Anyone here inoculating with Mammoth P?

HighdeanHigh

HighdeanHigh

Active Member
I heard an interview on the dude grows show and these people sounded pretty smarty and stuff. It's supposed to be a microbe mix that is geared towards phosphorus liking/producing/breaking down little micro helpers ;)

The store I went to today had a sample but was keeping it at the store so I haven't used it yet. Was wondering if anyone here got to use it before it went to market? and if you thought it helped out when used with your pre existing microbe mix or if you cut out your old microbes and used only mammoth p?

I use recharge and the veganic og tea. And everything is going great with my earth juice nutes.. But I'm really interested in what a side by side would show
 
K

kodesh

Member
I also use Earth Juice and recharge (tried OG Tea and didn't notice a difference, though I already brew a lot of my own teas). I went through a few sample bottles of Mammoth on my last run, which happens to have been my best yet. Was it the Mammoth?... Perhaps, or maybe it was just that the environment was just right. Still, I perceived enough of a difference that I'm going to get the big bottle and give it a full run.

I had the chance to chat with a few of the guys from Mammoth and they said that since these are different species of microbes there was no problem using it along side your other innoculants, including recharge without reducing dosage. The did say I should be able to reduce my Phosphorus though (I add extra bone meal).

I've tried just about every innoculant out there, excluding the stuff from AN. From EJ Rooter's Mycos, plant success, Mykos/Azos, Oregonism XL, Orca/Great White, Root Web Star, BioAg VAM, MycoGrow...

Here's what I'm keeping:
BioAg VAM: with every transplant and throughout Veg.. I like this one because it's endos only, no ectos or trichoderma. Some believe it's better to allow your slower growing endos to get established before introducing the more aggressive trichoderma.

Recharge: during transition and throughout bloom.

Pending further testing, Mammoth P: I use Nectar of the God's Bloom Khaos to boost calcium uptake and as a result use a lot of Bone Meal (0-10-0). This seems like the perfect combo.
 
HighdeanHigh

HighdeanHigh

Active Member
Wow! Thank you very much! Good call on holding off on the trichoderma for a while... I'll check out that bioag and possibly copy you ;).

I first used earth juice back in 2002 and recently added meta k and microblast (used to used liquid karma) to their grow, bloom and cat bottles. Is that what you are using?

BTW, they sell the grow, bloom and cat bottles at home depot in colorado
 
K

kodesh

Member
Yeah, I can't say I've noticed a huge difference with VAM in veg vs recharge, other than in my wallet.. VAM 1kq is ~$30 for me and lasts for ages, 16oz recharge is like $25 for me and I can easily use one or two a month depending.

I'm using the original 5 EJ bottles, plus molasses, silica and some other stuff like teas, bone meal, and roots HPK (liquid guano/langbeinite). I also used Liquid Karma for a loooong time, but have switched to using separate soluble seaweed powder (Spare Time Supply), BioAg Ful-Humix, BioAg Ful-Power and aminos (Athenas Aminas or whey protein isolate powder).

I arrived here by looking for the best and/or most cost effective input for each "job," while still being available off the shelf. I simply don't have the time/space right now to do organics "right" and do full on composting and soil mixing, but I do want to know just what I'm feeding my soil and my plants. I also wanted to avoid proprietary formulations and mystery tonics. That way everything is modular. If a product I use is discontinued or out of stock or the formula is changed, no big deal I just grab another bag or bottle that will do the same job.

My method is very much overkill in terms of how many products and supplements I use, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it lol. You can absolutely get stellar results just going straight down the feed chart with EJ or any other line so I'm not arguing against the traditional wisdom of "don't mix organic/synthetic and don't mix nutrient lines." I just love to tinker, and with organics it seems the more inputs the better as long as overall you're not overfeeding.

I settled on EJ as my main line because it's cheap, easy to use, low salt, and produces solid quality and yield all by itself. They're also very transparent about what is in the bottle and how it works, so when you do start playing with other amendments and supplements you don't have to guess if you're giving too much or too little of something because it's not listed on the bottle.
 
HighdeanHigh

HighdeanHigh

Active Member
I'm in the same boat with the time and space thing. That's why I love these inoculates. Really appreciate it again. Just wandering why and how much molasses you put in your mix. I've just counted the catalyst as my molasses all these years :)


I have been looking into silicas lately. Narrowed it down to a few. For some reason, when I first read about using cilities, it scared me away for some reason. That was a long time ago and everyone that I talke to that uses the right type of silica in the right amount is loving it.

