Ethanol wash extraction.

[BobCajun]

Thanks, I guess all steel pipe would be best. BTW, apparently someone else also thought of triple point CO2 extraction, just on a very small scale.

 

[Fadedawg]

Thanks, I guess all steel pipe would be best. BTW, apparently someone else also thought of triple point CO2 extraction, just on a very small scale.

You're welcome, bon appetite!

It also needs to be an austenitic grade of stainless like the 300 series. Carbon steel loses its ductility below about -30/40C.

I remember seeing a video of that experiment, but not recently, leading me to believe it hasn't gone further, or someone is quietly working on a patent.

The same principle ostensibly wouldn't care if the tube was glass or stainless, beyond visibility, although it appears to me that the process might suffer from some of the same limitations we found playing with passive extraction loaned to us for the experiment. https://skunkpharmresearch.com/affordable-diy-co2-extraction/

For instance we found we needed a higher volume of CO2 exchange to efficiently extract. We also had issues with extracting along the full temperature/pressure curve, which might or might not be an issue at the triple point.

 

[BobCajun]

Oh yeah, I saw that page before, very informative. In that science demo I linked, they put the vial in water, 40-50 C, to melt the CO2. That way the container doesn't freeze up, though I guess it must still get pretty cold. Anyway, should probably stop the off topic discussion in this thread now.

 

[dynospec]

This guy used ss pipe for a DIY supercritical CO2 rig, and that must be higher pressure than 150-200 C water. In some states only non flammable solvents can be used, so this would be a good alternative to CO2 for them, depending how well the extract turns out. CO2 extracts aren't that appealing themselves, from what I've read (never tried them), so probably not that hard to improve on.

I gotta say Ive tried some Co2 extracts, and while they were really good, and I enjoyed them for both consistency, and potency there isnt as much of a flavor profile and it is expensive stuff. I think I 80$/.5g so its not worth it. If I were to buy concentrates again I wouldnt get Co2 extracts unless the price comes way down. In all honesty, from most of the online dispensaries you can order hash pretty cheap and make killer concentrates with that to keep the price down. but obviously if youre buying hash/bud as a only resort to make oil then you should probably re evaluate your situation lol

 

[BobCajun]

I guess they need to make back the cost of the equipment by charging high prices. Most of the commercial extractors are about the price of a car.

About the ethanol wash, alcohol probably is the best route to extracts. Easy to get, acceptable toxicity and quality extract if done properly. I'm going to switch to it from acetone or MEK. Can't really get those in very pure form cheaply or easily. Hardware store stuff probably isn't that great. It also comes in cans, which then have to be got rid of without looking suspicious. Alcohol bottles in the garbage looks a lot more normal, either liquor or iso. Maybe you like a lot of massages and maybe you're a common drunkard.

 

[BobCajun]

Good video on getting nice amber shatter with ethanol. He uses a blender with the bottom off and filter over the hole. It's basically like a BHO column but wider. You could just use a pipe to do it. The longer the column probably the better the extraction will be. The thing about this method is no agitation of the material, just pour through. Apparently freezing is also a key part of it. It would at least cut down on wax etc. Doubt you would really need to hold the ice cube over the bottle like he does though. Seems pretty awkward.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Cheers Bob it does look like he gets a quality extraction. Its not sitting in the ethanol so less chloroform in the mix.

Im wondering if he gets the most out of the trim though with such a short contact between the trim and the agent.

 

[BobCajun]

I found a new way to improve the process. At least it worked with 99% iso. I had some dried weed and I figured if I added enough water to get it pretty much filled up with water to the point where it has a leathery consistency, like about halfway dried weed would be, that the iso wouldn't be able to get into the material to extract chlorophyll and it would also not get soaked up, because no room in there to soak anything else up. This was a very small amount that I used as a test, like maybe half a gram.

So anyway I was able to swirl the iso around pretty vigorously and do three washes all mixed together and it came out transparent amber, no green at all. Can't say if it would be the same with sugar leaf or not, being more chlorophyll in it, but probably. No freezing either, all room temp.

Everybody else will tell to dry it right out first, like in an oven. What's gonna happen when you add alcohol to bone dry weed? It's gonna dissolve some resin and then it's gonna soak into that dry material because it's basically a dry sponge just waiting for something to suck up. So a bunch of your extract is going to be stuck inside that material and be impossible to pour off and there will be no way to retrieve it without also retrieving the thin green crappy internal oil, especially if it's sugar leaf trim.

I wouldn't freeze the wet material though, because then it will be brittle and break up too easily, releasing the internal oil. Just right as it is, at room temp, nice and flexible.

I've found that dry weed can absorb approximately 2 mls of solvent per gram of material before excess starts to puddle. That's how much is gonna be stuck in there. Yes, you could get it by doing a long soak and then use it for edibles but it would be a syrupy green oil and why lose all that resin that could have been premium amber shatter? By doing the exact opposite of what everybody else does, you'll get larger yields and also require less solvent to do it because it virtually all comes back instead of getting soaked up. There would be some solvent left on the surfaces in a very thin layer but after the third or fourth wash it's gonna be very low in resin anyway, almost pure alcohol. Maybe that's why you get way higher yields with rosin pressing than alcohol extraction. No solvent so nothing gets soaked in. And maybe butane doesn't penetrate as much as alcohol so that's why you get higher yields with that.

