DonaldJTrump
Active Member
So i didnt know where to post this.
What are your findings?
What are your findings?
Aero Buds VS hydro buds (dwc) VS Soil buds
- Thread starter DonaldJTrump
- Start date
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
Don't know what "aero buds" are but it literally doesn't matter. Do what works for you. I know both sides of the hydro vs soil holy war hate me for saying it, but neither one is better or worse than the other.
There are benefits to organic agriculture that are real but they are not in the product itself, they are environmental. The produce itself is identical. Sorry to @vostok and the true believers out there, but I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
The plants themselves are physiologically identical regardless of growing method, assuming optimal conditions are provided in all cases. There is a shitbarge full of pseudoscience about organic farming out there, including many "new" scientific studies, but the body of scientific results taken as a whole, after extensive worldwide peer review, indicate that the produce itself, the plants, don't differ significantly.
There are benefits to organic agriculture that are real but they are not in the product itself, they are environmental. The produce itself is identical. Sorry to @vostok and the true believers out there, but I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
The plants themselves are physiologically identical regardless of growing method, assuming optimal conditions are provided in all cases. There is a shitbarge full of pseudoscience about organic farming out there, including many "new" scientific studies, but the body of scientific results taken as a whole, after extensive worldwide peer review, indicate that the produce itself, the plants, don't differ significantly.
Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
I have grown weed all three ways and can say without question that buds grown naturally in organic soil have the best taste. However you can't really get yields in dirt like you can doing hydro. When I say natural organic soil that means water only; no extra nutes added. Michael is correct; the plants could care less where their food comes from but I would add that synthetic nutrients can affect the flavor of the end product. Dissolved salts contained in synth nutes are kinda like the peanut butter you put on a pill to give your dog; they are a delivery system. Plants uptake these salts and over time some of it is deposited into the flesh of the plants..there's no flushing it out. Plants grown either way will be visually indentical and just as potent; it's only in the flavor can you tell the difference.
If all you've smoked is street bud your whole life you won't notice much difference at all because most commercial bud is typically grown with nutes for max yields. I never realized until I tasted my own bud grown only with water, compost, and soil amendments that organic weed represents the full genetic flavor profile of your selected strain. I find that organic bud doesn't need several weeks of curing to taste as it should unlike bud grown in a hydro medium.
If all you've smoked is street bud your whole life you won't notice much difference at all because most commercial bud is typically grown with nutes for max yields. I never realized until I tasted my own bud grown only with water, compost, and soil amendments that organic weed represents the full genetic flavor profile of your selected strain. I find that organic bud doesn't need several weeks of curing to taste as it should unlike bud grown in a hydro medium.
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
I like you Richard, I don't really agree with a lot of that post, but you, like Vostok, are a pretty good dude. Everyone has preferences. I have run some water-only organics (but no real side by side comparisons from the same cuts or anything rigorous) but I don't detect the difference. I have a really sensitive palate and nose compared to just about everyone I know, except my Mother who has a nose like a bloodhound and terrible taste in food, but I digress...
My buddy is an organics guy and he grows great weed, but he thought I was doing his organic method for sure when he tried my Medical Glue, which was a personal best grow for me. It was using my own blend of powdered nutes in a coco based dtw set up. Would it taste even that much "better" grown in a no till organic soil? Maybe. But it is so damn good I would challenge anyone to tell the difference. I also think one can cure faster by trimming and drying and starting the cure differently. I am in a dry climate, ymmv:
1 Dry slower, maybe
2 Trim less at first, just yank fan leaves more or less, and hang big untrimmed sticks for like four to five days,
3 chuck the nugs off the stems and jar it with a bit more moisture remaining than most guides say, leave it overnight,
4 lay it out on a screen again for a few hours to a day longer and trim it up
5. and re-jar it and "start" the cure.
Playing with this method and getting a sense for what "feels right" I have been getting really good results in ten days flat from chop. I also forgot to mention, I let the plants go thirsty for a day or two before chop, like "dry harvest" for tomatoes. It isn't ground breaking, perhaps but it is under two weeks and it kicks the shit out of WA dispensary weed, in terms of flavor certainly. WA rec dispensaries suck ass, though, lol.
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DonaldJTrump
Active Member
I'll chime in as OP. guy up top was right. its not really aero but i use misters LOL I am pro hydro..
1) I have seen better quality w hydro (aero / w.e.). Meaning bigger flowers and same or better smells.
