Shall I scrog or not ?

[lee6]

Hi all. I've been debating a grow for the last few years and now I'm finally going ahead with it.
I'll be growing in a 8ft x 4ft x 8ft tent with the intention of having 8 plants under 2x 600watt led with the scrog set up using a 6" 300cfm fan & Rhino carbon filter.

I've done my fair share of research into how to scrog and although a lot of people saying it's more for the advanced growers, I'd like to go that route first and give it a try. The problem is I already have 6 autoflowering seeds (I purchased last year but never got round to it).

So the question is:-

A) Do I use these auto seeds for a straight forward grow with no Scorg and gain the experience ?
OR
B) Do I use the auto seeds for a grow with scrog (I've heard autos aren't the best for scrog)
OR
C) Do I buy new seeds that aren't auto and go ahead with my original ideal.

Seems silly to not use these auto seeds seen as I already have them, if it's any difference they are;
Fastbuds-West Coat O.G,,, Fastbuds-California Snow,,, VIP-Seeds Auto Afgani,,, Pyramid Seeds-Super O.G Kush,,, Biodiesel Mass & Delicious Dark Purple.

Thanks for any advise,
Lee

P.s Does my set up sound about right ?

 

[Chrisz0825]

Hi all. I've been debating a grow for the last few years and now I'm finally going ahead with it.
I'll be growing in a 8ft x 4ft x 8ft tent with the intention of having 8 plants under 2x 600watt led with the scrog set up using a 6" 300cfm fan & Rhino carbon filter.

I've done my fair share of research into how to scrog and although a lot of people saying it's more for the advanced growers, I'd like to go that route first and give it a try. The problem is I already have 6 autoflowering seeds (I purchased last year but never got round to it).

So the question is:-

A) Do I use these auto seeds for a straight forward grow with no Scorg and gain the experience ?
OR
B) Do I use the auto seeds for a grow with scrog (I've heard autos aren't the best for scrog)
OR
C) Do I buy new seeds that aren't auto and go ahead with my original ideal.

Seems silly to not use these auto seeds seen as I already have them, if it's any difference they are;
Fastbuds-West Coat O.G,,, Fastbuds-California Snow,,, VIP-Seeds Auto Afgani,,, Pyramid Seeds-Super O.G Kush,,, Biodiesel Mass & Delicious Dark Purple.

Thanks for any advise,
Lee

P.s Does my set up sound about right ?

The thing about scrogging is you wanna use a plant you can top so you can fill out the canopy. Autos veg for a month I believe? So if you top an auto it's gonna slow down but still won't delay when she flowers. And if you don't top, she's gonna grow right on up past the scrog to the point you might as well just take the net down. I would advise against scrogging autos based on the fact that they just won't reach the optimal size you want them to be to really benefit from the scrog before they flop to flower. I'm running a scrog right now and they are in wk 6 of veg and they have at least another month to go before I flip to flower.

 

[HydoDan]

Start those autos and get some growing experience.. Then maybe try scrogging...dependent on success...
Always start with a plan.. but have alternatives...

 

[MickFoster]

Personally I would start with a photo instead of an auto. Autos are best for experienced growers that can take a plant from start to finish without problems. Beginners usually but not always, have problems which adversely affects yield. With a short and uncontrollable life span, no mistakes can be made with autos. What is the actual wattage out of the wall for your 600w led's?

 

[Dynamo626]

Personally I would start with a photo instead of an auto. Autos are best for experienced growers that can take a plant from start to finish without problems. Beginners usually but not always, have problems which adversely affects yield. With a short and uncontrollable life span, no mistakes can be made with autos. What is the actual wattage out of the wall for your 600w led's?

Great question. Was going to ask myself.

 

[lee6]

What is the actual wattage out of the wall for your 600w led's?

