Choosing a mother

[George2324]

I could use everyone's opinion on finding the best genes.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing let me know if I'm on the right track.

I plan on using co2 with 1500 ppfd of light so

I plan on starting 40 beans
As soon as they get first set or leaves hit them with 1/4 strength nutes and medium level light. Probably around 400 ppfd and normal co2 levels

Veg for a week at 1/4 strength.

Second weeek up to 1/2 strength nutes and 800 ppfd and double co2 around 600-800ppm

Third week 3/4 strength nutes and 1000 ppfd and 1000 ppm co2

Fourth week full strength nutes and 1200 ppfd 1200 ppm co2

Flip to flower

Week 1 3/4 strength flower nutes 1200 ppfd 1200 ppm co2

Week 2 full strength flower nutes 1500 ppfd 1500 ppm co2 and continue full strength until week before harvest.

If I do this and any beans that get bleached from light, or get nute burn get binned.

Would this work to help me find decent genetics for what I am to do?

I'm looking for a big yielder also but I figure if a plant can't process the 1500 umol then it more than likely won't yield big?

Cheers

 

[Underground Scientist]

Ambitious, but yeah, I've got a few pointers.

Be careful hitting seedlings with 1 set of leaves at "1/4 strength"

If you only veg those beans 4 weeks, that probably won't be long enough to see preflowers, which usually show around week 6. Which means if you haven't culled any by then, you need to take clones from all 40, and a bunch you're just going to toss later for being male. Not to mention, if you flip to flower, you'll want to be in your final pot size, so a bunch of media, nutes, time and effort will be wasted. Starting to get the picture?

My advice is to veg 6 weeks or until preflower. Ditch the males if you just want to do mother selection.

Grow manageable runs. Say like 10 or 12. If you have space you could star new sets every few weeks. Take pics, weed out the less vigorous ones. Take clones before you flip to flower. How they flower are going to determine your ultimate mom selection as well, so grow em out and see. You'll probably have several candidates for mom's in the wings until you narrow it down. It's a process...lol...good luck and have fun with it.

 

[George2324]

Thanks for the input.


I will be using feminised seeds so won't need to cull males.

I use hydro so they will always be in their final pot size.

Do you think I'll end up burning all the seedlings at 1/4 strength?

 

[klx]

You have been given good advice above. Rather than using a rigid weekly schedule for your plants, look at them and go by that. Keep the nutes and the light weak until they have the 3rd set of true leaves and a good spray of roots before upping them.

Make sure they have reached sexual maturity before cloning them and flipping them. Keep clones of every plant you flower because the shittiest looking plant can turn out to be the fire, you never know until after harvest. Are they all the same strain? If not you are going to have different flowing times for them as well. 1500 ppfd is a total waste of energy even with co2 imo but each to their own.

Popping beans is fun but its a few months from seed to weed.

 

[George2324]

The reason for hitting them with high nutes and high light and co2 from early on is to cull out the ones that can't handle it.

Surely if I keep nute solution weak then I'm not culling any.

The one that survives would be my mother?

Is this not how some people do it?

 

[Underground Scientist]

The reason for hitting them with high nutes and high light and co2 from early on is to cull out the ones that can't handle it.

Surely if I keep nute solution weak then I'm not culling any.

The one that survives would be my mother?

Is this not how some people do it?

I'm not claiming to be a breeder or anything, but I think there's more to it than that. Regardless if your giving maximum light and nutes, some are going to be more vigorous than others. On top of that, pheno selection could be certain ones have a different smell or different terpene profiles. Some have different plant structures, like more prolific branching, or a tendency to have fatter buds, to frost up exceptionally well.

Again, I'm not to the breeding level, while I have breed and done seed runs, but I've watched some dudes who breed and have brushed through a book on it that I intend to read again. The Cannabis Breeder's Bible by Greg Green.

So I'm not sure light hogging, nute whores are the necessarily the best phenos of a particular strain.

 

[OldMedUser]

High George

Picking plants to use for a mom is/can be pretty complicated.

If all you want is one that will handle the vigorous conditions you plan to grow them under and yield the most then by all means follow the plan you set out. Take note about each plant grown from seed and you should get at least one good clone from each because at the end of the run you'll want to sample the bud to help make your final decisions.