2) hydro can be organic
3) i would never suggest growing a plant without nutrients
4) hate lugging water around. Hate soil drip irrigation. Grow space with drains in the floor are VERY hard to find. Or expensive. I.e. basement in house, needed garage etc.
5) hydro allows you to easily fully automate your system using cheap relays and wifi outlets. Simply control your resivor and nutrients from your cell phone.... Never lug a jug again. Never twist a valve again. Hell i dont even touch my plants except to chop or when i reclone for flower.. In hydro i dont even need to use a scrog net the stems get so fking thick...
6) hydro allows my plants to uptake the most water / nutes. a 50 gallon resivor will be at 1/4 capacity in just a few days with 16 very small plants. Incredible stuff.
7) not as many bug and pest issues, if any. With hydro. No medium = no place to live.
I use syntetic pots and synthetic foam inserts. 0 chance of bugs or algae
just my 2 cents in the research party.
That being said. I am strongly considering doing a really fly soil grow. It would be done under a 1k light. 5 gallon pots. 16 plants. sitting on a plastic flood table that would drain into a nearby drain via pump. soil would be covered with sand to prevent all pests. Would be done just 1 time to avoid wasting nutrients and water. Would cost me like 25 bucks to setup minus light.
1) I have seen better quality w hydro (aero / w.e.). Meaning bigger flowers and same or better smells.
2) hydro can be organic
3) i would never suggest growing a plant without nutrients
4) hate lugging water around. Hate soil drip irrigation. Grow space with drains in the floor are VERY hard to find. Or expensive. I.e. basement in house, needed garage etc.
5) hydro allows you to easily fully automate your system using cheap relays and wifi outlets. Simply control your resivor and nutrients from your cell phone.... Never lug a jug again. Never twist a valve again. Hell i dont even touch my plants except to chop or when i reclone for flower.. In hydro i dont even need to use a scrog net the stems get so fking thick...
6) hydro allows my plants to uptake the most water / nutes. a 50 gallon resivor will be at 1/4 capacity in just a few days with 16 very small plants. Incredible stuff.
7) not as many bug and pest issues, if any. With hydro. No medium = no place to live.
I use syntetic pots and synthetic foam inserts. 0 chance of bugs or algaejust my 2 cents in the research party.
That being said. I am strongly considering doing a really fly soil grow. It would be done under a 1k light. 5 gallon pots. 16 plants. sitting on a plastic flood table that would drain into a nearby drain via pump. soil would be covered with sand to prevent all pests. Would be done just 1 time to avoid wasting nutrients and water. Would cost me like 25 bucks to setup minus light.
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Hydro can have bigger yields (I get damn close with my organic - I try to, so not an issue).
Soil, even synthetic runs, taste better then hydro! No? Then why does everyone like their tomatoes out of their gardens better?
You should be matching the yields from Ebb, DWC or any form of hydro for that matter. Your not dialed in yet.I'll chime in as OP. guy up top was right. its not really aero but i use misters LOL I am pro hydro..
1) I have seen better quality w hydro (aero / w.e.). Meaning bigger flowers and same or better smells.
2) hydro can be organic
3) i would never suggest growing a plant without nutrients
4) hate lugging water around. Hate soil drip irrigation. Grow space with drains in the floor are VERY hard to find. Or expensive. I.e. basement in house, needed garage etc.
5) hydro allows you to easily fully automate your system using cheap relays and wifi outlets. Simply control your resivor and nutrients from your cell phone.... Never lug a jug again. Never twist a valve again. Hell i dont even touch my plants except to chop or when i reclone for flower.. In hydro i dont even need to use a scrog net the stems get so fking thick...
6) hydro allows my plants to uptake the most water / nutes. a 50 gallon resivor will be at 1/4 capacity in just a few days with 16 very small plants. Incredible stuff.
7) not as many bug and pest issues, if any. With hydro. No medium = no place to live.
just my 2 cents in the research party.
That being said. I am strongly considering doing a really fly soil grow. It would be done under a 1k light. 5 gallon pots. 16 plants. sitting on a plastic flood table that would drain into a nearby drain via pump. soil would be covered with sand to prevent all pests. Would be done just 1 time to avoid wasting nutrients and water. Would cost me like 25 bucks to setup minus light.
Um, why ask the question if you have the answers already? OooHH, you want to qualify your desire to do that soil run....GO FOR IT! Find out for yourself! Just don't judge one single try as the best result - DIAL IT IN!
Oh, and btw - "7) not as many bug and pest issues, if any. With hydro. No medium = no place to live." Not exactly right on that one! You have a media. It has not been exposed to the bug,,,yet!
