Light Quantity vs Light Quality Evidence ... Just for 4 u gg lol!

[ttystikk]

this is beginning to sound like a group of lawyers arguing.you can find "scientific studies" to prove any point you want to make.in the real world. greenhouse and garden center operators rely on experience. a few years ago NPR held a seminar bringing together business school professors and silicon valley executives. when they interview these people after the seminar both .groups claimed that the other did not know what they were talking about. I think the experience of successful business men carries more weight that the theories of a group of college professors. most of what I know about growing I learned from nurseries, garden centers and professional gardeners. at these businesses I do not see LEDs or HPS lights in their indoor gardens. what I do see is T8s, T5s and MH lights.I believe these successful business men know more about growing plant than some college professor. but then I grow in soil and not on chalk boards

Old vs new.

 

[Yodaweed]

What even does this mean? HID is worse for two reasons: The bulb outputs in 360 degrees, therefore there WILL be reflector losses. COB has the potential for much higher intensity and this is because they are ridiculously small and all you need to do is place them closer together.

When it comes to distance to light; aka: inverse square law, COB > HID.

It means don't measure your par readings in a 2d pattern, did you not take calculus 3? and inverse square HID > COB , single point > multiple points, COBs main advantage is they can be strategically placed(spread out the light) , but they are in no way more intense than a good quality 1000w hid light.

 

[a mongo frog]

The point being that I may be off but even I get the wost result Ive seen, (1.2g/w) Ill be getting 2.25Lbs from the same area. So multiply that by 9 (150sq/ft flower room) and thats 20.25lbs every 2 months. With a 1 month Veg.

But thats the same as a phillips bulb in a DE cranked down to 1000 watts, on small yielding strains.

 

[TogiX]

It means don't measure your distance in a 2d pattern, did you not take calculus 3? and inverse square HID > COB , single point > multiple points, COBs main advantage is they can be strategically placed(spread out the light) , but they are in no way more intense than a good quality 1000w hid light.

HID light goes from bulb -> reflector -> canopy.

COB light goes from diode -> canopy.

You don't even need reflectors unless you lack side reflectors because they output from 2D -> 3D and when it only needs to go down, there are simply fewer losses thermodynamically.

Also in this context, "intensity" refers to photons per square meter, and if you put a 1000w HID vs 1000w COB, the COB will win in PPFD every time because the fixture is simply more efficient.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

But thats the same as a phillips bulb in a DE cranked down to 1000 watts, on small yielding strains.

No cooling needed

 

[a mongo frog]

No cooling needed

Im down for that! So 10 of your 900watt cob rigs together needs no cooling?

 

[Yodaweed]

HID light goes from bulb -> reflector -> canopy.

COB light goes from diode -> canopy.

You don't even need reflectors unless you lack side reflectors because they output from 2D -> 3D and when it only needs to go down, there are simply fewer losses.

Also in this context, "intensity" refers to photons per square meter, and if you put a 1000w HID vs 1000w COB, the COB will win in PPFD every time because the fixture is simply more efficient.

There's not 1000w cob, but yes if a single cob was able to have as much par as a 1000w hps it most likely would have better penetration because of reflector losses. Most COB's are run around 50-75 watts though, that's why they lack penetration. The only high wattage COB i know of is that flip opto one, and i havent heard much on it.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

Im down for that! So 10 of your 900watt cob rigs together needs no cooling?

3000W of cobs is the same as one DE HPS so maybe a few watts

 

[Yodaweed]

No cooling needed

bull shit, my 450 watts of leds still need exhaust and intake for cooling.

 

[Yodaweed]

3000W of cobs is the same as one DE HPS so maybe a few watts

WTF? where do you get this info? Do you have anything to back it up at all? 3000w of any energy source produces nearly equal heat as another.... first law of thermodynamics....

 

[ttystikk]

Apples and oranges, in my opinion. LED guys seem to fixate on graphs and efficiency numbers to "prove" everything. Some people like me aren't as concerned about all that. I just want a bright light that grows my marijuana. If you grow during the hot time of the year, then LEDs can be your friend by not adding a lot of extra heat to the grow space. If you grow during the cold time of the year, then an HID system might be your friend because of the heat they add. T5s are great, too, but you'd probably need to be a good scrogger to get the most out of them for flower -because you need to keep the tubes very close to the top of the canopy...but Hell yeah, they are user-friendly/spectrum-customizable and they can grow cannabis!