Btw. If you type in the name of a product followed by ;Msds it will usually tell you way more about the ingredients. That's how I found out that rapid start is made of willow extract and is "natural" not sure how my living soil is liking it though
 
K

kodesh

Member
I use more carb sources than anyone I know lol. Not necessarily advocating it for everyone but I like giving my microbes a buffet of every type of nutrient/food input I can. I see little difference in mixing my nutes and brewing an AACT really, just with a traditional tea I can use more dry ingredients and it takes longer. Otherwise I'm still trying to give the plant the right amount of nutrients and boost the soil microlife with each feeding.

I use coconut syrup (my favorite, has active enzymes aminos etc), molasses (very good, super cheap, lots of trace minerals and vitamins but enzymes and other goodies have been cooked off), Catalyst I believe has value as a natural growth enhancer beyond just being a carb source, aaaand I even throw in some Canna Boost (got a nearly full 5L jug free, so why not lol) depending. I typically use Catalyst or Boost every watering and molasses or coconut syrup maybe a couple times a week at like 1TBL/gal.

Since going organic I've tossed all rooting stimulants. I just make a very mild tea with my regular nutes for seedlings, clones and young plants... Like for a 5gal, 1 Tbsp EJ Bloom, 1Tbsp EJ Grow (brings my ph down just right), some molasses or coconut syrup, 1/2tsp kelp, maybe some aminos or humics if I'm feeling crazy. Then VAM or Recharge... between the mycos and all the natural growth hormones in the kelp I don't think any of those proprietary root juices are worth the cash. Ymmv ofc.

Great find on the MSDS by the way! We keep a database at work but man, that's soooo much easier.
 
K

kodesh

Member
Oh and on Silica from what I can tell they are all mostly the same. I just grab whatever seems like the highest concentration for the cash. Last time it was GH ArmorSi. I've also used Silica Blast and ProTekt. I personally don't like the extra cheap AgSil 16 powder because it likes to clump up before I can use it all.

The one silica product that looks really interesting to me is Aptus Fasilitor. It's the only one that isn't just a liquid potassium silicate (needs to break down in the soil a bit), but is supposedly immediately available. TBH I don't see why that's a big deal, but lots of folks I know have been raving about it so it has me curious.
 
HighdeanHigh

HighdeanHigh

Active Member
From my reading, silicates are not made equally and there are a few forms of them... really need to find a nice book about them.. the grow more silica looks to be quality with a decent price.

I am doing a side by side test on the rapid start to see if it does anything positive or negative. Since its willow extract... im calling it organic.. I've never grown with salt based fertilizer, but my friend swears up and down that he gets dramatic growth when using rapid start with his canna a and b.

Figured I'd try it out, but yeah, expensive as heck. Ivery been lucky the past few years to be able to consult and work in a ton of grow rooms here in colorado and my buddies is the best that I have seen so I thought I'd give it a try.

Grew in a prohibition state for over a decade so I really never got to compare what I do with others... my conclusion.. 80% of growers need to read more books and build up their common sense
 
doniawon

doniawon

Well-Known Member
Highis the shiteanHigh said:
From my reading, silicates are not made equally and there are a few forms of them... really need to find a nice book about them.. the grow more silica looks to be quality with a decent price.

I am doing a side by side test on the rapid start to see if it does anything positive or negative. Since its willow extract... im calling it organic.. I've never grown with salt based fertilizer, but my friend swears up and down that he gets dramatic growth when using rapid start with his canna a and b.

Figured I'd try it out, but yeah, expensive as heck. Ivery been lucky the past few years to be able to consult and work in a ton of grow rooms here in colorado and my buddies is the best that I have seen so I thought I'd give it a try.

Grew in a prohibition state for over a decade so I really never got to compare what I do with others... my conclusion.. 80% of growers need to read more books and build up their common sense
Click to expand...
Rapid start is a great product as is roots excellerator.

