The Party of Tolerance and Acceptance.

Milliardo Peacecraft

Well-Known Member
As soon as you can produce the evidence that proves Obama is to blame for it. D and R have both been taking us down that road for a long time.
I don't mean to say that he is, but he shares a huge portion of the blame as the president. The issue of private debt is never talked about, it's always "slashed federal deficit" and "inherited Bush's mess". Public debt dropped slightly in 2009 when bankruptcy meant something, under Obama, we've seen that trend reverse up an asymptotic curve. His handling of the private debt crisis was: look the other way, protect creditors, and allow insurance companies to level a tax on anyone not willing to buy their non-competitive product. And then bankruptcy law was changed as to not expunge credit card debt or student loans. As the one individual that can use a presidential veto, he failed to act to protect consumers and has to shoulder that responsibility.

Although he didn't write the legislation that did all that, he did sponsor the ACA, which is possibly the egregious among them. I'm an independent, both sides are two cheeks of the same ass. And it's a Citigroup banker's big fat ass that chose Obama's cabinet.

He said "unemployed", this word means a specific thing.
Yeah I understand that, but it's probably unemployment plus all marginal employment. Not a whole lot of people making $30/hr working full time anymore.
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
I don't mean to say that he is, but he shares a huge portion of the blame as the president. The issue of private debt is never talked about, it's always "slashed federal deficit" and "inherited Bush's mess". Public debt dropped slightly in 2009 when bankruptcy meant something, under Obama, we've seen that trend reverse up an asymptotic curve. His handling of the private debt crisis was: look the other way, protect creditors, and allow insurance companies to level a tax on anyone not willing to buy their non-competitive product. And then bankruptcy law was changed as to not expunge credit card debt or student loans. As the one individual that can use a presidential veto, he failed to act to protect consumers and has to shoulder that responsibility.

Although he didn't write the legislation that did all that, he did sponsor the ACA, which is possibly the egregious among them. I'm an independent, both sides are two cheeks of the same ass. And it's a Citigroup banker's big fat ass that chose Obama's cabinet.


Yeah I understand that, but it's probably unemployment plus all marginal employment. Not a whole lot of people making $30/hr working full time anymore.
That would give us a 60% net workforce.

Also known as one of the biggest labor force participation rates in the developed world.

His numbers are just plain...

 

Drowning-Man

Well-Known Member
All politicians and elite are lyers and thietfs. We need to put a common man into office or at least an intelectual.
 

b4ds33d

Well-Known Member
You having a bad day? It seems more reasonable to me to place credit and blame where they belong. Let Obama and Trump toot their own horn, we the people's job is to hold them accountable to doing what is right for the entire public. We can't give up on reasoning and sifting through the bullshit despite the polarized media.
my day is fine, thanks for your concern, much appreciated! i just know the lefty think tank on this site and their tactics.
 

choomer

Well-Known Member
How can you talk the issues without assigning blame to the individuals that created the problem? Knowing the actors helps gain a better understanding. My point isn't to make Obama look perfect, but not to falsely demonize him either.
As soon as you can produce the evidence that proves Obama is to blame for it. D and R have both been taking us down that road for a long time.
You posted these replies back-to-back.
One post asking for individual actions and one post admitting, in your opinion, that "D and R have both been taking us down that road for a long time." (which I thought is effectively what I said).
If you want to demonize a president, you should demonize all presidents.

But people are already turning cartwheels over what Dumph MIGHT do.

Let's look at what Obummer HAS done (and I got lucky w/ an apropos "fake news" story from WaPo today):

With his presidency coming to a close, here’s a look at 10 of Obama’s biggest whoppers, listed in chronological order. All of these earned Four Pinocchios, of course, but they also landed on our annual list of the biggest Pinocchios of the year.

To keep it simple, we have shortened the quotes in the headlines. To read the full column, click on the link embedded in the quote.


“More young black men languish in prison than attend colleges and universities across America”

This was a 2007 campaign claim by Obama, then a senator, that was wildly off the mark. In reality, there are five times more black men enrolled in colleges and universities than young black men in federal and state prisons — and two and half times the total number incarcerated (including local jails). Even if you expanded the age group to include African American males up to 30 or 35, the college attendees would still outnumber the prisoners.

“We signed into law the biggest middle-class tax cut in history”

This 2011 claim was not based on a dollar figure but on dubious math — that supposedly 95 percent of working families received some kind of tax cut under the Making Work Pay provision in Obama’s stimulus bill. John F. Kennedy actually wins the prize for biggest tax cut, at least in the last half-century. By the same measure, the income tax provisions of George W. Bush tax cuts were more than twice as large as Obama’s tax cut over the same three-year time span. (While a large portion of Bush’s tax cut went to the wealthy, it also benefited the working poor.)

