Mixing nutes in high-pH tap water

chasingwaterfalls

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
Hi all,

If I have tap water with a high pH (~9), will it be an issue to mix nutrients without lowering the pH a little bit first? In general, does nute lockout occur quickly, or will adjusting pH after mixing prevent it?

From what I've gathered, most people recommend adjusting pH after adding nutes, but I haven't been able to find an answer when the starting water has a high pH.

Using one digital pH meter and liquid pH tester for comparison. pH around 9, and I have a TDS meter that reads 85 ppm (apologies, I don't know the actual EC or conversion rate).

First post, and happy to have finally joined RIU! Got a half dozen soil grows under my belt, this is my first attempt at hydro.
 
Strocat

Strocat

Well-Known Member
only measure after mixing. same principal as if you're water in soil.

say you fill a watering can with 1 gallon of water. then add some tiger bloom and beastie bloomz... you check that nutrient soultion ph and adjust accordingly.

get some ph up and down and you're good to go. its easy to do
 
chasingwaterfalls

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
This makes sense. I've only just started feeding and am at 1/4 strength; generally, mixing 1/4 nutes to my tap water with pH 9 leads to a pH of 7.5 after 24 hours. Then, I'd adjust pH.

My concern is that the nutes might precipitate out since the starting pH is so high. Not looking to adjust and "set" the pH for feeding, just wondering if the high pH will cause problems before I adjust final pH.

Thanks for the quick reply!
 
theslipperbandit

theslipperbandit

Well-Known Member
Base nutes will lower ur ph(my tap water is ph 7 n MY Base nutes drops it to about 4.2 per 5 mill.
si (one drop is like +.2ph)will drive it up as will rizotontic is handy for getting it down aswell so I never really use ph up or down just things like seaweed feeds (mine specifically is +.7ph per 5ml per litre) so get to know ur nutes take notes and eventually shit gets so fluid u could free pour the stuff lol
 
chasingwaterfalls

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
Thanks, guys, appreciate all the tips.

I'm not worried about the actual process of adjusting the pH (I'm just using liquid pH up and pH down), just the fact that my starting pH is high.

Why I'm concerned is that I know that there can be some nutes that fall out of solution if the pH is too extreme.
 
theslipperbandit

theslipperbandit

Well-Known Member
Once ur end result after nutes (I'm assuming ur in soil) is 6.5ph don't worry about it n 6.4 _6.6 is fine even from week 5 of flowering 6.7-6.8 is good aswell
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
chasingwaterfalls said:
Thanks, guys, appreciate all the tips.

I'm not worried about the actual process of adjusting the pH (I'm just using liquid pH up and pH down), just the fact that my starting pH is high.

Why I'm concerned is that I know that there can be some nutes that fall out of solution if the pH is too extreme.
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That is a bit of concern. I'm surprised that your ppm is so low yet the pH is so high. High pH is usually accompanied with high ppm. Are you sure that your ppm isn't a 10X scale like my old Hanna? Or that the calibration isn't way off?

I would knock the pH down to around 7 - 8 before adding nutes to be safe. Try filling a gallon jug then use measured amounts of pH down to see how much you need to get it to 7. Then wait at least an hour or better yet overnight and test it again. If it stays where you left it then you know how much pH down to use and can use just a bit less per gallon to knock it down, then add nutes and test to do final adjustment before watering. If your test gallon goes back up a bunch then you have more carbonates in the water than what your ppm pen is telling you and it will keep going up until the carbonates have been neutralized.

chasingwaterfalls said:
Does that change if I'm doing hydro? First time, in a DWC
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The same thing with hydro as above but I've done about 50 DWC grows and always used RO water to remove any concerns about water being a problem. I use pH Perfect nutes so never check pH in DWC or a soilless grow like I'm finishing up now. I use RO water in my potted plant grows too.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS . I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books looks great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as many are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

:peace:
 
chasingwaterfalls

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
OldMedUser said:
That is a bit of concern. I'm surprised that your ppm is so low yet the pH is so high. High pH is usually accompanied with high ppm. Are you sure that your ppm isn't a 10X scale like my old Hanna? Or that the calibration isn't way off?

