Amy Vilela for Nevada's 4th

[abandonconflict]

It's ignorant to imply it's racist to suggest that a group of people voted against their self interest

There wasn't much implying about it. It is absofuckinglutely racist what went down in this thread to insist that after all these decades of struggle (Selma was about voting rights) for racial equality that black people don't know what is in their own best interests.

That is about as racist as anything that I have seen on this forum and I have seen slurs, racial evolution arguments, cranial capacity arguments, blatant fascism, it's all been tried here.

 

[Fogdog]

Are you suggesting it's somehow racist to discuss what social justice solutions to the problem you lend priority resonated the most with the African American community between the Democratic candidates?

Because that would be pretty bizarre...

Holy crap. The presumptuousness of your posts is amazing. You asked me what black people thought. Specifically about Clinton's and Sander's policies. I'm interested and aware of what is being said by members of those communities. I can post links to some articles I've looked up as a result if this discussion. I can post some links if you like and we can discuss those articles. Personally, I'd feel foolish trying to speak for somebody who has had a completely different experience than me.

I voted for Sanders. I thought he was the better choice. I liked his policies. Other people disagreed. Sanders wasn't perfect. My side lost. I moved on.

You support kicking social justice warriors to the curb. Why should I debate social issues with somebody who doesn't value them? If you want, I will be glad to debate why social justice issues are important to the overall health of this society. But I'm not going to speak for anybody but myself.

It's ignorant to imply it's racist to suggest that a group of people voted against their self interest

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that dismissing the ability of millions of African Americans to decide what is in their own best interest is racist and reeks of white privilege.

 

[Fogdog]

There wasn't much implying about it. It is absofuckinglutely racist what went down in this thread to insist that after all these decades of struggle (Selma was about voting rights) for racial equality that black people don't know what is in their own best interests.

That is about as racist as anything that I have seen on this forum and I have seen slurs, racial evolution arguments, cranial capacity arguments, blatant fascism, it's all been tried here.

It boggles me too. I never would have thought that I would read something like this.

It's my guess that a black man wouldn't be surprised.

 

[abandonconflict]

It boggles me too. I never would have thought that I would read something like this.

It's my guess that a black man wouldn't be surprised.

Ever heard of Ajamu Baraka?

 

[Fogdog]

Ever heard of Ajamu Baraka?

nope.

 

[abandonconflict]

nope.

You should check him out. He's a Vietnam (infantry draftee) vet and has been a black liberation activist for decades. He has written a lot about prison reform and has critiqued just about every major politician as brutally as he could. He doesn't mince words but he is very eloquent.

 

[Fogdog]

You should check him out. He's a Vietnam (infantry draftee) vet and has been a black liberation activist for decades. He has written a lot about prison reform and has critiqued just about every major politician as brutally as he could. He doesn't mince words but he is very eloquent.

just looked him up on Wikipedia. Any links you'd care to share? I'll do some hunting about for more.

Just looking at some of his statements, completely justifies my refusal to speculate about what "the blacks" think about Bernie. Still, he's one voice of many. Pad apparently doesn't understand that his issues aren't the most important to others.

 

[abandonconflict]

just looked him up on Wikipedia. Any links you'd care to share? I'll do some hunting about for more.

Just looking at some of his statements, completely justifies my refusal to speculate about what "the blacks" think about Bernie. Still, he's one voice of many. Pad apparently doesn't understand that his issues aren't the most important to others.

He has a website full of articles he's written, some have been published by other media outlets. He was Stein's VP pick but I like him far more than her.
https://www.ajamubaraka.com/

 

[abandonconflict]

https://www.ajamubaraka.com/the-yemen-tragedy-and-the-ongoing-crisis-of-the-left-in-the-united-states

He roasts Bernard and the berniebros in this one. I think he is actually a little too harsh but keep in mind that this is a passionate man who has seen battle and has dedicated his life to making the world better for oppressed people and is vehemently opposed to war. The berners basically employed every dirty trick in the book to trash him after it which was far more harsh than he was to them.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I'm saying that dismissing the ability of millions of African Americans to decide what is in their own best interest is racist and reeks of white privilege.

If it's racist to suggest that African Americans voted against their own self interests, what is it when the same thing is said to a white person who voted for someone like Trump? I've said exactly that to Trump voters, and I know damn well pretty much every liberal on this board has said similar.

