Recharge nutes ?
- Thread starter The_Dude
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Richard Drysift
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You don't want to use it in a hydro system; recharge is much like compost tea without the actual compost. It's good to use in a soil grow but does very little to feed plants; it is more of a microbial inoculant that a nutrient. Adding straight worm castings as a top dressing or making a tea with EWC is much better way to deliver microbes to your soil but if recharge is all you got to jump start an organic soil grow it can help increase microbial activity in your mix.
Soon after using any synthetic nutrients (or chlorinated water) though most of your microbial populations will likely die off because they cannot process the dissolved salts; dries out their bodies. So unless you use products that are labeled OMRI and safe for living soil adding in microbes is kind of pointless.
Soon after using any synthetic nutrients (or chlorinated water) though most of your microbial populations will likely die off because they cannot process the dissolved salts; dries out their bodies. So unless you use products that are labeled OMRI and safe for living soil adding in microbes is kind of pointless.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
Well shoot, I thought they were good for hydro also, for cleaning the root system and increasing plant take up. Whats your take on hydroguard, and great white? My best plants have come from hydro, but I have never used a super soil, like what has been recommended to me lately. I used hydroguard to keep everything looking nice and pretty in my previous aeroponic grows. I think maybe I am mistaking the hydroguard as having microbes? I know I have seen folks running great white with lots of success. There is so much bullshit info on growing on the net, it's hard to sift through the bullshit, being noobish.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
Use an RO water filtration system.
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
I wish I could give you a short sweet answer but that's not how I roll lol so to clear the air of any bullshit....
Hydroguard contains beneficial enzymes; for keeping your hydroponic system clean of bacteria. In the absence of a soil food web where there would be lots of tiny living things eating and fucking each other you need to control the populations of bacteria. There's nothing to keep bacteria in check in a reservoir full of available food. So that why you need "bennies;" they help keep roots clean and help with absorption by killing any bacteria which keeps the ph stable.
Soil microbes are not that much different than the bacteria that wants to live in your reservoir and there are thousands of different kinds. In an established soil food web like an old forest nobody ever feeds the trees yet they grow tall and healthy. That's because leaves and other organic materials have fallen onto the soil and been decomposed for years. That is how to make super soil; add active organic materials to regular dirt and then allow the soil food web (microbes, earthworms, and fungi) to break it all down.
"Super" soil is sort of a bs marketing buzzword. The only thing that makes it super is it is active with microbial life. A living soil food web includes mycorrhizae; fungi that attaches itself to plants root systems and help absorb of nutrients from the soil made available through microbial activity.
This symbiosis is the main difference between organic and hydroponic growing. Sure you can add nutes to a soil grow but that is not really growing organic it's more like passive hydroponics. The food in nutrients is already available and needs no microbial or fungal activity to absorb it. Plants are force fed everything all the time whether it's needed or not. In a natural soil grow plants feed only on what they need. This is why bud grown in natural soil tastes better and why peeps are telling you to grow in super soil. You get better flavors and a more accurate representation of the strain characteristics in natural soil but hydroponics can yield more in a faster timeframe. It's really a matter of preference; the plants could care less either way. I used to grow hydro but I'll never go back because the quality is so much better and organics are self sustaining/less overall cost; haven't spent a dime at a hydro store in years.
Since you already use RO water then doing a living soil grow is an easy switch; most people have trouble because they use tap water and nutrients and then cannot figure out why their soil is "depleted" after 6 weeks. In fact it's not depleted it's just inactive because chloramine and dissolved salts has killed off the microherd.
Great white contains mycorrhizae and other fungi like trichoderma; it is highly recommended. Great white is not the only granular mycorrhizae you can get but it is probably the most expensive. I use myco extreme brand and sprinkle it in the hole at every transplant for the same result. One reason I took time to explain all this here is because if you use synthetic nutrients like botanicare then myco(great white) in a soil grow is not really needed at all. Myco is needed for absorption in a natural soil grow but symbiosis is unnecessary when you run synthetics. If you feed compost teas or organic fertilizers then mycorrhizae fungi is literally essential. Phew hope that helps answer your Q
Hydroguard contains beneficial enzymes; for keeping your hydroponic system clean of bacteria. In the absence of a soil food web where there would be lots of tiny living things eating and fucking each other you need to control the populations of bacteria. There's nothing to keep bacteria in check in a reservoir full of available food. So that why you need "bennies;" they help keep roots clean and help with absorption by killing any bacteria which keeps the ph stable.
