How the wealthy constantly screw the poor

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The demand to drop identity politics was the first thing berners said after the election. I thought I was talking to a Republican when @st0wandgrow started ranting about how that was "why" Clinton lost. Also Democrats must give up on social justice if they want to win the WH ever again. It still resonates a cognitive dissonance. What is Democracy without people forming groups to advocate for their own common goals amidst and sometimes against others?
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Social justice issues are not at the top of my list of priorities when it comes to a presidential candidate. I freely admit that. I care a great deal about equality for gay people, and police brutality towards African Americans, and islamiphobia. I do care about those issues, but when considering where to cast my vote for the potus those issues take a back seat to stuff like overturning CU, Medicaid for all, climate change,and our hawkish foreign policy of dropping bombs on people's heads. It's not a winning strategy in this country, like it or not.

Now, that's not to say that I would vote for an openly racist turd like Trump even if he espoused all of the issues that I deem important. I felt that Bernie represented what I believe in, and he certainly didn't strike me as being prejudiced towards any group or class of people.

You guys trot out your "purity test" argument against Bernie supporters, but from where I sit it's actually the likes of you that demand strict adherence to your values...and if someone doesn't stand in line behind you they are mocked and pestered non stop. I've never seen so many people labeled as racist in my life.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Bernard is an imperialist sheepdog. He's a fake socialist who has objectively done more harm to the left than any other politician in modern history. He tried to be a Eugene Debs, but Debs is rolling in his grave. I'm not attacking you for supporting him, I don't care who you support. I'm not asking you to respond to my criticism of him. I'm not obligated to answer false dichotomies and loaded questions, or any question for that matter.

I do however appreciate your restraint regarding name-calling where the other guy showed none.
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Calling you a whining poo flinger is a description, not an insult.

If you don't like it, don't act like that.

For the 47th time, I don't agree with all of Bernie positions, but HE'S THE CLOSEST to my preferred positions and I'm not in the least ashamed to say I support him until someone better comes along. Someone you can't/won't name while still flinging poo at everyone who does support him.

I've called you out as part of the problem and I will continue to do so until you stop being part of the problem. That's MY prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to call out @Fogdog and @UncleBuck for their disingenuous positions.

It's called a debate and if you can't handle the heat, the door is an easy mouse click away.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Social justice issues are not at the top of my list of priorities when it comes to a presidential candidate. I freely admit that. I care a great deal about equality for gay people, and police brutality towards African Americans, and islamiphobia. I do care about those issues, but when considering where to cast my vote for the potus those issues take a back seat to stuff like overturning CU, Medicaid for all, climate change,and our hawkish foreign policy of dropping bombs on people's heads. It's not a winning strategy in this country, like it or not.

Now, that's not to say that I would vote for an openly racist turd like Trump even if he espoused all of the issues that I deem important. I felt that Bernie represented what I believe in, and he certainly didn't strike me as being prejudiced towards any group or class of people.

You guys trot out your "purity test" argument against Bernie supporters, but from where I sit it's actually the likes of you that demand strict adherence to your values...and if someone doesn't stand in line behind you they are mocked and pestered non stop. I've never seen so many people labeled as racist in my life.
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:clap::clap::clap::clap:

You and I are in complete agreement about everything you've said in this post.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Social justice issues are not at the top of my list of priorities when it comes to a presidential candidate. I freely admit that. I care a great deal about equality for gay people, and police brutality towards African Americans, and islamiphobia. I do care about those issues, but when considering where to cast my vote for the potus those issues take a back seat to stuff like overturning CU, Medicaid for all, climate change,and our hawkish foreign policy of dropping bombs on people's heads. It's not a winning strategy in this country, like it or not.

Now, that's not to say that I would vote for an openly racist turd like Trump even if he espoused all of the issues that I deem important. I felt that Bernie represented what I believe in, and he certainly didn't strike me as being prejudiced towards any group or class of people.