I'm not to sure I was looking at using the mars 600watt x2 led lamps. I'm not sure if this is correct but it says in the spec; True watt 292watt + 10%/110v. And in reply to the other comment yeah I agree that autos don't have a long enough veg period to get the full potential out of a scrog system that's why I'm hesistant to go ahead with it. I might just buy new seeds and throw these in the ground and see what makes of them aha

 

[sub1427]

agreed with previous posts... just grow a regular photo... veg it for a month.. get her nice and fat... scrog em out... fim, top, LST, youll have colas for days... I bought 50 autos thinking I'd love growing em.. not the case.

 

[MickFoster]

I'm not to sure I was looking at using the mars 600watt x2 led lamps. I'm not sure if this is correct but it says in the spec; True watt 292watt

That won't be enough light for 6 plants in a 4x8 tent - you will need at least one more.

 

[Dynamo626]

All you had to do was say mars hydro. Ugggg another lured by there dishonest marketing. I know there is nothing you can do now. You need 400 to 460 watts of blurple led to equil a 600w hid. Only cob leds near that 200% efficiency. (300w to get that 600w equivelancy) dont pay for anymore of them. Dont scrog autos lst at mo

 

[lee6]

All you had to do was say mars hydro. Ugggg another lured by there dishonest marketing.

Glad I mentioned this and asked the question then! No I haven't bought the lights yet as I'm in the preparation stage. I'm swaying more towards LED due to the lack of heat they give off and due to it being setup in my loft, you get the drift.

What LED setup is recommended I.e which is the brand to look for ?

Thanks for the many replies

 

[JeffSessions]

So you're talking about dropping $4k+ on your grow room and you're wondering if you should spend $100 on some new seeds?

Seems like a real dilemna.

 

[Dynamo626]

Depends on your budget if possable get cobs. Personaly i would do two 630de cmh's or three 315's. If you have to have non cob led's look for spectrium king, bml/fluience, calafornia lightworks, or blackdog platnum (which barley makes the cut)

 

[Dynamo626]

So you're talking about dropping $4k+ on your grow room and you're wondering if you should spend $100 on some new seeds?

Seems like a real dilemna.

Haha good point but many prefer to run bag seed or whatever they already have for a first run. 4K? An entire setup for a 4x8 tent with 2 growers choice 630 de cmh would be less than 2k

 

[Dynamo626]

Oooo ooooo or maby a 1000w cob on a light rail! Cant wait untill the kids are out of the house and i can expand from my lil 4x4 tent into a 10x10 room. Sooo many options to consider

 

[coreywebster]

Glad I mentioned this and asked the question then! No I haven't bought the lights yet as I'm in the preparation stage. I'm swaying more towards LED due to the lack of heat they give off and due to it being setup in my loft, you get the drift.

What LED setup is recommended I.e which is the brand to look for ?

Thanks for the many replies

Stay away from blurple panel LEDs. You would need about the same true wattage that you would use for HPS and your results wont be as good. Your heat would be the same since you would have the same wattage. Plus you cant air cool those Mars lights like you can with HPS.

I run a 8x4x8, I used to use 3x 600w in cooltubes although I could of managed with 2x 600w. I could manage heat 99% of the year, I ran an 8" fan and filter. I would recommend a bigger fan then you can always use a speed controller, better to have more than you need and not use it than the other way around.

I run 660w of Cobs on my left side of my 8x4x8 and 560w (+) of Quantum boards on the right side these days. Less wattage is less heat, plants are happy but if I were to add anymore wattage I wouldn't be able to keep temps in range. I cant hook these lights up to air cooling. I could modify an air cooled hood.. But that's a different story.

Then you have CMH but the 315s arnt going to cut it in there as the footprint is 3x3 at best for flower.

If it were me I would insulate the loft, duct into a chimney stack and go with air cooled HPS unless you have the budget for Cobs or similarly efficient LEDs. I would recommend them to anyone but the price, although coming down, is not everyones cup of T.

You really need to get the hot air out of your house, you wont be able to run an 8x4 to its full potential by venting the heat back into the loft. Depending on where you live the loft can be crazy hot, people can die if trapped in there in summer.