Both of those problems- too hot in summer and too cold in winter- are really caused by the same shortcoming; inadequate insulation. Once you've solved that problem, you won't be fooled into thinking HID is doing you any favors.

 

[TogiX]

There's not 1000w cob, but yes if a single cob was able to have as much par as a 1000w hps it most likely would have better penetration because of reflector losses. Most COB's are run around 50-75 watts though, that's why they lack penetration. The only high wattage COB i know of is that flip opto one, and i havent heard much on it.

Penetration = PPFD. (Unless you're referring to the Sieve effect where green refluoresces throughout plant matter MUCH more efficiently than any other color)

You get 1500 PPFD max in best case scenario.

We're also not talking about SINGLE COBs. We're talking about fixture vs fixture. We don't need to confine out light outputting area to the size of a bulb because we aren't measuring PPF, we're measuring PPFD.

 

[a mongo frog]

3000W of cobs is the same as one DE HPS so maybe a few watts

So for your project your still going to need a 2 ton split system?

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

WTF? where do you get this info? Do you have anything to back it up at all? 3000w of any energy source produces nearly equal heat as another.... first law of thermodynamics....

Yeah its all in the data just look it up it's accurate, I'm playing Overwatch so I don't have time now lol

 

[a mongo frog]

You get 1500 PPFD max in best case scenario.

You better raise your fixtures.

 

[Yodaweed]

Penetration = PPFD. (Unless you're referring to the Sieve effect where green refluoresces throughout plant matter MUCH more efficiently than any other color)

You get 1500 PPFD max in best case scenario.

We're also not talking about SINGLE COBs. We're talking about fixture vs fixture. We don't need to confine out light outputting area to the size of a bulb because we aren't measuring PPF, we're measuring PPFD.

Your whole sentence is the exact reason i said we live in a 3d world not 2d...PPFD is a square measurement not cubed. Please reread my previous comments.

 

[TogiX]

Your whole sentence is the exact reason i said we live in a 3d world not 2d...PPFD is a square measurement not cubed. Please reread my previous comments.

If you're emitting light down to a square area, it is simply better to output light from a 2D area than a 3D one because you don't need to redirect any of that light. If you read any of my replies instead of skimming then you'd understand how I'm elaborating on your "3D" comment in the context of a plant grow room.

But go ahead and continue the bro science. At the end of it all it's all just an electric bill.

 

[Stephenj37826]

Watts in equals the same amount of heat regardless. Now that being said the two technologies mentioned (HPS/HID, and LED) have vastly different heat "types". HPS/HID has infrared radiant heat that actually heats everything the light touches. The waste heat from LEDs on the other hand is compounding conductive heat. This heat is expelled from the chips into the heat sinks and eventually released into the air. Note in a closed sealed environment both technologies will run at the same temperature at any given equal wattage. Once you start to exchange air though the LED does actually run cooler as the heat didn't first heat soak the solid objects below the light like in the case of HID. So think of it as if you are extracting air from the top of the grow space the heat from LEDs is never actually below the light and is removed with a fan. So this is why it seems as if LEDs run cooler. It's because in most people's grow situation they actually do.

 

[MeGaKiLlErMaN]

Watts in equals the same amount of heat regardless. Now that being said the two technologies mentioned (HPS/HID, and LED) have vastly different heat "types". HPS/HID has infrared radiant heat that actually heats everything the light touches. The waste heat from LEDs on the other hand is compounding conductive heat. This heat is expelled from the chips into the heat sinks and eventually released into the air. Note in a closed sealed environment both technologies will run at the same temperature at any given equal wattage. Once you start to exchange air though the LED does actually run cooler as the heat didn't first heat soak the solid objects below the light like in the case of HID. So think of it as if you are extracting air from the top of the grow space the heat from LEDs is never actually below the light and is removed with a fan. So this is why it seems as if LEDs run cooler. It's because in most people's grow situation they actually do.

I thought that heat watts were the thing to go by because the rest is generated into light? Is that not the case? Because if it is then the 3000W of 60% Ef cobs are a DE HPS

 

[Stephenj37826]

I thought that heat watts were the thing to go by because the rest is generated into light? Is that not the case? Because if it is then the 3000W of 60% Ef cobs are a DE HPS

Around 95+% of the light also turns into heat as well. Some is carried away as humidity from transperation. Almost all energy in ends up as heat in the end.

That being said if you can reach your desired light level with lower energy in then you have improved system efficiency.