Anti government in the politics section

twostrokenut

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
HAF2 said:
Anti government is anti government.

Limited government? Explain what you mean by that, it's ambiguous.
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It's a pretty simple concept you're not grasping here. Too many ants could be a problem. Having no ants could be a problem. They are not the same problem.
 
HAF2

HAF2

Well-Known Member
twostrokenut said:
It's a pretty simple concept you're not grasping here. Too many ants could be a problem. Having no ants could be a problem. They are not the same problem.
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I never said they were. I only spoke of anti government, Aka no ants.
You spoke of some ants, and I asked you to explain what you meant by that.
 
visajoe1

visajoe1

Well-Known Member
HAF2 said:
Congratulations on all your successes.
Although I do still feel financially successful people should pay their fair share of taxes. Basically you're saying the 25 people you employ who can afford less than you pay more in taxes than you do. Doesn't seem fair.
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Did I say that? Or are you trying to put those words in my mouth? You guys dont understand how taxes/deduction work is all. Both is money spent. Taxes goes 100% to gov, deductions is money spent on investments, rent, equipment, etc.

Would you prefer $1M be spent on your local economy fueling local businesses and jobs? Or do you prefer $1M sent to DC for politicians to get their grubby hands on it?

You guys could do this too. Its America.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
HAF2 said:
Seems like there should be a separate forum for the anti government folks.

Here in politics most people are discussing trying to get their elected government officials to work for them, and they realize they must live within the system to do it.

Then the anti government folks that want to live in a utopian government free society argue that no government is the way to go.

I'm not sure where you need to live to be in a government-free society. But arguing about it in a politics forum will always lead to a circular discussion that never goes anywhere.

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Feels like a pipe dream and not a real logical stance to take. If this is all about wishes I also would like to ride a dragon. Who do I talk to about making that happen?
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This is actually a very shallow argument. I will list reasons why.

1. You convey that you wish to be isolated from arguments which do not fall within parameters you accept.
2. You seem to define "realpolitik" as pro-govt while also equating anti-gov't with both utopian and anarchist. While the latter two may indeed be near synonymous, they are not the only views which oppose the government for what it is. That is not realpolitik. That is an imperialist ultimatum. Conform to parameters we accept or be marginalized, is what it sounds like to me.
3. Look where realpolitik has gotten us.
4. Today's empire is tomorrow's ashes. The only sane thing to do is to oppose this system.

If I have misunderstood your post, please let me know.
 
Justin-case

Justin-case

Well-Known Member
visajoe1 said:
Did I say that? Or are you trying to put those words in my mouth? You guys dont understand how taxes/deduction work is all. Both is money spent. Taxes goes 100% to gov, deductions is money spent on investments, rent, equipment, etc.

Would you prefer $1M be spent on your local economy fueling local businesses and jobs? Or do you prefer $1M sent to DC for politicians to get their grubby hands on it?

You guys could do this too. Its America.
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I would rather that money be spent locally, and not deducted because you idiots mentioned a jub over cheese burgers, derp.

You're not going to convince me you had that many business expenses. What about mortgages or personal items, you don't own anything that's not related to your business?
And you still have to pay your social security, no getting around that. And in fact, all this really isn't adding up, Joe.
 
HAF2

HAF2

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
This is actually a very shallow argument. I will list reasons why.

1. You convey that you wish to be isolated from arguments which do not fall within parameters you accept.
2. You seem to define "realpolitik" as pro-govt while also equating anti-gov't with both utopian and anarchist. While the latter two may indeed be near synonymous, they are not the only views which oppose the government for what it is. That is not realpolitik. That is an imperialist ultimatum. Conform to parameters we accept or be marginalized, is what it sounds like to me.
3. Look where realpolitik has gotten us.
4. Today's empire is tomorrow's ashes. The only sane thing to do is to oppose this system.

If I have misunderstood your post, please let me know.
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I was only pointing out how it's A little annoying at times trying to discuss what is the best for citizens (in our opinions) when one persons answer is "no government".

It's impossible to have a logical discussion that way. Because residing in North America there is a government whether we like it or not. And to facilitate change we need to operate within the system.

I'm not spilling hairs about what people call themselves, anarchist or antigovernment or whatever. Just that in politics, no government isn't a viable option.

Maybe if you lived on a wee island all by yourself.

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visajoe1

visajoe1

Well-Known Member
Justin-case said:
I would rather that money be spent locally, and not deducted because you idiots mentioned a jub over cheese burgers, derp.

You're not going to convince me you had that many business expenses. What about mortgages or personal items, you don't own anything that's not related to your business?
And you still have to pay your social security, no getting around that. And in fact, all this really isn't adding up, Joe.
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I dont expect you to understand it. You dont seem too bright. Nor do I need to or want to convince you. The IRS is the only entity I need to care about. And I'm fine.

Nope, I dont own a house. Zero liabilities. Liquid.

I could show you to do this. If you have 10+ years of dedication and can make sacrifices. Cheers bud
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
HAF2 said:
I was only pointing out how it's A little annoying at times trying to discuss what is the best for citizens (in our opinions) when one of persons answer is "no government".

It's impossible to have a logical discussion that way. Because residing in North America there is a government whether we like it or not. And to facilitate change we need to operate within the system.

I'm not spilling hairs about what people call themselves, anarchist or antigovernment or whatever. Just that in politics, no government isn't a viable option.

Maybe if you lived on a wee island all by yourself.

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It seems to misunderstand what anarchism is. You aren't to blame for that with people running around saying that anarchocapitalism is a viable thing and not an oxymoron. That would simply be to replace our gov't for private police, roads, etc. A better name for that would be feudalism. I can't agree more with you if you are suggesting we all ignore the people who think it is useful to spread misinformation regarding the viability and validity of such garbage.

However, I thoroughly disagree with this assertion: "to facilitate change we need to operate within the system." To be fair, I'm not suggesting a revolution where we replace a terrible and imperial state with nothing. I'm suggesting socialism that will lead to a final end to the privatized resources and infrastructure which characterize our society in its march toward ecological and environmental catastrophe. A final end to xenophobic nationalism, war and inequality.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
visajoe1 said:
what taxes do they pay haf?
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gas tax, sales tax, property tax, any other consumer taxes, plus about $12 billion per year into social security of which they will never see a penny back.

you are a douche of the highest order. worst sock we've ever had, possibly.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
visajoe1 said:
not a fact. a renter does not pay property tax. they pay rent.
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our family owns lots of apartment buildings all over the country.

if you don't think we work expenses like property taxes into their rent price, you are even dumber than i could have imagined, which is pretty mind boggling. especially considering i imagined you to be pretty fucking dumb.
 
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