I've been making crosses and hunting for the plants that have the best medicinal qualities for what ails me for 15 years. Mostly I've been growing sativa dominants but after buying some high CBD pot from a compassion club and making cocobudder with it I'm off on a new direction working with those strains. The high is secondary to the relief but I really like the buzz from it too. Happy, relaxed and feels more like being a bit drunk than stoned off my ass.

A lot of expensive seeds being sold now are just F1 crosses that any grower can make on their own. Then they sell them for the same prices as ones where the grower has worked with a strain thru multiple generations and hundreds of plants to find the ones that have just the right combination of traits he/she is after. Then they stabilize that strain to be able to sell seeds that give consistent results. Won't get that until at least the F4 stage. I've yet to put that much effort into my breeding.

 

[Daniel Lawton]

High George

A lot of expensive seeds being sold now are just F1 crosses that any grower can make on their own. Then they sell them for the same prices as ones where the grower has worked with a strain thru multiple generations and hundreds of plants to find the ones that have just the right combination of traits he/she is after. Then they stabilize that strain to be able to sell seeds that give consistent results. Won't get that until at least the F4 stage. I've yet to put that much effort into my breeding.

I guess I was naive. I thought we were usually buying F1 seeds, produced from some mythical P1 seeds someone was maintaining in a dutch paradise (near the redlight district I hope).

I got some very good seeds from one of the most popular online sellers, and all of them grew PERFECTLY.

But when I crossed 2 varieties (forced pollen on one), I got more variation than online genetics articles would suggest for an F1 cross.

Now admittedly, I crossed 2 different kinds. Old rule in electronics engineering; never test 2 things at the same time if you can help it, it's too hard to figure out when it goes wrong.

So maybe if I cross 2 of the same type, bought from a reputable dealer, I'll get more predictable seeds?

Or is cloning to get S1 seeds the only safe way to make reliable seeds from purchased seeds?

 

[George2324]

I am looking for a heavy yielder that won't get nute burn easily and can take in all the light I want to provide it.

I don't see how a plant can be a big yielder if it burns above 700 ppfd and gets nute burn at 400ppm surely?

As it seems the genetics I have in my mother at the moment is burning if I go above 500 ppm on the x500 chart which is insane.

Week 3 of flower and 500ppm and instant burn and lockout.

Everything else is in check PH, temps, humidity etc.

My new sealed room with 1500 ppfd will be ready in a few weeks so I figured I best get looking into finding a good pheno.

At the moment I use a critical mass cross. And plan to stick with it for the yields

 

[morgwar]

You want an efficient plant so if it burns below 500ppfd that means its possibly got lower light needs due to better more efficient photosynthesis (genetic trait!)
Also if one plant nute burns faster than the one next to it, but showed the same level of growth, again the nute burned plant may have a better efficiency at nute absorption rate, pointing again to better genetics.
I shoot for a plant (when breeding my tomatoes) that has, 1 low nutrient demand, 2 low light needs(incase of shading and over crowding), 3 high production!
You can have all three.

 

[morgwar]

Your creating an eating machine your way, better to run for efficiency IMHO
Also with the f1s, if the parents are both "Worked" strains, the you'll have less work to do. But f2 opens up the gene pool which is good and bad.
Good in that you have the chance to cherry pick traits that the previous "breeder"
May not have liked but work for your needs.
Bad in that you have to search through a few dozen to a thousand plants for the one you grew as f1.
To speed things up you can back breed or BX to f1 but that weakens the gene pool and brings up recessive traits and inherent genetic diseases at times

 

[George2324]

How would you recommend I find a big yielder then?

Bare in mind I use RDWC so all genes have shared reservoir so I can't really adapt different nute levels for different plants which is why I thought sticking to nute system would be ideal.

 

[Underground Scientist]

How would you recommend I find a big yielder then?

Bare in mind I use RDWC so all genes have shared reservoir so I can't really adapt different nute levels for different plants which is why I thought sticking to nute system would be ideal.

Pick genetics known to be heavy yielders. Start growing and cull the ones that show poor growth. Pick the best group to flower and clone and ID each one. Flower, weigh harvests, pick the clones of the best performers, repeat until one or a small group stands out, continue production. It may take time to learn and dial in your conditions to your strain. Reading forums dedicated to the breeder you got your genetics from. Find the dudes growing those genetics really well and learn.

 

[Danielson999]

Find a strain you think hits all your checkmarks and talk to the breeder. They usually know exactly what their plants need.