I would knock the pH down to around 7 - 8 before adding nutes to be safe. Try filling a gallon jug then use measured amounts of pH down to see how much you need to get it to 7. Then wait at least an hour or better yet overnight and test it again. If it stays where you left it then you know how much pH down to use and can use just a bit less per gallon to knock it down, then add nutes and test to do final adjustment before watering. If your test gallon goes back up a bunch then you have more carbonates in the water than what your ppm pen is telling you and it will keep going up until the carbonates have been neutralized.



The same thing with hydro as above but I've done about 50 DWC grows and always used RO water to remove any concerns about water being a problem. I use pH Perfect nutes so never check pH in DWC or a soilless grow like I'm finishing up now. I use RO water in my potted plant grows too.
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I'll look into my TDS meter, and I was surprised, too about the pH and ppm (in the last state i was in where i was growing, i had the typical tap water with high ppm and decent ph)

This is very helpful. I was most wondering if itd be worth the effort to adjust ph beforehand or if id be wasting my time or adding acid unnecessarily, and this answers that
 
Strocat

Strocat

Well-Known Member
Tap water here the second it comes outa the tap is right at 7.4-7.6 . Im in a small town and the water treatment place only uses normal chlorine and NOT chloramine so... I fill my watering can to 1 gallon mark and i stick in an airstone coming off a 10$ tetra walmart air pump. I bubble that water overnight-72 hours. Then within 5 mins i immediately add nutes.. check ph.. add a little up to hit 6.5 and water plant right away. My plants seem to do the best when i do it that way. I have a qimius ph meter i love but i do not have a tds meter.. i would like to see the ppms around here in tap just outa curiosity
 
Clutchcargo_1

Clutchcargo_1

Active Member
9 pH is fairly normal from city water. It prevents corrosion from the upstream pipes. If Flint, MI figured that out a bit earlier, they wouldn't be in the state that their in.
Out of my RO, I get a pH of 8.8 but there's nothing to buffer it at that level so it immediately drops to 4.9 after I add nutes.
 
R

rollyouron

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
That is a bit of concern. I'm surprised that your ppm is so low yet the pH is so high. High pH is usually accompanied with high ppm. Are you sure that your ppm isn't a 10X scale like my old Hanna? Or that the calibration isn't way off?

I would knock the pH down to around 7 - 8 before adding nutes to be safe. Try filling a gallon jug then use measured amounts of pH down to see how much you need to get it to 7. Then wait at least an hour or better yet overnight and test it again. If it stays where you left it then you know how much pH down to use and can use just a bit less per gallon to knock it down, then add nutes and test to do final adjustment before watering. If your test gallon goes back up a bunch then you have more carbonates in the water than what your ppm pen is telling you and it will keep going up until the carbonates have been neutralized.
Click to expand...
The PPM of my water 30 and PH is like 9.1 Any nutes I mix always bring it 5.1. I have to use ph up to get it back up. Weird how water acts different in other towns and cities.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Clutchcargo_1 said:
9 pH is fairly normal from city water. It prevents corrosion from the upstream pipes. If Flint, MI figured that out a bit earlier, they wouldn't be in the state that their in.
Out of my RO, I get a pH of 8.8 but there's nothing to buffer it at that level so it immediately drops to 4.9 after I add nutes.
Click to expand...
It's the minerals/salts in water that determine it's pH so RO or distilled water has no pH of it's own and will swing quite a ways from a drop or two of pH up or down. Don't bother checking the pH of the water until you've added something to it. Never leave your pH pen in pure water as it will leach the salts out of the glass probe and wreck it.

:peace:
 
chasingwaterfalls

chasingwaterfalls

Active Member
rollyouron said:
The PPM of my water 30 and PH is like 9.1 Any nutes I mix always bring it 5.1. I have to use ph up to get it back up. Weird how water acts different in other towns and cities.
Click to expand...
I guess I am still only using 1/4 strength, but even after lowering my tap to 7 first, my nutes only brought it down to just under 6.

Good to know, though, that you mix straight into your tap water
 
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