Soil microbes are not that much different than the bacteria that wants to live in your reservoir and there are thousands of different kinds. In an established soil food web like an old forest nobody ever feeds the trees yet they grow tall and healthy. That's because leaves and other organic materials have fallen onto the soil and been decomposed for years. That is how to make super soil; add active organic materials to regular dirt and then allow the soil food web (microbes, earthworms, and fungi) to break it all down.
"Super" soil is sort of a bs marketing buzzword. The only thing that makes it super is it is active with microbial life. A living soil food web includes mycorrhizae; fungi that attaches itself to plants root systems and help absorb of nutrients from the soil made available through microbial activity.
This symbiosis is the main difference between organic and hydroponic growing. Sure you can add nutes to a soil grow but that is not really growing organic it's more like passive hydroponics. The food in nutrients is already available and needs no microbial or fungal activity to absorb it. Plants are force fed everything all the time whether it's needed or not. In a natural soil grow plants feed only on what they need. This is why bud grown in natural soil tastes better and why peeps are telling you to grow in super soil. You get better flavors and a more accurate representation of the strain characteristics in natural soil but hydroponics can yield more in a faster timeframe. It's really a matter of preference; the plants could care less either way. I used to grow hydro but I'll never go back because the quality is so much better and organics are self sustaining/less overall cost; haven't spent a dime at a hydro store in years.
Since you already use RO water then doing a living soil grow is an easy switch; most people have trouble because they use tap water and nutrients and then cannot figure out why their soil is "depleted" after 6 weeks. In fact it's not depleted it's just inactive because chloramine and dissolved salts has killed off the microherd.
Great white contains mycorrhizae and other fungi like trichoderma; it is highly recommended. Great white is not the only granular mycorrhizae you can get but it is probably the most expensive. I use myco extreme brand and sprinkle it in the hole at every transplant for the same result. One reason I took time to explain all this here is because if you use synthetic nutrients like botanicare then myco(great white) in a soil grow is not really needed at all. Myco is needed for absorption in a natural soil grow but symbiosis is unnecessary when you run synthetics. If you feed compost teas or organic fertilizers then mycorrhizae fungi is literally essential. Phew hope that helps answer your Q
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
Thank you for all that info. I am thinking about taking a large 30 gallon bin, and doing what you described. Taking my fox farms soils that I've used, combine that with compost, green sand, bat guano, bag of earth worm casting, blood meal, neem cake, kelp. Do fertilizers still need to be used with that much crap in the soil? PH is 6.7 for soil? Should I add come biocozyme and recharge a few weeks before I start using? This is interesting as hell.
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
Basically you want fertilizer inputs, mineral inputs, and compost. Diversity is more important than ratios; try to add in small amounts of many different things. I would also add in some lime, garden gypsum, and oyster shell flour to help regulate ph and provide slow release macros. Biocozyme looks like snake oil to me; it's not needed nor is the recharge if you are adding in worm castings and compost. You do need to let it all set for 30 days to "cook" it in. Cook time is needed anytime you add in dry amendments to allow everything to begin breaking down and normalize ph. You shouldn't need to bother checking the ph as long as you give it 30+ days but if you do use a decent quality soil probe; runoff ph in soil tells you exactly nothing. I would also put any green leafy cannabis material you may have from a previous harvest in with your recycling soil; it will disappear in a month. Cannabis contains nearly everything cannabis needs; go figure.
When you first begin amending the soil it won't be very active but after a few recycles you will see how much better it works over time. The more you amend & recycle a mix the better it will get and the less you will need to add in later. Some amendments like soft rock phosphate literally take years to break down. The more active in microbial life your mix is the faster amendments you add will become available to the plants. So in the beginning you may need to give plants a boost. I suggest giving teas and liquid fish fertilizer like neptunes harvest until your mix becomes more active.
