LED light power versus sun light

[canadian1969]

LOL - he says 55% is at "440 nm range uv ir to name a couple" (WTH does that even mean?), then posts a link that quite clearly says 52-55% is at 700 nm and above. SMH....

and empties his purse all over the thread lol

 

[nfhiggs]

and empties his purse all over the thread lol

I'd put him on ignore, but his nonsense is just too entertaining.

 

[Devildenis69]

Hi all !
Very interesting topic, I'll drop few ideas here

Talking about the distance separating the sun from the earth and different atmospheric layers doesn't make much sense as we are considering the sun spectrum characteristics that reach the Earth not the one directly emitted by it.

And imo, if the outdoors plants seem to be able to receive a higher PPFD than indoor ones, is because of the phenomen of 'photon quenching'.
The sun's space location, intensity and spectrum are changing across time, while most of our growlights do not, thus involving a phenomen of saturation.

I believe it would be interesting comparing the DLI (PPF over time) of an optimal outdoor exposition to the one our indoor closets.

 

[ANC]

Lol, yesterday there was a guy talking about the top colas growing faster because it is closer to the light...
Lol, wonder(no, not really) why it does the same thing outdoors ... the difference 3 feet make to sunlight must be immeasurable.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Hi all !
Very interesting topic, I'll drop few ideas here

Talking about the distance separating the sun from the earth and different atmospheric layers doesn't make much sense as we are considering the sun spectrum characteristics that reach the Earth not the one directly emitted by it.

Damn I wish I was better at conveying what I meant because this is exactly what I meant in one of my previous posts lol

And imo, if the outdoors plants seem to be able to receive a higher PPFD than indoor ones, is because of the phenomen of 'photon quenching'.
The sun's space location, intensity and spectrum are changing across time, while most of our growlights do not, thus involving a phenomen of saturation.

I think that is a big part, but I also think because there is a constant supply of Co2 outdoors I think that is the other factor

I believe it would be interesting comparing the DLI (PPF over time) of an optimal outdoor exposition to the one our indoor closets.

Same here, which is why I asked OP to take multiple readings throughout the day

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Converted the numbers OP's device so that it now reads as watts/m2 all distances @ 30cm (except where specified)

1. 100 watts normal incandescent light bulb no reflector
2. cheap consumer led reflektor bulb 2700k 530 lumen
3. cheap consumer led no reflector 2700k 1000 lumen
4. cheap fluorescent tube brezel type 55 watt clear white with reflector
5. Osram L18W/865 fluorescent tube no reflector distance 10 cm
6. cheap LED Spotlight with reflector bright white 14 Watt distance 37 cm
7. CREE CXA 3590 2700k 700mAmp constant current with white lidl reflector
8 noon total cloudy no sun partly raining outside reading

400 450 500 550 600 660 785nm
1 38 150 130 100 95 53 12
2 56 22 19 15 14 7 2
3 56 21 18 14 13 7 2
4 130 52 45 34 32 18 4.5
5 50 20 17 13 12 7 1.6
6 88 36 28 22 22 12 3
7 800 320 270 210 200 115 26
8 30 130 100 80 75 42 10


Might be an error or 2 but generally, they are on point... Wow look at the significant difference between CXA 3590 and natural light (although granted it was cloudy but still)

 

[wietefras]

and empties his purse all over the thread lol

He also insists that the more people disagree with him, the more right he must be. We're all just haters afterall.

Either way, with specific leds adding to a white COB you should be able to produce pretty much any desired spectrum. Especially the (royal) blue range is one of the easiest and most efficient to fill.

The thing is though that all kinds of tests have shown that the blue to red ratio of the sun is not the most efficient. Not even close.

 

[nfhiggs]

Damn I wish I was better at conveying what I meant because this is exactly what I meant in one of my previous posts lol



I think that is a big part, but I also think because there is a constant supply of Co2 outdoors I think that is the other factor



Same here, which is why I asked OP to take multiple readings throughout the day

Actually indoor CO2 levels (in a house) tend to be higher than outdoor, simply due to our respiration.

 

[Serva]

Lol, yesterday there was a guy talking about the top colas growing faster because it is closer to the light...
Lol, wonder(no, not really) why it does the same thing outdoors ... the difference 3 feet make to sunlight must be immeasurable.

Because the plant is producing auxin in the tops, which inhibits the growth below. It's like THE reason why you train a plant, the foundation of SCROG. Thats why you need to keep your tops all the time at the same height to get an even canopy.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Actually indoor CO2 levels (in a house) tend to be higher than outdoor, simply due to our respiration.

All good in theory except in reality most people do not sit inside their indoor gardens/growrooms.

In my opinion, low Co2 levels in indoor gardens is actually a major issue except most people do not realize how much so.

Try growing with supplemental Co2 indoors and I guarantee you will notice the difference in terms of both yield and quality.

Outdoors plants have got access to a continual/fresh supply of Co2, hence why, in my opinion they can take higher light levels and grow significantly larger outdoors.

 

[nfhiggs]

All good in theory except in reality most people do not sit inside their indoor gardens/growrooms.

In my opinion, low Co2 levels in indoor gardens is actually a major issue except most people do not realize how much so.

Try growing with supplemental Co2 indoors and I guarantee you will notice the difference in terms of both yield and quality.

Outdoors plants have got access to a continual/fresh supply of Co2, hence why, in my opinion they can take higher light levels and grow significantly larger outdoors.

