mention how led is going to be customized to even determine the size of leaves in seedlings eventually.
While we are debating a bunch of oversimplified information to help small light builders sell what will be old tech in minutes the university is figuring out how to grow plants exactly as they want using specific colored lights.
There will be professional customized specific led Grow lights in no time as the industry standard.
Or even customizable for specific crops or size and shape.
Also some real information on green light here.
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/green_light_is_it_important_for_plant_growth
http://www.greenhousegrower.com/production/plant-culture/growing-seedlings-under-leds-part-two/
Buba Blend
Well-Known Member
No more fighting for me, lets see how I do. lol
Even if I get insulted not gonna get bothered by it.
For the record, someone said I can't even spell Buba.
Buba is not misspelled.
It has nothing to do with an MJ strain.
My name is Bill. I have a niece that called me Uncle Bubba.
She gave me a card one time at the age of 5 or 6, not sure.
It was to Uncle Buba and it stuck.
Buba Blend is what I called my weed after my 1st harvest in the 90's.
Even if I get insulted not gonna get bothered by it.
For the record, someone said I can't even spell Buba.
Buba is not misspelled.
It has nothing to do with an MJ strain.
My name is Bill. I have a niece that called me Uncle Bubba.
She gave me a card one time at the age of 5 or 6, not sure.
It was to Uncle Buba and it stuck.
Buba Blend is what I called my weed after my 1st harvest in the 90's.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It's already been done by 'amateurs'.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
"Differences in radiation quality from the six most common electric lamps have little effect on photosynthetic rate. Radiation quality primarily alters growth because of changes in branching or internode elongation, which change radiation absorption. Growth and yield in wheat appear to be insensitive to radiation quality. Growth and yield in soybeans can be slightly increased under high pressure sodium lamps compared to metal halide lamps, in spite of greatly reduced chlorophyll concentrations under HPS lamps. Daily integrated photosynthetic photon flux (mol m-2 d-1) most directly determines leaf anatomy and growth. Photosynthetic photon flux levels of 800 μmol m-2 s-1 are adequate to simulate field daily-integrated PPF levels for both short and long day plants, but plant canopies can benefit from much higher PPF levels."
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.5 Bugbee/Bugbee text.htm
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.5 Bugbee/Bugbee text.htm
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Why don’t you ever actually say anything?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Until recently, it has seemed like you didn't want to listen, just argue.
hillbill
Well-Known Member
Spectrum!
TacoMac
Well-Known Member
In the end, it can all be summed up quite easily:
LED is the future. They've made leaps and bounds over the last 4 years alone that have really, really brought the higher end LED fixtures into even par with HPS/Halide lighting.
But HPS/Halide lighting still has its strengths.
The argument of these two types of lighting is sort of the same argument between tube amp and solid state folks. The tube amp is the original, great sounding amplifier. Solid states are cheaper, but never had quite the warmth that tubes do.
That too is changing. Digital amp modeling is getting better and better every year. Probably in another 10 years time you'll be able to sit a emulator solid state costing 400 dollars next to a 1300 dollar Vox AC 30 and not hear a difference.
HPS/Halide vs LED is the same thing. The later will eventually overtake the former. It's the way of things and how we advance.
LED is the future. They've made leaps and bounds over the last 4 years alone that have really, really brought the higher end LED fixtures into even par with HPS/Halide lighting.
But HPS/Halide lighting still has its strengths.
The argument of these two types of lighting is sort of the same argument between tube amp and solid state folks. The tube amp is the original, great sounding amplifier. Solid states are cheaper, but never had quite the warmth that tubes do.
That too is changing. Digital amp modeling is getting better and better every year. Probably in another 10 years time you'll be able to sit a emulator solid state costing 400 dollars next to a 1300 dollar Vox AC 30 and not hear a difference.
HPS/Halide vs LED is the same thing. The later will eventually overtake the former. It's the way of things and how we advance.