Why is it racist? Can we not have a conversation about a certain demographic? Is it off limits for me as a white person to discuss anything related to the black community? How else would I learn about what issues are important to them without asking questions and having my preconceived notions challenged?

I'd say the same thing about the gay community, elderly voters, etc if the circumstances were the same. Would that be met with such anger?

 

[UncleBuck]

I've spoken to many different people of color about Sanders.

LOL, nice try. come up with a better lie though.

 

[UncleBuck]

What is Hillary Clinton's solution to this problem?

Sanders supports paid maternity/paternity leave. He supports raising the minimum wage to $15/hour, universal healthcare and education. All positions that would disproportionately benefit minorities and women. Explain how that isn't in accordance with their best interests?

explain to me why you think black people want to earn 80% of what whites earn, but just at a slightly higher income bracket.

 

[londonfog]

If it's racist to suggest that African Americans voted against their own self interests, what is it when the same thing is said to a white person who voted for someone like Trump? I've said exactly that to Trump voters, and I know damn well pretty much every liberal on this board has said similar.

Why is it racist? Can we not have a conversation about a certain demographic? Is it off limits for me as a white person to discuss anything related to the black community? How else would I learn about what issues are important to them without asking questions and having my preconceived notions challenged?

I'd say the same thing about the gay community, elderly voters, etc if the circumstances were the same. Would that be met with such anger?

Try telling me again how blacks didn't vote for Bernie because he is a Jew....and you wonder why you are called stupid

 

[UncleBuck]

I'm asking you what was Hillary Clinton's solution to the social injustice problem you're claiming Sanders failed to effectively convey to minorities?

to not ignore it completely, like bernie did.

 

[abandonconflict]

If it's racist to suggest that African Americans voted against their own self interests, what is it when the same thing is said to a white person who voted for someone like Trump?

Who says that? I have said plenty of times that a poor person who voted for trump voted against their own interests.

 

[londonfog]

That's your opinion. I've spoken to many different people of color about Sanders, they all show virtually unanimous support for his policies when asked on an individual basis. St0w asked a pretty reasonable question; what in Sanders' platform is harmful to African Americans? Most of them saw Clinton as pandering to the black community, she even asked a panel of black people if it was working.

All you fucking Bernie Babies talk a like. People of color ? Is that the same people who eat only fried chicken ?

When I born, I black.
When I grow up, I black.
When I go in sun, I black.
When I scared, I black.
When I sick, I black.
And when I die, I still black.

And you white people.
When you born, you pink.
When you grow up, you white.
When you go in sun, you red.
When you cold, you blue.
When you scared, you yellow.
When you sick, you green
And when you die, you grey…

And you calling me colored??

 

[UncleBuck]

the bernard sandlers solution for the black community:

current situation: black man doing the same job as a white takes home $22k a year, white earns $28k a year.

bernard's solution: $15 min wage, black man now earning $30k a year! white man gets $36k a year now.

problem solved! racism over.

 

[UncleBuck]

the bernard sandlers solution for the black community:

current situation: black man doing the same job as a white takes home $22k a year, white earns $28k a year.

bernard's solution: free college! they both go to college and get the same degree and get new jobs. black man now earning $40k a year! white earns $50k a year for the same job.

problem solved, racism over.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Try telling me again how blacks didn't vote for Bernie because he is a Jew....and you wonder why you are called stupid

Did you miss the part where I said "that's a good question, I don't know"? I then went on to speculate possibilities.

I threw Bernies religion out there because I've been told many times that religion is an important thing to many African Americans. Mabey some people had a problem with his religion? Many people (not necessarily black people) had a problem with Romney because of his religion. Why would Bernie be any different? You don't think that there weren't any people that passed him over because he's Jewish? Anti-semitism is dead in America? Black people aren't capable of holding any prejudices?

My takeaway from all of this is that a genuine conversation cannot be had about the subject. I hold no animosity towards any group of people. I treat everyone I meet in life with respect, no matter their race/ethnicity/religion/sexuality until they give me a reason to think otherwise. Here I am though being told that I'm racist...by fellow "liberals" none the less.

Are you capable of having an adult conversation without the name calling? You don't talk that way to people in person, so why do it here?

 

[UncleBuck]

Try telling me again how blacks didn't vote for Bernie because he is a Jew....and you wonder why you are called stupid

did blow-A-goat really suggest that blacks wouldn't vote for bernie because he's a jew?

holy shit these bernie babies are racist as fuck.