Edit, Lee if you can use a soldering iron you can build a cob light. If you want I can price up a DIY build for half your tent so you know what to expect.
Of you can buy from most of the advertisers here in the LED section.

 

[lee6]

So you're talking about dropping $4k+ on your grow room and you're wondering if you should spend $100 on some new seeds?

Seems like a real dilemna.

$4k+ ? Haha, no I think your maths has let you down there mate. I've planned the whole set up to come to around £600. But yeah, the main point of this thread is weather or not it would be worth using the Auto seeds or not. From what people has said it would make more sense to use photo seeds

 

[coreywebster]

$4k+ ? Haha, no I think your maths has let you down there mate. I've planned the whole set up to come to around £600. But yeah, the main point of this thread is weather or not it would be worth using the Auto seeds or not. From what people has said it would make more sense to use photo seeds

For scrog no don't use auto. Just use your seeds and let them do there thing then get some photo periods.
It depends greatly on what you think a scrog is. Its not just a few plants with some netting thrown across like lots of folks seem to do these days. Its a training method which involves weaving all those branches into a net and having nothing below, maximising the space you have with the minimum plant count.
You cant do any of that properly with Autos. You can top them but results are unknown, you cant trim off the lower stuff because it slows the plant down and effects harvest, so with those things in mind it would be a waste of your seeds and a waste of a scrog.

 

[lee6]

Stay away from blurple panel LEDs. You would need about the same true wattage that you would use for HPS and your results wont be as good. Your heat would be the same since you would have the same wattage. Plus you cant air cool those Mars lights like you can with HPS.

I run a 8x4x8, I used to use 3x 600w in cooltubes although I could of managed with 2x 600w. I could manage heat 99% of the year, I ran an 8" fan and filter. I would recommend a bigger fan then you can always use a speed controller, better to have more than you need and not use it than the other way around.

I run 660w of Cobs on my left side of my 8x4x8 and 560w (+) of Quantum boards on the right side these days. Less wattage is less heat, plants are happy but if I were to add anymore wattage I wouldn't be able to keep temps in range. I cant hook these lights up to air cooling. I could modify an air cooled hood.. But that's a different story.

Then you have CMH but the 315s arnt going to cut it in there as the footprint is 3x3 at best for flower.

If it were me I would insulate the loft, duct into a chimney stack and go with air cooled HPS unless you have the budget for Cobs or similarly efficient LEDs. I would recommend them to anyone but the price, although coming down, is not everyones cup of T.

You really need to get the hot air out of your house, you wont be able to run an 8x4 to its full potential by venting the heat back into the loft. Depending on where you live the loft can be crazy hot, people can die if trapped in there in summer.

Edit, Lee if you can use a soldering iron you can build a cob light. If you want I can price up a DIY build for half your tent so you know what to expect.
Of you can buy from most of the advertisers here in the LED section.

That's a brilliant reply. I'm just going to do abit of research into this cob led that's been mentioned. I've no idea what this is as of yet but seen some 1000w COB led lights on eBay for around £150 each. There probability about as good as the mars ones to be fair but I'm going to look into what "cob" is.

In response to your Edit; yeah I can use a soldering iron and it would be absolutely brilliant if you could price that up for me mate

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Have you ever grown?

 

[lee6]

For scrog no don't use auto. Just use your seeds and let them do there thing then get some photo periods.
It depends greatly on what you think a scrog is. Its not just a few plants with some netting thrown across like lots of folks seem to do these days. Its a training method which involves weaving all those branches into a net and having nothing below, maximising the space you have with the minimum plant count.
You cant do any of that properly with Autos. You can top them but results are unknown, you cant trim off the lower stuff because it slows the plant down and effects harvest, so with those things in mind it would be a waste of your seeds and a waste of a scrog.

Completely agree with you. Since posting this I've realised there is no slowing down an auto like you can with a photo and it just wouldn't be worth while.

I think the whole thread has turned into my lighting worry now more than the initial scrog idea aha.