veg+bloom constant mag deficiency

[im4satori]

jronnn

you make a fair point

I apologize for my part in side tracking your post

if it was me

I would either do what I suggested in posts #16 and #17

or a better idea would be to use magnesium nitrate

magnesium nitrate would allow you to add magnesium without adding sulfur from magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt) nor raising the calcium with a cal mag product



this actually looks really good

plenty of N, low P and magnesium is close to half of what the calcium is

and your DWC plant will love the little bit extra calcium that's still there

im sorry for all the banter... I just don't see the need to add more calcium and sulfur jacking the EC up

you can buy magnesium sulfate at plenty of places

here is where I get mine

https://customhydronutrients.com/magnisal-magnesium-nitrate-c-1_48_30.html?zenid=1e0b9764f89a80bf9f246a3495cc477c

billing info simply says CHN on your statement and the shipping is plain box

 

[im4satori]

so that's
4grams / gallon maxi
0.75 grams/gallon magnesium nitrate

the magnesium nitrate only has magnesium and nitrogen... the 2 elements you need and none of what you don't

it still worries me that they don't list zinc..................................but ive recently notice several companies aren't listing micros that are likely in the mix

 

[im4satori]

jronn

I just went back to double check things because I don't want to tell you bad info

im starting to understand why there adding so much cal mag on top even if they don't!

the maxi product hardly has any iron in it at all.... so again add huge dose of calcium and sulfur using calmag to get the iron up... that whats being suggested

im sorry you would be better off with another fertilizer

if you are bent on using it you can do what those guys do

I can post another pic of the calculator that adds iron for you
you can get the iron from the same web site
https://customhydronutrients.com/10-iron-dtpa-chelated-one-pound-p-86.html?cPath=1_50_100

and you can use the maxi the way I would if I had too

 

[im4satori]

it might be difficult to measure the smaller increments for the iron depending on the amount you mix

if theres zinc in it you could do this... and its good! if theres not zinc in it then you also have to add zinc, we just don't know
maxi 4grams per gallon
magnesium nitrate 0.75 grams per gallon
iron DTTP 0.075 grams per gallon

but honestly theres other fertilizers out there

 

[im4satori]

https://www.amazon.com/Liquinox-3032-Chelated-Solution-32-Ounce/dp/B0063PG40G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1484725448&sr=8-4&keywords=liquid+iron+fertilizer

this might be an option also if we new how much % of iron and zinc was in it

 

[im4satori]

if you want to follow what those guys are doing

im betting it looks something close to this maybe

you might be able to lower the Epsom salt depending on how much the high calcium affects your Mg uptake

youll need to use a good bit of calmag to get your iron up to something acceptable and its still on the low end

you can look at the numbers and see your calcium will be very high and your sulfur will also be very high pushing the active element number up which is the same thing as saying your EC will be up there from the excess

 

[polishpollack]

if jronnn's fert works in dwc, I'd say the issue has to do with ebb and flow doing something to its plants that isn't taking place in the dwc plant. jronnn, please put up new pics taken in white light from a small distance and close up so we can see both the ebb and flow plants and your dwc plant. I need another look that is current.

 

[im4satori]

so jronn
im curious to know how your plants turned out?

 

[adower]

I use veg bloom exclusively. Your low at 1.2 ec. I feed at 2.0 and my plants don't burn. Raise your ec and drop you ph into a better range to absorb mag.

 

[jronnn]

so jronn
im curious to know how your plants turned out?

hey thanks for checking up. theyre okay, i still have some lower leaves dying but i guess thats because they arent getting light, im actually going to start trying beneficial bacteria and mycos because i been doing a sterile res. i had a question for you though... why is it that some people grow monster plants in 6" rockwool cubes without slabs or anything with great yeilds but when you ask someone what size pot youd need to grow a plant the same size in rockwool croutons or hydroton they say you need atleast a 5gallon?

 

[jronnn]

I use veg bloom exclusively. Your low at 1.2 ec. I feed at 2.0 and my plants don't burn. Raise your ec and drop you ph into a better range to absorb mag.

really in flower you run it that high too? do you use their bloom booster shine? you never get calmag deficiencies either?

 

[adower]

really in flower you run it that high too? do you use their bloom booster shine? you never get calmag deficiencies either?

Yes I run it that high in flower. I run 1.5ec in veg. I have tap water with .4 ec out of the tap so I use the hard water version. I do not use any bloom boosters or additives. I haven't had any calmag deficiencies and I've been using veg bloom for at least 2 years

I thought about using their additives but I don't know how they could improve much on the results I am getting with the base nutrients only.

Edit. I am also running a sterline reservoir.

 

[adower]

hey thanks for checking up. theyre okay, i still have some lower leaves dying but i guess thats because they arent getting light, im actually going to start trying beneficial bacteria and mycos because i been doing a sterile res. i had a question for you though... why is it that some people grow monster plants in 6" rockwool cubes without slabs or anything with great yeilds but when you ask someone what size pot youd need to grow a plant the same size in rockwool croutons or hydroton they say you need atleast a 5gallon?