If you have good air turnover in your grow space, CO2 levels *should* be pretty much equivalent to whatever it is in the room (and most likely the rest of the house) - most homes are going to have something in the range of 500-1000 PPMs. It really does not take much respiration to drive up the CO2 levels in a room (and subsequently an entire house), when you are starting out with atmospheric levels of .04% (400 PPMs) - your breath is about 40000-60000 or more PPMs by comparison.

I don't doubt that SOME people don't have adequate air turnover in their grow spaces, which would tend to lower CO2 levels, but getting above outdoor levels is not terribly difficult in a home grow. And outdoors you are NEVER going to get over 400ppm. I just don't see CO2 as being the reason for the OP's noted observance - unless his grow space is under-ventilated, which of course, IS a possibility.....

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

I don't doubt that SOME people don't have adequate air turnover in their grow spaces, which would tend to lower CO2 levels, but getting above outdoor levels is not terribly difficult in a home grow. And outdoors you are NEVER going to get over 400ppm. I just don't see CO2 as being the reason for the OP's noted observance - unless his grow space is under-ventilated, which of course, IS a possibility.....

What about all this "Alleged" pollution, killer smog and ever-rising Co2 levels....Tbh there was a time I took things at face value Like the quoted 400ppm Nowadays I am not so sure, I mean how can it never be above 400ppm yet year on year the levels are consistently rising and have been for as long as I can remember.

All I know is the ones who have spoon fed us Co2 only gets to 400ppm outside are the same ones who tell us, Co2 levels are continuously rising so which one is it?

As far as I am concerned right now the 400ppm is speculative based upon the contrary narratives we are being spoon-fed, but I would like to test it someday just to see what it really is, maybe it is but right now I am sitting on the fence on that one.

 

[ANC]

Because the plant is producing auxin in the tops, which inhibits the growth below. It's like THE reason why you train a plant, the foundation of SCROG. Thats why you need to keep your tops all the time at the same height to get an even canopy.

I know that.

 

[nfhiggs]

What about all this "Alleged" pollution, killer smog and ever-rising Co2 levels....Tbh there was a time I took things at face value Like the quoted 400ppm Nowadays I am not so sure, I mean how can it never be above 400ppm yet year on year the levels are consistently rising and have been for as long as I can remember.

All I know is the ones who have spoon fed us Co2 only gets to 400ppm outside are the same ones who tell us, Co2 levels are continuously rising so which one is it?

As far as I am concerned right now the 400ppm is speculative based upon the contrary narratives we are being spoon-fed, but I would like to test it someday just to see what it really is, maybe it is but right now I am sitting on the fence on that one.

Well, its easily testable with current technology, so I don't doubt the accuracy of the number - I'm just not so sure about the accuracy of past measurements - or the greenhouse theory itself.

 

[nfhiggs]

Well, its easily testable with current technology, so I don't doubt the accuracy of the number - I'm just not so sure about the accuracy of past measurements - or the greenhouse theory itself.

The atmospheric levels are relatively stable at around 400 PPM, but it does fluctuate with the seasons - but its only by around 9 PPMs.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Anyone that has a ppm meter will tell you indoors is always higher , regardless of supplementation== People, pets, gas appliances/waterheater, candles,closed windows, etc. I average double in the winter(700-900) compared to my outdoor readings(350) in philly.............. Now if you live in shanghai,mumbai,shenzen,mexico city maybe it's a different story I shouldn't make light of pollution but i'm an asshole

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

I'm just not so sure about the accuracy of past measurements - or the greenhouse theory itself.

Just out of curiosity what brings you to the path of uncertainty, with regards to greenhouse theory?

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Anyone that has a ppm meter will tell you indoors is always higher , regardless of supplementation== People, pets, gas appliances/waterheater, candles,closed windows, etc. I average double in the winter(700-900) compared to my outdoor readings(350) in philly.............. Now if you live in shanghai,mumbai,shenzen,mexico city maybe it's a different story I shouldn't make light of pollution but i'm an asshole

I hear ya, but try growing some plants in a room within a room, where the room is shut off from the rest of the house most of the time, then stick a load of mature plants in there and watch the Co2 levels plummet.

I did not realize how much of an effect low Co2 had on plants until I started supplementing at 1500ppm using a bottle, solenoid and timer, talk about seriously healthy plants, then it dawned on me... "of course".... what is the typical dry mass composition of a plant, in particularly Carbon and Oxygen, and guess what between the two it is 90%, so 90% of a plants dry weight (45% carbon and 45% oxygen) is met by 2 elements.

Now if you think about it the ground and atmosphere outside are full of carbon and oxygen, therefore it is my opinion that plants outdoors readily have access to carbon levels higher than 400pmm especially if they are in Shenzhen and Mexico...Woohoo Look I am an asshole too ahahaha!

 

[Stephenj37826]

All good in theory except in reality most people do not sit inside their indoor gardens/growrooms.

In my opinion, low Co2 levels in indoor gardens is actually a major issue except most people do not realize how much so.

Try growing with supplemental Co2 indoors and I guarantee you will notice the difference in terms of both yield and quality.

Outdoors plants have got access to a continual/fresh supply of Co2, hence why, in my opinion they can take higher light levels and grow significantly larger outdoors.

I have tested this. I own a data logging CO2 monitor and yes if you have good air turnover the CO2 was generally well over 500 ppm at all times.

 

[nfhiggs]

Just out of curiosity what brings you to the path of uncertainty, with regards to greenhouse theory?

Just naturally skeptical I suppose. I'll just leave it at that.