I want to see some mammoth p updates
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Ok Mammoth P-ers. I propose the following question/experiment: Mammoth P says the dont recomend using mammth p when you brew you Organic Tea, just add it in the end. Havent heard of any motivation,to me it sounds like they dont mind your bottle running out faster. So anyone tried just a bit of mammoth p, molases, maybe compost/guano, letting it bubble up and then dilute and feed to the plants. 200$ a liter is pricey and bacterias, well you can allways make more of them if you have them, just brew them up. Any takers/advice?
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Rocket Soul said:
Ok Mammoth P-ers. I propose the following question/experiment: Mammoth P says the dont recomend using mammth p when you brew you Organic Tea, just add it in the end. Havent heard of any motivation,to me it sounds like they dont mind your bottle running out faster. So anyone tried just a bit of mammoth p, molases, maybe compost/guano, letting it bubble up and then dilute and feed to the plants. 200$ a liter is pricey and bacterias, well you can allways make more of them if you have them, just brew them up. Any takers/advice?
Click to expand...
I don't use mammoth p...but i would assume you should throw it in at the end because the agitation that comes from the aeration probably kills off the bacteria, the same reason you don't add mycorrhizae to your teas.

But yeah after looking at the ingredients I imagine there's a cheaper alternative.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Soil amending nonplant food ingredients:

Active Ingredients
Bacteria Culture
1%
Other Ingredients
Alfalfa Extract
2%
Inactive/Water
97%
Also contains nonplant food ingredients:
CFU/mL
Pseudomonas putida
Comamonas testosteroni
Citrobacter fruendii
Enterobacter cloacae

So that's 97% water, and only four kinds of bacteria... How much did you say this stuff costs?!

You can make homemade Lactobacillus with rice and milk from your kitchen...that will give tons of beneficial bacteria. And I'm not sure what they add two percent alfalfa extract for but the occasional alfalfa tea will give your plant growth hormones.

And I'm assuming everyone already knows about water and where to get it. :)
 
iHearAll

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
EM1 or lactoserum reportedly is the same deal for a fraction of the cost. Mammoth D seems to be an attempt to capitalize off of the ignorance of cannabis growers and their loose wallets. Read up on activating EM1 or how to brew lactoserum like rastaroy suggested.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
iHearAll said:
EM1 or lactoserum reportedly is the same deal for a fraction of the cost. Mammoth D seems to be an attempt to capitalize off of the ignorance of cannabis growers and their loose wallets. Read up on activating EM1 or how to brew lactoserum like rastaroy suggested.
Click to expand...
well, I totally see what you are saying, but with my somewhat rudimentary understanding on the two I do think they are different though, yea?
one is a specific type of microbe (phosphobacterins in specific,bacterial microbes) that makes phosphorus more available to the plant (sorta akin to myco) while the EM1 is more anaerobic, and is more geared to rapid composting via fermenting or yeast, or "cleaning" up soil from contaminants

here is a copy/paste from a site in regards to the more specific aspects of it, but from what I understand they are in fact different things altogether

EM-1 contains these three types of microorganisms:
Lactic Acid Bacteria - This family of bacteria makes yogurt and cheese. They convert sugars into lactic acid. In doing so they lower the pH making conditions that inhibit growth of pathogenic microbes as well as making it impossible for methane producing microorganisms to survive.
  • Yeasts - Yeasts are single celled fungi such as those used in making bread and alcohol. They are fermentation starters.
  • Photosynthetic Bacteria - These bacteria are the ones that allow the other microbes in the mix to coexist. They use light to metabolize organic and inorganic substances. Drs Higa and Parr, in a paper called Beneficial and Effective Microorganisms for a Sustainable Agriculture, say the photosynthetic bacteria perform an incomplete photosynthesis anaerobically. They are especially beneficial as they can transform substances like hydrogen sulfide into useful substrates. As well, in the process water molecules are split yielding oxygen in the root zone.
As much as I hate to admit that a product like that being made by a hydro company could be effective, but if it contains what it says it does, it would be.

those microbial interactions are quite different than the mychorrizae as well

that all being said I ain't gonna go right out and pick me up some though
I first read about these lil guys in "teaming with nutrients"
cool stuff

Side note, it's kinda interesting that it uses photosynthetic anaerobic bacteria to break things down, weird that it needs light while simultaneously NOT requiring oxygen..
hmmm
 
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DonTesla

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Screen Shot 2017-05-15 at 9.10.22 AM.png
Effective, sure should be.

Wise and worth it? Another question.. 97% water and 1% bacteria..

I can produce about 350 gallons of pure Lactobacillus bacteria Serum for about $1, for example.

all storable in a 1 litre concentrate jar that wont expire if done right

I see you can spend like $1000 CAD on a bottle of this
 

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