No one is growing monster plants in a 6" rock wool cubes alone.

 

[jronnn]

Yes I run it that high in flower. I run 1.5ec in veg. I have tap water with .4 ec out of the tap so I use the hard water version. I do not use any bloom boosters or additives. I haven't had any calmag deficiencies and I've been using veg bloom for at least 2 years

I thought about using their additives but I don't know how they could improve much on the results I am getting with the base nutrients only.

Edit. I am also running a sterline reservoir.

No one is growing monster plants in a 6" rock wool cubes alone.

i use the r/o version and my tap is so low it doest measure on my ppm pen.... im going to start trying to use their foliar supplement instead of using calmag. but some people are most certainly using 6" rockwool and growing big plants, you ever heard of the jungle boyz? theyre known for being one the best growers in the country and they using a 6" cube from start to finish.

 

[im4satori]

soil and rockwool or soiless are completely different

you can grow in very small rockwool cubes and water frequent or larger cubes and water less frequent and yield is not a direct reflection on root size

soil the root size has a direct impact on yield

its a longer explanation
I will look quick and see if I have some literature I can copy you maybe

 

[im4satori]

EC above 1.5 is not something I recommend for any grow style

some people do it and claim its better, some people claim the have to feed that much
im not going to argue it

feeding an EC of 2.0 its not likely youd be deficient in anything cuz its likely too much of everything

I will just say, in my experience its too much

soil or anything that buffers will handle higher EC feeds than hydro but it usually requires more flushing
meaning some guys water plain water and only add nutes 1x per week
someone else might add water with nutes 2x per week
the soil acts like a retention space storing nutrients and the plant select's what it prefers from the buffet
whatever is not used (excess)get set aside or rinsed out on the next plain watering

its just a whole different process all together

 

[im4satori]

I grown larger ass plants in small cubes many many times

 

[jronnn]

I grown larger ass plants in small cubes many many times

soil and rockwool or soiless are completely different

you can grow in very small rockwool cubes and water frequent or larger cubes and water less frequent and yield is not a direct reflection on root size

soil the root size has a direct impact on yield

its a longer explanation
I will look quick and see if I have some literature I can copy you maybe

thank you that makes sense, i actually had a mother plant in in hydroton and it was in the same 2 gallon for like 6 months but the clones did seem to get a bit thinner over time. I had another rquestion for you though if you dont mind...im actually doing hydroton continuous top feed (watering starts 45min after lights turn on and stops 45min before the lights shut off) and im about to try 8 plants on a 3x6 tray under 2 600w (aero clones) vegged for around 4 weeks and scrogged/lollipopped and hoping to eventually get it dialed into pull 4 zips off each plant using high yielding indica doms. do you think this yield is possible to achieving using a 7in square pot like this one with hydroton? its dimensions are. Top width 7", bottom width 4.5", 9" tall. they have them in 6, 9 and 12in as well. would it be better to veg with the 6 and the transplant to the 9 right before flower or do you think it could it all be done in a 7in?

 

[polishpollack]

jronn, there's a difference between growing hydro in a pot, which is DWC, and flood and drain tables which is what is shown in those pics. You asked about growing in a pot and were told 5 gallons minimum, which is typical. flood and drain tables provide more oxygen to the roots after draining.

 

[im4satori]

thank you that makes sense, i actually had a mother plant in in hydroton and it was in the same 2 gallon for like 6 months but the clones did seem to get a bit thinner over time. I had another rquestion for you though if you dont mind...im actually doing hydroton continuous top feed (watering starts 45min after lights turn on and stops 45min before the lights shut off) and im about to try 8 plants on a 3x6 tray under 2 600w (aero clones) vegged for around 4 weeks and scrogged/lollipopped and hoping to eventually get it dialed into pull 4 zips off each plant using high yielding indica doms. do you think this yield is possible to achieving using a 7in square pot like this one with hydroton? its dimensions are. Top width 7", bottom width 4.5", 9" tall. they have them in 6, 9 and 12in as well. would it be better to veg with the 6 and the transplant to the 9 right before flower or do you think it could it all be done in a 7in?

I don't know that I can answer your question as you have asked it but maybe I can help you sort out the answers for yourself

when speaking in terms of increased yield id say the largest factor other than genetics is light
more light equals more yield up to a point...but more light also equals more heat control issues

as far as plant spacing.. you can fit as few or as many plants into a space as you want...
fewer plants equals more veg time to fill the space

for example
1000 watts of a 4x4 area
16 plants in a 4x4 area might only veg 1 week, maybe less
4 plants in a 4x4 area might veg 4 weeks

both will yield the same

i wouldn't want to transplant hydroton if i could help it

you could grow a plant in the 7" pot thatll fill a 2ftx 2ft area
but if your able to use a slightly large pot do it, theres no harm that's for sure

im not sure i got a full picture of your set up.. im wondering though would you be better off with net pots?

is this aero or flood and drain, or a top drip set up?... im just not getting a clear picture