Light Quantity vs Light Quality Evidence ... Just for 4 u gg lol!

[frica]

All this is true, but it's also true that COB LED, not to mention quantum boards, are already much more efficient and produce a better spectrum. They also last much longer. Any of these reasons would be good enough to justify an upgrade, all of them together make it a no brainer!

I like to look at low cost options before the high cost ones.

T5s are very cheap, you can still easily grow a year (maybe 2) with them and then look at the now discounted LED options.
Though I think the time is very close to close the curtains of regular T5 forever.

It will still have a place for UV though, until UV leds have become cheap enough.

 

[ttystikk]

I like to look at low cost options before the high cost ones.

T5s are very cheap, you can still easily grow a year (maybe 2) with them and then look at the now discounted LED options.
Though I think the time is very close to close the curtains of regular T5 forever.

It will still have a place for UV though, until UV leds have become cheap enough.

True enough.

 

[whitebb2727]

DE Gavita has a lumen maintenance of 95% after 5000 hours. And is 90% after 10000 hours, roughly the same as a T5.
Osram T5s have a lumen maintenance of 95% after 4000 hours.
Same goes for Philips ones.


What T5s are you using?
There aren't very many that get to 30%, besides a few high efficiency philips ones.

And I'm very certain HPS is still the most used horticultural light, at least in professional setting.

At least most T5s are very cheap and it's not throwing away money like some LED panels, that are overpriced (Blackdog, Platinum, most cheap shit)
But LED tubes are getting cheaper too, and Osram (philips has similar ones) is already pumping out 150 lm/w LED tubes.(the cold ones)
The 3000K ones are 135 lm/w. (SubstiTUBE Advanced HF)

I'm running a durolux 4 ft 8 bulb. The bulbs are double staked and only 18 inches wide.

It is a cheapy. $115. No name ballast but quality built for sure. Been rocking the 8 bulb for two years. A six bulb I gave a buddy has been running close to 3 years. Both non stop. 30% may be a little exaggerated. Its got to.be close.

All I know is we can argue about lights but we all know that is just a small part of the equation. Its mostly the grower. If you can't grow, then better lights mean nothing.

I'm not a pro. I make mistakes and have shown them here.

Ive been playing in the dirt since I could walk. I feed a family of five with my garden.

I can't argue with your logic. Just saying t5 can throw down some killer bud.

I use agro max veg, bloom, pure par, and 10,000k+uva bulbs.

 

[boertje]

@ Wietefras,

bumb

There is some science that backs up some of the statements of the original poster

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892149/

In this study, blue light has been shown to trigger both a qualitative signalling effect enabling normal photosynthetic functioning of cucumber leaves and a quantitative response stimulating leaf development normally associated with acclimation to irradiance intensity. Leaf acclimation to irradiance intensity may therefore be regulated by a limited range of wavelengths instead of the full PAR spectrum. Varying the blue light fraction offers the possibility to manipulate leaf properties under a low irradiance such that they would normally be associated with high irradiances. The possibility to grow plants under relatively low irradiance in a plant growth facility, with a relatively high photosynthetic capacity able to withstand irradiances under field conditions, is a useful practical consequence for research and agriculture.

 

[Hybridway]

HPS - 22-24 CRI. Quantity baby.
It's Nice to have both though.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

@Hybridway 22-24 CRI is true enough but CRI is a human-centric metric, when we look at the ratio important to photosynthesis (YPF/PPF) we find that HPS's score highly at 0.95, hence why you get good growth under them due to high PAR/YPF values, although due to the limited spectrum the plant will never reach its full genetic potential.

Quantity is definitely an important factor, but spectrum is right up there too in terms of producing better quality plants, and people who have been Flowering under fluoros and Ceramic Metal Halides with a lot less power (yet able to keep up with HPS's in terms of yield) will tell you the same thing

 

[ttystikk]

@Hybridway 22-24 CRI is true enough but CRI is a human-centric metric, when we look at the ratio important to photosynthesis (YPF/PPF) we find that HPS's score highly at 0.95, hence why you get good growth under them due to high PAR/YPF values, although due to the limited spectrum the plant will never reach its full genetic potential.