It's never and if - It's a when!
DonaldJTrump
Active Member
im so confused. i am matching those yields? My colas are going to be nearly 2 ounces on this batch from just 1.5ft tall plants
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
I don't know man, I just pulled 5 oz off a plant in a 3-gallon pot of coco-perlite stuff, I am sure soil could potentially yield like that but I think it would take more time and probably significantly more media.
As for @Dr. Who - who I respect a lot as a badass and knowledgable grower; I disagree with you on this somewhat. The reason we prefer tomatoes from our own garden cannot be provably linked to organic agriculture, or even soil growing. There is also surely a bit of psychological influence in there, a touch of grower's pride? Maybe everyone else is less proud of their produce than I am, but I doubt that, laughingly.
Commercial food distribution practices are a big part of why supermarket tomatoes suck so much by comparison. My homegrown hydro tomatoes and chilis taste amazing because they are cared for with artisanal attention to detail, the tomatoes aren't picked before natural ripening, and because they aren't stored, shipped then stored again and finally sold before use. They often get eaten while they are still warm from the lights or sun. I did Coco-based hydro outdoors this summer, grew a grip of habaneros and herbs and tomatoes that way. They are as good as anything grown in soil. Maybe your soil recipe or any best in class organic would be even better, but the scientific evidence for that assertion simply does not exist, as far as I am aware. Every time I have read a study or an article about a study that says organic produce is more nutritious and/or more delicious it eventually turns out that the nitty gritty details indicate no measurably significant difference than other growing methods. There is one exception I am aware of; a new study from The EU showing omega 3 increases in organic dairy and poultry, if I remember correctly. I think it was 2016, so we will have to see if the results are duplicated by other research in the next few years to have any certainty.
I don't necessarily disbelieve you, Doc, I just don't think it is provable yet.
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Pride? I'll give you that, yet soil gets better flavors then hydro and organic even more. I'll say it's beyond an opinion as there are studies that specifically show higher terp levels and better across the board expression of terps with organics. It's shown in testing by gas chro. That should stand for increased smell and taste...And yet, I can increase terps with any form of S. Mg sulfate will have a more berry tone and K sulfate a more lemon or citrus.....Have they tested that factor in any variety?
I still feel organic soils will give more in all ways....I sure got far more complements for my organic then my synthetic runs.... It was the law of demand. Give them what they want....Looking at ways to reopen the shops. I can no longer be listed on ownership papers or applications for the lic. The new laws are slated to have the first real legal shops opening in late 2018....
Still, I'll respect your opinion.....I don't think it's really worth arguing.
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Richard Drysift
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying you cannot get very high quality cannabis doing hydro and I've grown some monster bud doing dwc. I still have sn aero rail ala stinkbuds system but don't use it anymore. I'll be honest I always used cheapass nutes and probably gave too much for most at the time. There is also a huge difference between weed grown in natural soil and weed grown in dirt using nutes; nutrients kill the microbial life that feeds plants thereby rendering the soil as a hydro medium.
I've heard of organic hydro but its not the same thing as natural soil growing either because you are still force feeding your plants just as in all hydro systems. Nobody feeds the trees in the forest yet they grow tall and healthy; they thrive on decaying matter and fungal life. In natural soil grows the plants take what they need as it is needed as long as it's available. That also means it takes a longass time for a mix to become as supernaturally active as the forest floor. Dumping a bag of soil in a pot and simply watering it will only provide nutrition for a short time; soil needs to be amended and recycled a few times in order for what is added to it to become available to root systems. That takes time, way longer than most growers have patience for which is of course why they invented nutes but the payoff is super clean bud that tastes as nature intended. I didn't believe it myself until I started doing this. It took about a year before I began to get comparable results as I did doing hydro but the taste and quality of my bud is far superior today.
Its not as much about soil recipe as it is about microbial activity. Inputs are inputs even in hydro. Provide NPK and macros and your plants will thrive no matter how you grow them but getting exceptional flavor in my exp from hydro means curing for weeks. Now I can cut it and dry it and tastes great as it is. No more trips to the hydro store; almost zero dollars spent on my grow besides power these daze. A worm bin provides compost to feed my plants in exchange for kitchen scraps that wouldve been thrown in the trash. Compost is really the secret to it all; everything else is just an input.
As somebody said it's about finding what works for you; there's pros & cons to every method.