You guys trot out your "purity test" argument against Bernie supporters, but from where I sit it's actually the likes of you that demand strict adherence to your values...and if someone doesn't stand in line behind you they are mocked and pestered non stop. I've never seen so many people labeled as racist in my life.
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Fine.

I wrongly quoted you as reference for berniebaby claims that we must abandon identity politics. The thesis I was objecting to is one where confronting racist Trumpanistas or offending them Democrats were going to stay in the wilderness. It was @Padawanbater2 that was ranting on about it. Not you.

My apologies.

Edit/one last thing: There are limits beyond which a person can't go and keep my respect. Racism, overt or otherwise is one of them. Racism or bigotry are evil and will draw my fire every time. The berniebaby claim that southern black voters weren't as well informed as other voters when they held the primaries that sank Bernie's bid for the nomination stinks of that.
 
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abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Social justice issues are not at the top of my list of priorities when it comes to a presidential candidate. I freely admit that.
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That's great. However, these alt leftists are making threads and fellating eachother about blaming black voters and idpol for Trump being elected. Then they follow people around and go into diatribes of insults and fallacies at anyone who doesn't worship their lord Bernie Sandiwch in a way very reminiscent of how the Paulbots did a few years back. It's nice and eloquent and reasonable when you come back and say "social justice is important and here's my paltry homage to your struggles" but the fact is, the berniebabies around here are the ones who want the liberation stuff to go away so that some of you can get your free college. Berniebabies are the ones making threads to blame black voters for Trump's election.

So I'm not really moved by the attempts to pander when they're followed by "please keep your idpol to yourself".

ttystikk said:
For the 47th time, I don't agree with all of Bernie positions...
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Good for you. I never asked you for a first time. You're the one who followed me around with insults and name-calling because you're so butt hurt.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Fine.

I wrongly quoted you as reference for berniebaby claims that we must abandon identity politics. The thesis I was objecting to is one where confronting racist Trumpanistas or offending them Democrats were going to stay in the wilderness. It was @Padawanbater2 that was ranting on about it. Not you.

My apologies.
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No apology necessary, but thanks.

Let me ask you a question:

If everyone here that identifies as "liberal" were to create a list of the 15 most important issues that you want a candidate for potus to champion (1 being most important to you, and 15 being least important) I'd be willing to bet that almost all of the lists would be nearly identical. What would differ is where we arrange those issues on our list. Does that matter to you? Should it matter?
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Licensure and regulation (government constructs) are what disallow the emergence of real competition in a given market.


A free market rewards excellence and provides consumer value. An unfree market featuring government rules will always be skewed, since it reduces the amount of potential service provides, thus stifling innovation and causing protected prices to the detriment of the consumer.

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Right, but you agree that we need regulating bodies for safety reasons, correct? Things like seat-belts, airbags, and warning labels came about because of governmental regulation. The testing required to develop a product that is mostly safe is very expensive. Do you think that companies would still continue to develop safe products if they weren't required to by law? I don't think they would, and I believe with deregulation the cost of goods to the consumer would remain the same while the executives of the major manufacturers line their pockets with newfound profit.

I agree that to enter certain market sectors without being diverse is challenging for businesses in a monetary sense, but don't forget that those product testing regulations exist with the intention of keeping consumers safe.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
bernie, who took $6+ million dollars in superpac money, was your guy for getting superpac money out of politics?
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Citation?

He was not affiliated with any PAC. A PAC run by a nurses union (which existed long before he decided to run for potus) supported him and ran some adds, sure. How would he go about avoiding that?

Did he accept any direct donations?
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
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Well buck, if you weren't trying to be disingenuous, or weren't completely clueless of campaign finance laws, you would have worded that differently. Bernie didn't "accept" any money from any super PAC. In fact no candidate did. It is illegal for super PACs to give any direct donations to political campaigns. Most candidates (including Hillary) endorse super PACs that work on their behalf, but Bernie did not.

So yeah, there were a couple super PACs that supported sanders (which he did not endorse), and sent out some mailers and whatnot on his behalf, but he did not "accept" anything from them.

You try so desperately to smear the man. It's pretty funny.
 
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