Quantity is definitely an important factor, but spectrum is right up there too in terms of producing better quality plants, and people who have been Flowering under fluoros and Ceramic Metal Halides with a lot less power (yet able to keep up with HPS's in terms of yield) will tell you the same thing

No, CRI is a comparison to sunlight.

Your two statements are contradictory.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I believe CRI is the ability to render colors from a light source in relation to how we see the colors in sunlight.

 

[Hybridway]

@Hybridway 22-24 CRI is true enough but CRI is a human-centric metric, when we look at the ratio important to photosynthesis (YPF/PPF) we find that HPS's score highly at 0.95, hence why you get good growth under them due to high PAR/YPF values, although due to the limited spectrum the plant will never reach its full genetic potential.

Quantity is definitely an important factor, but spectrum is right up there too in terms of producing better quality plants, and people who have been Flowering under fluoros and Ceramic Metal Halides with a lot less power (yet able to keep up with HPS's in terms of yield) will tell you the same thing

Agreed. Quantity of quality is what is shoot for. Full spectrum is the way to go.
There's deff allot to be said about the CMH spectrum as well as a few LEDs out.
Not a fan of floros anymore but that's not to say I didn't do well w/ them as side lighting. Now you can do just as well w/ led strips @ 1/4 the power.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Agreed. Quantity of quality is what is shoot for. Full spectrum is the way to go.
There's deff allot to be said about the CMH spectrum as well as a few LEDs out.
Not a fan of floros anymore but that's not to say I didn't do well w/ them as side lighting. Now you can do just as well w/ led strips @ 1/4 the power.

Could you point me to some good led strips to replace t-5's? I am very curious.

 

[Hybridway]

Could you point me to some good led strips to replace t-5's? I am very curious.

http://www.suncloak.com/Suncloak-Horizon-G240-Grow-Light-p/g240.htm

 

[OneHitDone]

http://www.suncloak.com/Suncloak-Horizon-G240-Grow-Light-p/g240.htm

So $800 to veg a 4x4 at 480W??
The Inda-Gro 420 Induction light will do it at 420W with a better spectrum and a lower price

 

[Randomblame]

Cheaper yes but a induction light can not grow such tall plants like a suncloak can and will outperform also a 600w inda-gro.

The SunCloak allows for fully matured flowers all over the plant, almost as if they were standing in the sun. The "Horizon's" are only a part of the system. With induction light you can perhaps produce a 30-40cm tall canopy with ripe flowers, but not 5-6' tall plants with ripe flowers down to the first branch..

You should first look at the SunCloak MultiStrain thread before you can make a judgment.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/sun-cloak-multi-strain.929661/

 

[Hybridway]

So $800 to veg a 4x4 at 480W??
The Inda-Gro 420 Induction light will do it at 420W with a better spectrum and a lower price

No, no. That there's a flowering light. A beast too.
The veg Horizons are 300. About the same as a T-5 (if I remember correctly) but w/o buying bulbs later.
I switched out my T-5's for Horizons.

 

[Yodaweed]

Cheaper yes but a induction light can not grow such tall plants like a suncloak can and will outperform also a 600w inda-gro.

The SunCloak allows for fully matured flowers all over the plant, almost as if they were standing in the sun. The "Horizon's" are only a part of the system. With induction light you can perhaps produce a 30-40cm tall canopy with ripe flowers, but not 5-6' tall plants with ripe flowers down to the first branch..

You should first look at the SunCloak MultiStrain thread before you can make a judgment.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/sun-cloak-multi-strain.929661/

Not trying to be rude but that thread is not impressive(tall and spindly plants with weak stems that look like they wanted more light), you could have vegged stouter plants with a way cheaper light and they would yield way more and been much healthier.