I've heard of organic hydro but its not the same thing as natural soil growing either because you are still force feeding your plants just as in all hydro systems. Nobody feeds the trees in the forest yet they grow tall and healthy; they thrive on decaying matter and fungal life. In natural soil grows the plants take what they need as it is needed as long as it's available. That also means it takes a longass time for a mix to become as supernaturally active as the forest floor. Dumping a bag of soil in a pot and simply watering it will only provide nutrition for a short time; soil needs to be amended and recycled a few times in order for what is added to it to become available to root systems. That takes time, way longer than most growers have patience for which is of course why they invented nutes but the payoff is super clean bud that tastes as nature intended. I didn't believe it myself until I started doing this. It took about a year before I began to get comparable results as I did doing hydro but the taste and quality of my bud is far superior today.
Its not as much about soil recipe as it is about microbial activity. Inputs are inputs even in hydro. Provide NPK and macros and your plants will thrive no matter how you grow them but getting exceptional flavor in my exp from hydro means curing for weeks. Now I can cut it and dry it and tastes great as it is. No more trips to the hydro store; almost zero dollars spent on my grow besides power these daze. A worm bin provides compost to feed my plants in exchange for kitchen scraps that wouldve been thrown in the trash. Compost is really the secret to it all; everything else is just an input.
As somebody said it's about finding what works for you; there's pros & cons to every method.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Ah but, synthetics don't really kill off the beasties ! Slap them awful damn hard! If you use an AACT at every other feeding in synthetics. You better have reduced the nutrient concentration by at least 50% to start! That's NOT a fert tea either! Basic bio tea's
The idea that bio's don't help synthetic grows has been debunked a while back. Shit Rich, look at all the bio's/pre-made/powdered teas available for synthetics today!
But your right too! The beasties make for a more broader spectrum of terps. Increasing one's we don't normally see as high with synthetic feeds....
Just saying Rich, jus say'in
DonaldJTrump
Active Member
I really want to see a few plants done outdoors in sealed greenhouse w/two low power evap coolers (made cheap from box fans) in plastic 55 gal drums buried 2/3 way in ground. ground sealed off with plastic. res would be housed inside cooled greenhouse to help keep temps under or around 70. veg would end at 3ft.
imagine the size. and the water you would save. not to mention all contaminates are not on plant.
Power would either be supplied to tanks via on site electric, off grid source, battery bank, generator, or hybrid setup.
imagine the size. and the water you would save. not to mention all contaminates are not on plant.
Power would either be supplied to tanks via on site electric, off grid source, battery bank, generator, or hybrid setup.
vostok
Well-Known Member
if this is your first grow
make ur first grow a soil grow
this first grow is to get a grounding on what is expected from both parties for the next 90? days
and the err ..discipline you must train for in tending the plants
this is what puts many potential gardeners of their first even 32nd grow
to my blog: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/12-week-grow-sceneario-by-jorge-cervantas.30164/
good luck
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
I wish you the best, man, I hope it goes smoothly! I respect your opinion too, man. You brought up some stuff I am going to look further into, lab results specifically. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it is always a good read.
rickyrozayyy
Well-Known Member
Coco!!!!
The_Enthusiast
Active Member
As far as I know, the plants cant eat "organically" - they eat inorganic elements.
So in soil you have microorganisms and bacteria and a whole ecosystem so your "organic nutrients" can be broken in inorganic form so a plant can absorb it.
The thing soil vs hydro is that most hydro solutions aren't supplemented with all needed elements.
But if you grow hydro and give them all nutrients (13+ elements in good ratio) the plant will grow faster, bigger and be better in all the right ways.
But if the debate is amateur soil vs amateur hydro - go soil - its a no brainier. Hydro is complicated, end expensive in time, knowledge and money.
It took me years to understand (sort of) all the elements that are needed for hydro grow to thrive.
(btw aero is just another form of hydro - best one but even more complicated and prone to failure)
So in soil you have microorganisms and bacteria and a whole ecosystem so your "organic nutrients" can be broken in inorganic form so a plant can absorb it.
The thing soil vs hydro is that most hydro solutions aren't supplemented with all needed elements.
But if you grow hydro and give them all nutrients (13+ elements in good ratio) the plant will grow faster, bigger and be better in all the right ways.
But if the debate is amateur soil vs amateur hydro - go soil - its a no brainier. Hydro is complicated, end expensive in time, knowledge and money.
It took me years to understand (sort of) all the elements that are needed for hydro grow to thrive.
(btw aero is just another form of hydro - best one but even more complicated and prone to failure)
DonaldJTrump
Active Member
im running maxibloom w sonicbloom? hows that??