“90 percent of the budget deficit is due to George W. Bush’s policies”

During the 2012 campaign, Obama repeatedly reminded voters that he became president during a grim economic crisis. But he went too far when he claimed that only 10 percent of the federal deficit was due to his own policies. About half of the deficit stemmed from the recession and forecasting errors, but a large chunk (44 percent in 2011) were the result of Obama’s actions. At another point, Obama also falsely suggested that the Bush tax cuts led to the Great Recession.

“If you like your health-care plan, you can keep it”

This memorable promise by Obama backfired on him in 2013 when the Affordable Care Act went into effect and at least 2 million Americans started receiving cancellation notices. As we explained, part of the reason for so many cancellations is because of an unusually early (March 23, 2010) cutoff date for grandfathering plans — and because of tight regulations written by the administration. So the uproar could be pinned directly on the administration’s own actions.

“The Capitol Hill janitors just got a pay cut”

President Obama offered an evocative image at a 2013 news conference when the sequester spending cuts struck the federal budget — janitors sweeping the empty halls of the Capitol, laboring for less pay. But it turned out that he was completely wrong. Janitorial staff did not face a pay cut — and Capitol Hill administrative officials even issued a statement saying the president’s remarks were “not true.” Then the White House tried to argue that janitors at least faced a loss of overtime. That was not correct either. The episode was emblematic of the administration’s overheated rhetoric during the sequester debate.

“The day after Benghazi happened, I acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism”

Obama did refer to an “act of terror” in the immediate aftermath of the 2012 Benghazi attacks, but in vague terms, wrapped in a patriotic fervor. He never affirmatively stated that the American ambassador died because of an “act of terror.” Then, over a period of two weeks, given three opportunities in interviews to affirmatively agree that the Benghazi attack was a terrorist attack, the president obfuscated or ducked the question. So this was a case of taking revisionist history too far for political reasons.

“I didn’t call the Islamic State a ‘JV’ team”

In 2014, Obama repeated a claim, crafted by the White House communications team, that he was not “specifically” referring to the Islamic State terror group when he dismissed the militants who had taken over Fallujah as a “JV squad.” But The Fact Checker obtained the previously unreleased transcript of the president’s interview with the New Yorker, and it’s clear that’s who the president was referencing.

“Republicans have filibustered 500 pieces of legislation”

Obama, a former senator, got quite a few things wrong in this 2014 claim. He spoke of legislation that would help the middle class, but he was counting cloture votes that mostly involved judicial and executive branch nominations. Moreover, he counted all the way back to 2007, meaning he even included votes in which he, as senator, voted against ending debate — the very thing he decried in his remarks. At best, he could claim the Republicans had blocked about 50 bills, meaning he was off by a factor of 10.

“The Keystone pipeline is for oil that bypasses the United States”

Long before Obama killed the Keystone pipeline project in 2015, he made a number of dubious claims about it, including that the pipeline would have no benefit for American producers at all. But the crude oil would have traveled to the Gulf Coast, where it would be refined into products such as motor gasoline and diesel fuel; the State Department said odds were low that all would be exported. Also, about 12 percent of the pipeline’s capacity had been set aside for crude from North Dakota and Montana.

“We have fired a whole bunch of people who are in charge of these [VA] facilities”

Obama in 2016 misled the public about the number of people held accountable for the 2014 scandal over manipulated wait-time data at the Department of Veterans Affairs, which contributed to patient deaths. Congress responded by passing a law that sped up disciplinary actions for senior executive service employees. But when Obama made his statement in September, only one senior executive had been removed for a case involving wait time (though the actual firing was for an ethics violation).
You are more than invited to do the same for Shrub and Clit'n and Big Bushy, and Raygun, and Carter and Nixon, etc., but I don't think in 8 years in office Obummer is not as complicit as the others and the math makes him look more so.

Take a look at usdebtclock.org and watch the ~$10k/sec. interest accrual and think about how Federal Reserve policy creates all this "new money" without creating the associated "new worth" to back it helping to depreciate the buying power of the dollar more than 90% since the founding of the federal reserve.

While no president has created the debt all by themselves, none are free of responsibility.
 

PCXV

Well-Known Member
You posted these replies back-to-back.
One post asking for individual actions and one post admitting, in your opinion, that "D and R have both been taking us down that road for a long time." (which I thought is effectively what I said).
If you want to demonize a president, you should demonize all presidents.

But people are already turning cartwheels over what Dumph MIGHT do.

Let's look at what Obummer HAS done (and I got lucky w/ an apropos "fake news" story from WaPo today):

With his presidency coming to a close, here’s a look at 10 of Obama’s biggest whoppers, listed in chronological order. All of these earned Four Pinocchios, of course, but they also landed on our annual list of the biggest Pinocchios of the year.

To keep it simple, we have shortened the quotes in the headlines. To read the full column, click on the link embedded in the quote.


“More young black men languish in prison than attend colleges and universities across America”

This was a 2007 campaign claim by Obama, then a senator, that was wildly off the mark. In reality, there are five times more black men enrolled in colleges and universities than young black men in federal and state prisons — and two and half times the total number incarcerated (including local jails). Even if you expanded the age group to include African American males up to 30 or 35, the college attendees would still outnumber the prisoners.