I like to add chicken and/or cow manure to my final size flowering containers along with a jobes organic spike or 2 to keep plants green all the way through to harvest time with mostly just water.
When you first begin amending the soil it won't be very active but after a few recycles you will see how much better it works over time. The more you amend & recycle a mix the better it will get and the less you will need to add in later. Some amendments like soft rock phosphate literally take years to break down. The more active in microbial life your mix is the faster amendments you add will become available to the plants. So in the beginning you may need to give plants a boost. I suggest giving teas and liquid fish fertilizer like neptunes harvest until your mix becomes more active.
I like to add chicken and/or cow manure to my final size flowering containers along with a jobes organic spike or 2 to keep plants green all the way through to harvest time with mostly just water.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
Got any pics from SS grows?
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
I hate the term supersoil because people google it and think they need to give subcool $400 to grow organic bud. I think a better term is natural living soil. You can use almost any decent organic garden soil and make it "super" by simply adding amendments and compost. Just don't use the crap with those time released pellets of miracle grow; that is not a good base for building up a living soil.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
I have used a product called ECO scraps from lowes, no nutes what so ever in that shit, and it says it is made from compost piles. What it does do is retain water too well and kill your plants(big OG plant died). Put 4 seedlings in that and none made it. Now we have a nursery in town here that makes their own blend, and I have been very curious as of late. The guy that runs the nursery is odd as hell, but he seems to really be into what he does. He is willing to load the back of my truck for $20. Which is much cheaper than say foxfarms. Think I will give it a shot, add guano, bloodmeal, green sand, earth worm castings, bananna peels and egg shells I have been saving up. Let it sit for a month or two, then plant some of the Gelato I ordered in it. I can't wait to see how this soil does. I
One thing you said stuck with me about tap water, I had given some of my gals tap water in a pinch(out the door for work) not realizing how much damage I was doing. Because I thought the dirt would act as a buffer. Just one more thing I will never do again.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
My main plant right now is that HSO blue dream you are growing. Man are those genetics tough, and never hermie. Mine doesn't grow like most you see, like a tall lanky sativa. It grows short and fat, and the stems are more lateral. In a 5 gallon, I pull about 180grams. I love the high, and so do all of my friends. Even friends who preferred indicas say it is something special. The high starts in the eyes, and stays for hours. I smoke it with my wife, when I want her to clean up the house. My house in clean in no time. lol
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
I talk a lot, I know. But I came across this, and I have always wanted to try their genetics, since ghost train haze was winning cups. They have a learning section on their site, which is really interesting. This is from Rare Dankness's learning center.
THE MOONSHINE MIX
The original moonshine mix called for a full bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest organic soil, a half bag of Fox Farm planting Mix with bat guano and a half of a bag of Fox Farm Light warrior with additional dry nutrients provided by Peace of Mind and a few added amendments. The key to this mix was to master the wet/ dry cycle and learning the key times to transplant. It was an expensive mix but it worked for almost every strain I've ever grown from after cloning to harvest. A few tweaks and additional amendments and I've developed a mix that works just as well and allows for a few well timed feedings to increase growth rates.
This is the final mix for Flowering, mix and allow soil to sit for 7 days before transplanting. For best results: final transplant 8-10 days before flowering. Pot size should be based on plant size. Less than a foot tall without many leads = small pot. Big 3 ft tall monster bush before flower = 7-10 gal bin.
1 bag of Fox Farm Happy Frog potting soil ½ bag Fox Farm Ocean Forest ½ bag of Black Gold organic soil 2 lbs of earth worm castings. 5 gallons of Chunky / Coarse perilite 1 cup greensand 1 cup dolomite lime (powder) 1 small coco fiber brick 2 cups Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower
For 90% of plants this mix will need only Ph'd (6.7) water through the entire flower cycle. For the other 10% of heavy feeders I recommend feeding at week 3 through 5.
