Greed

[schuylaar]

Was Gordon Gekko right? Is greed good?

"Greed is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms, greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save [Teldar Paper], but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."

Do you think it's a good thing that a few years ago, 82 people owned as much wealth as 50% of the global population, then a few years later that number dropped to 62 people.. then, this year that number dropped to just 8 people.. There are 8 people with a combined wealth that equals more than 3.7 BILLION others.. Now, if you indeed think that's a good thing, please explain why

I think Gekko's speech is right. I think greed can and in many cases does lead to unimaginable innovation. No doubt about it. Money motivates people to create things and those things they create sometimes change the world. But he ignores the dark sides to greed, when an insurance company wants to save money so they deny a preexisting condition, when a car company decides to go ahead with the class action lawsuit because their financial advisors figured it would be cheaper than recalling all the vehicles and fixing them so people aren't killed instead.. or when a drug company decides to distribute known tainted product in 3rd world countries so they don't take the financial loss..

So what do you think?

False

70% are self made.

I understand your desire to hate on the spoiled brats of the world. But the truth is that most of these spoiled brats squander their fortune and redistribute wealth.

Bill Gates
Mark Zuckerberg
Warren Buffett

Did they earn it or ???

Their heirs will likely live a good life no doubt. Will they remain on top of the list? I dare say no fuckin way.

How did 3 get to be 70%?

Is that that new fangled Alt Math?.. The same formula used to calculate inauguration crowds?

 

[schuylaar]

how do you define "self made"?

a high school dropout born to wealthy parents does better in life than college graduates born to poor parents.

but it is cute to see a bunch of brokedick rednecks who will never get out of the bottom 20% idolize the wealthy as if they are this magical group of god-like figures.

That's actually NLXSK1's mOtto..join the wealthy JUST IN CASE YOU SHOULD BECOME ONE..

Asian, white, educated (finished college) and old.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-millionaire-odds/

 

[Big_Lou]

Is this a 'Muslim ban' (LOL) thread? Eh, either way....

The smiling-old-guy-eating-shortcake pic that I've shown a few times? Here he is in the swingin 60s, serving in local politics and enjoying the hookah:


(Looks like the old fellow in the pink chair has already puffed a bit.)

 

[Rob Roy]

Greed to me is obtaining that beyond which you need to live the lifestyle of your choosing within reason

How would you establish that boundary, what basis would you use to determine "within reason" ?

 

[Moldy]

Great article, highly relevant to the thread topic;

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/02/why-the-maximize-shareholder-value-theory-is-bogus.html

My favorite quote in the article, by economist Steven Pearlstein;

It is our social capital that is now badly depleted. This erosion manifests in the weakened norms of behavior that once restrained the most selfish impulses of economic actors and provided an ethical basis for modern capitalism. A capitalism in which Wall Street bankers and traders think peddling dangerous loans or worthless securities to unsuspecting customers is just “part of the game,” a capitalism in which top executives believe it is economically necessary that they earn 350 times what their front-line workers do, a capitalism that thinks of employees as expendable inputs, a capitalism in which corporations perceive it as both their fiduciary duty to evade taxes and their constitutional right to use unlimited amounts of corporate funds to purchase control of the political system—that is a capitalism whose trust deficit is every bit as corrosive as budget and trade deficits.

In other words... the hippies were right. Nice post!

 

[Padawanbater2]

How would you establish that boundary, what basis would you use to determine "within reason" ?

If your lifestyle deprives others of basic rights like food, water or healthcare, it is not within reason

 

[schuylaar]

If your lifestyle deprives others of basic rights like food, water or healthcare, it is not within reason

Bravo!

Salaries 350 times your company's highest earner..would be another.

 

[ttystikk]

That's actually NLXSK1's mOtto..join the wealthy JUST IN CASE YOU SHOULD BECOME ONE..

Asian, white, educated (finished college) and old.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-millionaire-odds/

Great link! Very educational...

 

[ttystikk]

In other words... the hippies were right. Nice post!

They were all along. We're now living in the world that ignored them.

 

[SneekyNinja]

Bravo!

Salaries 350 times your company's highest earner..would be another.

How does the salary paid by a Corporation affect you in any way whatsoever?

This thread is about greed, not all CEO's are greedy and their renumeration is really none of your business.

How they acquire their money is a different topic, but what they pay their executives is none of your concern unless youre a shareholder.

 

[Rob Roy]

If your lifestyle deprives others of basic rights like food, water or healthcare, it is not within reason

Did you mean access to food, water and healthcare or did you mean if person A has it, they are bound by some kind of duty to give it to person B ?

 

[Big_Lou]

Did you mean access to food, water and healthcare or did you mean if person A has it, they are bound by some kind of duty to give it to person B ?

Basic humanity and a philanthropic mindset?

Call me crazy, but I don't think you really get how this whole thing is supposed to work.....

 

[Rob Roy]

Basic humanity and a philanthropic mindset?

Call me crazy, but I don't think you really get how this whole thing is supposed to work.....

Okay, say you and I are both able bodied, but you are a lazy sort and while I work all summer on my garden, cut my firewood etc. you spend most of your time online talking about absurd things. Then winter comes and you're cold...who is responsible for your situation?

 

[UncleBuck]

Okay, say you and I are both able bodied, but you are a lazy sort and while I work all summer on my garden, cut my firewood etc. you spend most of your time online talking about absurd things. Then winter comes and you're cold...who is responsible for your situation?

the neighbor who has an operational fridge?