I haven't tried this on a larger scale yet but maybe you could get similar yields to rosin, like 25% instead of 10-15%.

 

[dynospec]

What youve been noticing is why Ive been switching to butane, and been quite happy with it atm. I find I get much better yield and quality when I use butane, more easily than other solvents. that is to say that I can get away with little lazy things that I still try to avoid with sizable runs, without such a substantial impact on the quality or yield. biggest issue is just searching for the perfect column to use as a extractor, haha.

Im definitely going to do a few trial runs with ethanol as the primary solvent, and also I want to winterize some stuff, running the solution through a .2 micron filter before evaporating just to see how much of a/if any effect it would have on final product

 

[BobCajun]

With butane or other non-polars moistening the material would have even more benefit than with alcohol, because they can't mix with water so it would be completely kept on the outside of the material. I did it with MEK, which is only partially water mixable, and got no green color. A safer non-polar solvent would be ethyl acetate. It's just ethanol and acetic acid combined, basically vinegar, not that bad or hard to get rid of, since it's volatile.

 

[dynospec]

Makes sense, Ive been doing some small runs of fairly fresh material lately (dried to almost ready-for-jars, then cured between 1-2 weeks tops, so still pretty wet but smokable) lightly packed, then in the freezer with the butane for at least a hour. Ive been getting stuff so light and delicious, with remarkable terpene profiles Ive been really proud of the quality of concentrate Ive been extracting lately. Ive had good results with ISO in the past, but the preparation and extra work just isnt worth it to me, especially when I much prefer the product I get with butane. I want to try other alcohols to see the difference first hand. Whats the MEK extraction like, and what would you say its pros and cons are? Sorry if you already posted and I missed it

 

[BobCajun]

Makes sense, Ive been doing some small runs of fairly fresh material lately (dried to almost ready-for-jars, then cured between 1-2 weeks tops, so still pretty wet but smokable) lightly packed, then in the freezer with the butane for at least a hour. Ive been getting stuff so light and delicious, with remarkable terpene profiles Ive been really proud of the quality of concentrate Ive been extracting lately. Ive had good results with ISO in the past, but the preparation and extra work just isnt worth it to me, especially when I much prefer the product I get with butane. I want to try other alcohols to see the difference first hand. Whats the MEK extraction like, and what would you say its pros and cons are? Sorry if you already posted and I missed it

Well the fact that people get very good results from fresh frozen material for BHO, obviously shows that wetness isn't a problem and may even be an advantage. But the volume of fresh material is inconvenient so it's best to have a more medium amount of water in it, like half dried, as I mentioned.

MEK worked fine, but it's stinky as hell. One advantage is that water will hold about 1/3 of it's volume of MEK and the rest will float. So what I did was simply add deionized water until most of the MEK was mixed with the water but there was still enough to float and keep the oil from dropping out. Then I separated the layers. You can get the volume of solvent that needs to be evaporated way down that way. Can't use anything plastic though, as it dissolves many plastics.

 

[dynospec]

Well the fact that people get very good results from fresh frozen material for BHO, obviously shows that wetness isn't a problem and may even be an advantage. But the volume of fresh material is inconvenient so it's best to have a more medium amount of water in it, like half dried, as I mentioned.

MEK worked fine, but it's stinky as hell. One advantage is that water will hold about 1/3 of it's volume of MEK and the rest will float. So what I did was simply add deionized water until most of the MEK was mixed with the water but there was still enough to float and keep the oil from dropping out. Then I separated the layers. You can get the volume of solvent that needs to be evaporated way down that way. Can't use anything plastic though, as it dissolves many plastics.

Yeah was just echoing how what you said about wetness was shown to be true in my recent endeavours


Neat, I dont think Ill try doing a MEK run anytime soon, although it would be fun for novelty purposes someday. I would like to try a RSO style run with naptha sometime soon, also just for the hell of it.

 

[ArcticGranite]

I use skunk pharms qwet process and reclaim the ethanol. Repeated freezing and filtering, (coffee filters) still produces a dark thick oil. I like that for it's deep heady narcotic effect. As an edible it's unsurpassed by anything else I've consumed. As a dab in a vaporizer it gets the job done but as dabs I prefer the color consistency and terpenes of bho.
I did a qwet run this weekend and it turned out as always, dark, thick oil. Yield was usual for me also. 120 grams of decent sugar trim yielded 12 grams of oil.
My yield is always what I'd consider low but okay, it's trim, and I want the edibles.
That got me wondering about ethanols saturation point. I've always used 1 liter of ethanol per 60 grams of trim. I saved all the washed trim and dregs from the filters and dried it. Then I used a 1qt mason jar and washed it for a couple minutes in butane and filtered it. After vacuum and drying it yielded 1.5 grams of some very dark oil.
It answered my question though. 1 liter of ethanol is enough to to wash 60 grams.