“We signed into law the biggest middle-class tax cut in history”

This 2011 claim was not based on a dollar figure but on dubious math — that supposedly 95 percent of working families received some kind of tax cut under the Making Work Pay provision in Obama’s stimulus bill. John F. Kennedy actually wins the prize for biggest tax cut, at least in the last half-century. By the same measure, the income tax provisions of George W. Bush tax cuts were more than twice as large as Obama’s tax cut over the same three-year time span. (While a large portion of Bush’s tax cut went to the wealthy, it also benefited the working poor.)

“90 percent of the budget deficit is due to George W. Bush’s policies”

During the 2012 campaign, Obama repeatedly reminded voters that he became president during a grim economic crisis. But he went too far when he claimed that only 10 percent of the federal deficit was due to his own policies. About half of the deficit stemmed from the recession and forecasting errors, but a large chunk (44 percent in 2011) were the result of Obama’s actions. At another point, Obama also falsely suggested that the Bush tax cuts led to the Great Recession.

“If you like your health-care plan, you can keep it”

This memorable promise by Obama backfired on him in 2013 when the Affordable Care Act went into effect and at least 2 million Americans started receiving cancellation notices. As we explained, part of the reason for so many cancellations is because of an unusually early (March 23, 2010) cutoff date for grandfathering plans — and because of tight regulations written by the administration. So the uproar could be pinned directly on the administration’s own actions.

“The Capitol Hill janitors just got a pay cut”

President Obama offered an evocative image at a 2013 news conference when the sequester spending cuts struck the federal budget — janitors sweeping the empty halls of the Capitol, laboring for less pay. But it turned out that he was completely wrong. Janitorial staff did not face a pay cut — and Capitol Hill administrative officials even issued a statement saying the president’s remarks were “not true.” Then the White House tried to argue that janitors at least faced a loss of overtime. That was not correct either. The episode was emblematic of the administration’s overheated rhetoric during the sequester debate.

“The day after Benghazi happened, I acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism”

Obama did refer to an “act of terror” in the immediate aftermath of the 2012 Benghazi attacks, but in vague terms, wrapped in a patriotic fervor. He never affirmatively stated that the American ambassador died because of an “act of terror.” Then, over a period of two weeks, given three opportunities in interviews to affirmatively agree that the Benghazi attack was a terrorist attack, the president obfuscated or ducked the question. So this was a case of taking revisionist history too far for political reasons.

“I didn’t call the Islamic State a ‘JV’ team”

In 2014, Obama repeated a claim, crafted by the White House communications team, that he was not “specifically” referring to the Islamic State terror group when he dismissed the militants who had taken over Fallujah as a “JV squad.” But The Fact Checker obtained the previously unreleased transcript of the president’s interview with the New Yorker, and it’s clear that’s who the president was referencing.

“Republicans have filibustered 500 pieces of legislation”

Obama, a former senator, got quite a few things wrong in this 2014 claim. He spoke of legislation that would help the middle class, but he was counting cloture votes that mostly involved judicial and executive branch nominations. Moreover, he counted all the way back to 2007, meaning he even included votes in which he, as senator, voted against ending debate — the very thing he decried in his remarks. At best, he could claim the Republicans had blocked about 50 bills, meaning he was off by a factor of 10.

“The Keystone pipeline is for oil that bypasses the United States”

Long before Obama killed the Keystone pipeline project in 2015, he made a number of dubious claims about it, including that the pipeline would have no benefit for American producers at all. But the crude oil would have traveled to the Gulf Coast, where it would be refined into products such as motor gasoline and diesel fuel; the State Department said odds were low that all would be exported. Also, about 12 percent of the pipeline’s capacity had been set aside for crude from North Dakota and Montana.

“We have fired a whole bunch of people who are in charge of these [VA] facilities”

Obama in 2016 misled the public about the number of people held accountable for the 2014 scandal over manipulated wait-time data at the Department of Veterans Affairs, which contributed to patient deaths. Congress responded by passing a law that sped up disciplinary actions for senior executive service employees. But when Obama made his statement in September, only one senior executive had been removed for a case involving wait time (though the actual firing was for an ethics violation).
You are more than invited to do the same for Shrub and Clit'n and Big Bushy, and Raygun, and Carter and Nixon, etc., but I don't think in 8 years in office Obummer is not as complicit as the others and the math makes him look more so.

Take a look at usdebtclock.org and watch the ~$10k/sec. interest accrual and think about how Federal Reserve policy creates all this "new money" without creating the associated "new worth" to back it helping to depreciate the buying power of the dollar more than 90% since the founding of the federal reserve.

While no president has created the debt all by themselves, none are free of responsibility.
All I mean is not demonizing individuals beyond appropriate blame. Criticism and fact checking are not the problem. When people place all blame on the opposition it stymies progress towards finding a solution. Extreme partisanship isn't helping us.
 
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