 

[Growgettah]

I know plenty of miserable "rich" people and happy "poor" people. The reverse is true as well.

"You are guaranteed the right to pursue happiness, not obtain it." If making more money than you can spend in a life time makes you happy then pursue that. If giving your family the ability to never have to work again makes you happy pursue that. If making a lot of money and giving it all away makes you happy pursue that. All within the rule of Law.

"You are guaranteed equal opportunity, not equal out come." Why do you think someone should be able to start life where I am finishing beyond the same equal opportunity I had at the beginning of the journey? If after generations of using opportunities and making sacrifices to better themselves "rich" people now live in a different manner than you do, why do you think anyone has the right to say they have too much and it needs to be redistributed? Equal opportunity or equal opportunity over generations has allowed that to happen. Equal opportunity and excepting personal responsibility for choices and actions. If you squander that opportunity because you didn't realize you had it, you can not blame anyone but yourself for the out come, most legal immigrants understand this why can't you?. Let me rephrase that, you can blame me but that is just the lack of the ability of introspection. I am not saying all the "rich" are "good" nor am I saying all the "rich" are "bad". Each must take personal responsibility for that determination and its consequences under the rule of Law. If you do not like the Law use equal opportunity to put yourself in a place to change it, no one said it would be easy or that you may not fail, just that the opportunity is there. See the story of Justice Sotomayor or former President Obama.

"You do not have to be a man (or woman) of the people to be a man (or woman) for the people" from the movie Gladiator, cheesy I know, but true none the less. What you call greed I call ambition. Its all based on perspective and perception anyway. You can not say that the lack of integrity of some shows a lack of integrity of all. You can say it, but that does not make it true. See below.

Great article, highly relevant to the thread topic;

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/02/why-the-maximize-shareholder-value-theory-is-bogus.html

My favorite quote in the article, by economist Steven Pearlstein;

It is our social capital that is now badly depleted. This erosion manifests in the weakened norms of behavior that once restrained the most selfish impulses of economic actors and provided an ethical basis for modern capitalism. A capitalism in which Wall Street bankers and traders think peddling dangerous loans or worthless securities to unsuspecting customers is just “part of the game,” a capitalism in which top executives believe it is economically necessary that they earn 350 times what their front-line workers do, a capitalism that thinks of employees as expendable inputs, a capitalism in which corporations perceive it as both their fiduciary duty to evade taxes and their constitutional right to use unlimited amounts of corporate funds to purchase control of the political system—that is a capitalism whose trust deficit is every bit as corrosive as budget and trade deficits.

 

[ttystikk]

I know plenty of miserable "rich" people and happy "poor" people. The reverse is true as well.

"You are guaranteed the right to pursue happiness, not obtain it." If making more money than you can spend in a life time makes you happy then pursue that. If giving your family the ability to never have to work again makes you happy pursue that. If making a lot of money and giving it all away makes you happy pursue that. All within the rule of Law.

"You are guaranteed equal opportunity, not equal out come." Why do you think someone should be able to start life where I am finishing beyond the same equal opportunity I had at the beginning of the journey? If after generations of using opportunities and making sacrifices to better themselves "rich" people now live in a different manner than you do, why do you think anyone has the right to say they have too much and it needs to be redistributed? Equal opportunity or equal opportunity over generations has allowed that to happen. Equal opportunity and excepting personal responsibility for choices and actions. If you squander that opportunity because you didn't realize you had it, you can not blame anyone but yourself for the out come, most legal immigrants understand this why can't you?. Let me rephrase that, you can blame me but that is just the lack of the ability of introspection. I am not saying all the "rich" are "good" nor am I saying all the "rich" are "bad". Each must take personal responsibility for that determination and its consequences under the rule of Law. If you do not like the Law use equal opportunity to put yourself in a place to change it, no one said it would be easy or that you may not fail, just that the opportunity is there. See the story of Justice Sotomayor or former President Obama.

"You do not have to be a man (or woman) of the people to be a man (or woman) for the people" from the movie Gladiator, cheesy I know, but true none the less. What you call greed I call ambition. Its all based on perspective and perception anyway. You can not say that the lack of integrity of some shows a lack of integrity of all. You can say it, but that does not make it true. See below.

Yet another stupid shitty post that accomplishes nothing but showcasing the failures of our public education system.

 

[SneekyNinja]

I think 2 g's a week is a decent target for people to strive for in their life.

If you get more then thats cool (bonus!), but that's more than enough to live a very happy life on.

But taking more than that at someone else's expense could be considered "greedy".

 

[Growgettah]

Yet another stupid shitty post that accomplishes nothing but showcasing the failures of our public education system.

Roflmao. You really ARE that "progressive" and do not want equal opportunity, you want equal out come. Your "moral high ground" is crumbling beneath you and the longer Trump and his cabinet stay in office the easier it will be to point out as "the people" get to participate in the freedom that equal opportunity, not the equal out come you want, gives.

 

[ttystikk]

Roflmao. You really ARE that "progressive" and do not want equal opportunity, you want equal out come. Your "moral high ground" is crumbling beneath you and the longer Trump and his cabinet stay in office the easier it will be to point out as "the people" get to participate in the freedom that equal opportunity, not the equal out come you want, gives.

Derp. More drivel reeking of talking points that say nothing.

In case you haven't noticed, we're onto your stupidity masquerading as discourse.

It doesn't even say anything.

 

[Rob Roy]

the neighbor who has an operational fridge?

Cold. Very cold.