 

[gwpharms]

Yeah was just echoing how what you said about wetness was shown to be true in my recent endeavours


Neat, I dont think Ill try doing a MEK run anytime soon, although it would be fun for novelty purposes someday. I would like to try a RSO style run with naptha sometime soon, also just for the hell of it.

Try pure hexane instead of hardware store naptha if at all possible

 

[gwpharms]

I use skunk pharms qwet process and reclaim the ethanol. Repeated freezing and filtering, (coffee filters) still produces a dark thick oil. I like that for it's deep heady narcotic effect. As an edible it's unsurpassed by anything else I've consumed. As a dab in a vaporizer it gets the job done but as dabs I prefer the color consistency and terpenes of bho.
I did a qwet run this weekend and it turned out as always, dark, thick oil. Yield was usual for me also. 120 grams of decent sugar trim yielded 12 grams of oil.
My yield is always what I'd consider low but okay, it's trim, and I want the edibles.
That got me wondering about ethanols saturation point. I've always used 1 liter of ethanol per 60 grams of trim. I saved all the washed trim and dregs from the filters and dried it. Then I used a 1qt mason jar and washed it for a couple minutes in butane and filtered it. After vacuum and drying it yielded 1.5 grams of some very dark oil.
It answered my question though. 1 liter of ethanol is enough to to wash 60 grams.

Try carbon or bentonite if you want your extract to have the color consistancy and flavors of bho. See pictures below. It will be all the things your bho is only way more potent and effective as a dab vape edible or smokable. And safer and unquestionable if its ok to cosume witgout testing.
Theres ways to get your yeilds up too. The big orange circle is 4 oz of oil containing 89% d9 from 700 grams of trim. The trim for this run wasn't from great quality plants

 

[BobCajun]

Try carbon or bentonite if you want your extract to have the color consistancy and flavors of bho. See pictures below. It will be all the things your bho is only way more potent and effective as a dab vape edible or smokable. And safer and unquestionable if its ok to cosume witgout testing.
Theres ways to get your yeilds up too. The big orange circle is 4 oz of oil containing 89% d9 from 700 grams of trim. The trim for this run wasn't from great quality plants

What did it look like before the carbon? Can you explain in more detail how you do it please? That did look very light color.

 

[Fadedawg]

I use skunk pharms qwet process and reclaim the ethanol. Repeated freezing and filtering, (coffee filters) still produces a dark thick oil. I like that for it's deep heady narcotic effect. As an edible it's unsurpassed by anything else I've consumed. As a dab in a vaporizer it gets the job done but as dabs I prefer the color consistency and terpenes of bho.
I did a qwet run this weekend and it turned out as always, dark, thick oil. Yield was usual for me also. 120 grams of decent sugar trim yielded 12 grams of oil.
My yield is always what I'd consider low but okay, it's trim, and I want the edibles.
That got me wondering about ethanols saturation point. I've always used 1 liter of ethanol per 60 grams of trim. I saved all the washed trim and dregs from the filters and dried it. Then I used a 1qt mason jar and washed it for a couple minutes in butane and filtered it. After vacuum and drying it yielded 1.5 grams of some very dark oil.
It answered my question though. 1 liter of ethanol is enough to to wash 60 grams.

Most of the color is in the C-30 weight molecules, which are reduced by dropping the extraction temperature.

Strain also makes a difference.

Here is a Cheese QWET that we did in class and were in the process of volunteer panel testing.

 

[gwpharms]

It looked Like black rso.
I prefer fine mesh activated carbon filtration.
Its not for everyone, you would have to experiment and find a tequnique that works well for you without significant loss. Id recommended trying a little at a time and several filtrations at first. You will find as you start removing the chlorophyll you can make it red to orange to yellow to clear. You would need a vacuum filtration set up, ceramic buchner or glass fritted. Im not sure what you have available to you for filtering out the micron particles. I use celite 545 aw fc. Its actually rather hard for civilians in the US to get so that may not be an option. I wouldn't recommend standard diatomacious earth like you may see suggested in some of your research on this subject.
A ceramic buchner and glass sub micron filters may work for you. Lots of these companies selling short path and fractional distillate kits sell something with their vacuum filtration set ups thats probably attainable in your country.
Im sure you can get carbon or bleeching clay though.
And there is always subzero etoh if you have a sub zero cooler/chiller

What did it look like before the carbon? Can you explain in more detail how you do it please? That did look very light color.

 

[BobCajun]

Okay thanks for the info. So just a matter of keeping at it until it gets to the desired lightness of color. I've read that chlorophyll is strongly absorbed by carbon, which is why you can remove it without losing much if any product. Maybe due to high polarity.

Actually I just got an idea. I use AeraMax carbon filter pads for odor absorbing on fans. It's about 1/4" thick pad. Don't know what the material of the pad is but probably is safe in alcohol. Could just toss a piece in the container and leave it sit until the color gets light enough. I'll try it next time.