Perfect plant-shape under HPS

[Kassiopeija]

Ok, so I saw this TV report on legalized MJ in some US states and how some big capitalists are currently maximizing their output by different methods. I'd like to inquire into one specifically.

The owner of one of these businesses showed the TV crew a huge hall that was entirely filled with thousands of plants, and two caretakers working 24/7 on these plants. Their job was to pinch away or remove all unwanted stems or leaves so that the plant could only grow into a very specific form (that's how the owner described what these 2 persons were doing) but what he didn't say was why that was done (although I can assume it's to maximize yield in some way...) or HOW that form ultimately looks like. They also showed that these plants were under HPS lamps emitting somewhat reddish light.

So my question is - how is that form... and if there's a widely recognized perfect shape for these plants or are there different opinions? The way their plants (I assume still during the growth-phase) looked like they didn't have that many leaves, in fact they looked almost skeletal to me. I always thought that the more leaves you take away the more a plant will loose its ability to turn light into energy thereby stiffling its ability for future growth, but I could be very wrong on that...

Another question I have in mind as of lately is regarding the big air leaves - those that grow as first and come out of the main stem. Usually in the middle of the bloomphase they tend to get yellow, start wrinklign and then subsequently fall out, from bottom to the top in that order. I wonder how much do these leaves actually contribute to the growth of the buds themselves? Or are they only related to the growth of new stems and leaves? Thing is, but that may as well only be circumstatial, these leaves seem to fall out once the plant stopped growing new budsites after around 4 weeks once flowering has started.

 

[Kronickeeper]

Sounds like your describing lolli popping defoliation in a sea of green style set up.

 

[MediheaLed]

This reminds me of a style I just read about called "3 a light". From the little info I gathered , it sounds like you defoliate ALL of the fan leaves. This allows more light to hit the lower nodes straight to the bud sites. Indoors I believe defol. is more important than many think. Most growers stick what was taught to them. Never remove any foliage. Removing fan leaves supposed to create more branching and more bud sites.

 

[Kassiopeija]

Indoor light looses a lot of its strength once the plant -or only certain parts of it- grow too far away from the source. Outdoors that's irrelevant because the sun is already millions of miles away. So basically I was under the assumption that, indoors, you only wanted to let the top sites bud out and destroy all the others. I know of some extreme forms of this, like for example, "Mainlining" and somehow got the impression that the workers there were doing something related or similar. I just couldn't make out the final form because these plants all were still in the growth phase.

The thing is, compared to mine, they looked so skeletal - almost weak... But in another room (where it was harvest time) the plants had great budsites and most budleaves, and even some of the fanleaves, still stayed towards the light in healthy green (my fanleaves usually become yellow and fall away the more time passes during bloom, but that might also be related to a particular plants genetics...)

What's the book called which you are currently reading?

 

[MediheaLed]

I didn't read it. I saw an article of Cannabist or something. Theres this dude that claims if you follow his method and use his plant formula you too can grow three pounds a light! I looked it up but you have to buy it to see what it entails.
The weak look you speak of reminds me of a plant that is totally defoliated of all the fans. I strip them from the top to limit upward stretch of taller colas, but I have stripped some of main fans and they seem to look scraggly. I know defoliators say it gives you more of the donkey dick colas some crave. You could strip every fan leaf off of a plant you just started flowering and by the end of flower you would never know she was stripped.

 

[Owly]

I'm team keep the leaf. They are there for a reason. If they are turning yellow, that's because other parts of the plants need the nitrogen. If you cut that off they don't have that backup supply.
If the plants are so tall that they aren't getting light down under, veg them less and or train them out.

 

[ttystikk]

I've defoliated and I've left the leaves on. In my experience it made very little difference either way. That was the biggest surprise for me.

 

[Kronickeeper]

Indoor light looses a lot of its strength once the plant -or only certain parts of it- grow too far away from the source. Outdoors that's irrelevant because the sun is already millions of miles away. So basically I was under the assumption that, indoors, you only wanted to let the top sites bud out and destroy all the others. I know of some extreme forms of this, like for example, "Mainlining" and somehow got the impression that the workers there were doing something related or similar. I just couldn't make out the final form because these plants all were still in the growth phase.

The thing is, compared to mine, they looked so skeletal - almost weak... But in another room (where it was harvest time) the plants had great budsites and most budleaves, and even some of the fanleaves, still stayed towards the light in healthy green (my fanleaves usually become yellow and fall away the more time passes during bloom, but that might also be related to a particular plants genetics...)

What's the book called which you are currently reading?

Sound like they are lolli popping everything and trimming to where there is only tops left than defoliating what's left so light can hit all the way down each branch

 

[visajoe1]

I've defoliated and I've left the leaves on. In my experience it made very little difference either way. That was the biggest surprise for me.

no difference seems to be the consensus from what i've read from folks such as yourself that have done both. so, now, i only look for leaves that get stuck together and can condensate

 

[Kronickeeper]

no difference seems to be the consensus from what i've read from folks such as yourself that have done both. so, now, i only look for leaves that get stuck together and can condensate

Denser bigger l buds further down, plus increase in yield, 8ill say this defoliation was more necessary with the purple LED with cob it's penetrates a lot deeper so a good lolli popping and very light selective defoliation at the beginning gets about the same results so with HPS I would assume there wouldn't be a need for heavy defoliation either. If your using any of the purple LEDs it's a must though they just lack the penetration powe if your not scrog going you almost have to or you end up with just as much larf as useable buds

 

[Kassiopeija]

I'm team keep the leaf. They are there for a reason. If they are turning yellow, that's because other parts of the plants need the nitrogen. If you cut that off they don't have that backup supply.
If the plants are so tall that they aren't getting light down under, veg them less and or train them out.

Outdoors I would be very against removing leaves (or growing the plant into a specific shape because light gets weaker to its distance exponentially) but it can make some sense indoors. Many budsites below will never get any decent light at all, and I guess if buds DO actually form then its due to sugars etc being transported there from the top sites.

Did you ever encounter a strain that would keep its fan-leaves even til the end of harvest? Some people drain up to 3 weeks to remove mineral fertilizer and here Nitrogen may greatly missing. But what if one grows completely natural with teas and an active micro-culture?

I'm not quite certain if N-undersupply is solely responsible for yellow leaves (that subsequently wrinkle and fall off). I've seen plants in a state close to a Nitrogen-toxiticy where the small budleaves are darkgreen but still the bottem fan leaves will get yellow. Maybe the incentive to get rid of lightless leaves and to recycle all useable molecules is something a plant will do anyway regardless of the overall state of electrolytes in a plant? [just a theory on my part]

so, now, i only look for leaves that get stuck together and can condensate

because of potential mold/rot?

 

[visajoe1]

because of potential mold/rot?

yep, for pm concerns