For this feeding per 5 gal of pre ph'd 7.0 water.
Week 3: 2 tblspn of Age Old Organics Bloom ½ oz Maxicrop seaweed 1oz of Mother Earth Tea bloom ½ oz B1 thrive alive bloom
Week 4 & 5 4 tblspn Age Old Organics Bloom 1 oz Maxicrop seaweed 2oz Mother Earth Tea Bloom 1/2 oz B1 thrive alive bloom When feeding make sure 20% of what you put in is peeing out the bottom. Start flushing 12-17 days before harvesting.
THE MOONSHINE MIX
The original moonshine mix called for a full bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest organic soil, a half bag of Fox Farm planting Mix with bat guano and a half of a bag of Fox Farm Light warrior with additional dry nutrients provided by Peace of Mind and a few added amendments. The key to this mix was to master the wet/ dry cycle and learning the key times to transplant. It was an expensive mix but it worked for almost every strain I've ever grown from after cloning to harvest. A few tweaks and additional amendments and I've developed a mix that works just as well and allows for a few well timed feedings to increase growth rates.
This is the final mix for Flowering, mix and allow soil to sit for 7 days before transplanting. For best results: final transplant 8-10 days before flowering. Pot size should be based on plant size. Less than a foot tall without many leads = small pot. Big 3 ft tall monster bush before flower = 7-10 gal bin.
1 bag of Fox Farm Happy Frog potting soil ½ bag Fox Farm Ocean Forest ½ bag of Black Gold organic soil 2 lbs of earth worm castings. 5 gallons of Chunky / Coarse perilite 1 cup greensand 1 cup dolomite lime (powder) 1 small coco fiber brick 2 cups Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower
For 90% of plants this mix will need only Ph'd (6.7) water through the entire flower cycle. For the other 10% of heavy feeders I recommend feeding at week 3 through 5.
For this feeding per 5 gal of pre ph'd 7.0 water.
Week 3: 2 tblspn of Age Old Organics Bloom ½ oz Maxicrop seaweed 1oz of Mother Earth Tea bloom ½ oz B1 thrive alive bloom
Week 4 & 5 4 tblspn Age Old Organics Bloom 1 oz Maxicrop seaweed 2oz Mother Earth Tea Bloom 1/2 oz B1 thrive alive bloom When feeding make sure 20% of what you put in is peeing out the bottom. Start flushing 12-17 days before harvesting.
greg nr
Well-Known Member
I heard a pod cast by the guy who makes recharge, and he said you can add it to a res, but do it the last day of the cycle before you change out the mix. That way it can bind onto the roots but it doesn't hang out long enough to screw up the res.
Well, that was his rec anyway. I grow in soil and use it along with mammoth p. I can't prove anything, but my grows are generally healthy and happy.
Well, that was his rec anyway. I grow in soil and use it along with mammoth p. I can't prove anything, but my grows are generally healthy and happy.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
Cool, but not sure if it is need like Richard said, since hydro isn't a living medium. I can see other elements in recharge helping though. Kelp, powered molasses ect.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
I like growing in both, most of my grows have been experiments. So far, the dirt grows the largest buds, the hydro grows super potent buds. My wife always says, "stop breaking out the shit grown in dirt, I want hydro". She is new to smoking and has chronic headaches. When she smokes that blue dream, my house gets clean, and I get more sex than I want. lol
greg nr
Well-Known Member
If the conservatives heard that, cannabis would be legalized in weeks.
greg nr
Well-Known Member
I like dirt because it doesn't need a circuit breaker and it doesn't leak all over your house when a hose breaks.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
Hydro, so far. Way more dank smelling. So frosty that when it drys you still get oil on your hands from the trich. The jar stinks up the house if you leave it open while rolling. The dirt does not do this near as well, but I want it to. I am hoping this living soil will give the water plants a run for the money, and provide more taste.
The_Dude
Well-Known Member
lol....I wish it was legalized for the whole country. I'm libertarian, I like my guns and weed. Fuck dems and repubs.If the conservatives heard that, cannabis would be legalized in weeks.
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