That suncloak is more of a novelty item than a real growing tool.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

No, CRI is a comparison to sunlight.

Your two statements are contradictory.

Lol I hear ya... Yes, it is the Colour Rendering Index based upon how closely an artificial light source will render its colours in comparison to the sun, but what I meant is this is a metric that is based/used in the indoor light industry e.g architectural, street lighting, homes etc, and it is aimed squarely at people.

CRI is not a horticultural specific metric nor an entirely useful one because plants can grow extremely well under what from a human perspective would be considered a low CRI poor performing lamp like a HPS, this is what I meant.

From the plants perspective the sun spectrum and sky spectrum is shifting throughout time (hour/day/month) and so would the "CRI", hence CRI is not a useful metric when considering plants and plant growth.

Could you point me to some good led strips to replace t-5's? I am very curious.

If you fancy DIY I would go for Samsung F -SERIES Gen 3 4ft strips
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/optoelectronics/led-lighting-cobs-engines-modules/111?k=1510 -2213 -nd

Quite a few folk are going on about the H SERIES Gen 3, but in my opinion, the F series represents better value and more bang for your buck.

 

[Hybridway]

Not trying to be rude but that thread is not impressive(tall and spindly plants with weak stems that look like they wanted more light), you could have vegged stouter plants with a way cheaper light and they would yield way more and been much healthier.

That suncloak is more of a novelty item than a real growing tool.

That plant health is on me not the Cloak bud. I've had a few problems in "17".
It gets 1# + from a
12"-16" x 4' space using 300w. Each bay.
Does well on g/sq' & GPW.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Not trying to be rude but that thread is not impressive(tall and spindly plants with weak stems that look like they wanted more light).

Your comment here is a case in point with regards to spectrum see below:

Look at the lack of Blue/Green/Far Red, and the ratio of Red/Blue it is way too high and the ratio of Blue/FR/Red is way too low for vegging and if someone was to veg under such a spectrum they are always going to end up with stunted plants... The tallness probably comes from shade avoidance response in the plant hence it elongates

This spectrum is clearly lacking in Blue and Far Red the ratios are out of whack, that is what I see as the problem.

 

[OneHitDone]

Cheaper yes but a induction light can not grow such tall plants like a suncloak can and will outperform also a 600w inda-gro.

The SunCloak allows for fully matured flowers all over the plant, almost as if they were standing in the sun. The "Horizon's" are only a part of the system. With induction light you can perhaps produce a 30-40cm tall canopy with ripe flowers, but not 5-6' tall plants with ripe flowers down to the first branch..

You should first look at the SunCloak MultiStrain thread before you can make a judgment.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/sun-cloak-multi-strain.929661/

Get your shit straight bro, No one was talking about SunCloak systems. "Horizons" are said to be a T5 replacement.

And, have you ever grown a plant with an Induction lamp? I doubt it

 

[Hybridway]

Lol I hear ya... Yes, it is the Colour Rendering Index based upon how closely an artificial light source will render its colours in comparison to the sun, but what I meant is this is a metric that is based/used in the indoor light industry e.g architectural, street lighting, homes etc, and it is aimed squarely at people.

CRI is not a horticultural specific metric nor an entirely useful one because plants can grow extremely well under what from a human perspective would be considered a low CRI poor performing lamp like a HPS, this is what I meant.

From the plants perspective the sun spectrum and sky spectrum is shifting throughout time (hour/day/month) and so would the "CRI", hence CRI is not a useful metric when considering plants and plant growth.




If you fancy DIY I would go for Samsung F -SERIES Gen 3 4ft strips
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/optoelectronics/led-lighting-cobs-engines-modules/111?k=1510 -2213 -nd

Quite a few folk are going on about the H SERIES Gen 3, but in my opinion, the F series represents better value and more bang for your buck.

The cri's not changing throughout the day, the K-temp is.