Free CO2 with Living Soil

[greasemonkeymann]

Night cycle 1432 ppm and you can notice the regulator isn't plugged in nor has it for weeks. Some may be accounted for plant respiration for sure but not nearly as much as bacterial and fungal decomposition of SOM.

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I gotcha man, the primary reason i'm skeptical is because I knew a friend of mine that tried to incorporate his rabbit-hutch and his grow-room in the same room, and his 12 rabbits breathing non-stop didn't even come close to getting the ppms that high, so I am having trouble understanding how soil could outproduce co2 levels of 12 warmblooded rabbits.
that's what i'm saying
you follow me?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

At what ratios? I use it as a technique to build my songbird population. Love Hugel even before it had a name.

in the "summer" mix it's about 10% to 15%
I don't use it in the winter, acts like vermiculite sorta, like tiny wooded sponges.
you gotta charge em prior too, akin to biochar
also if you pick the right type it melts to pure humus every two runs or so

 

[NaturalFarmer]

in the "summer" mix it's about 10% to 15%
I don't use it in the winter, acts like vermiculite sorta, like tiny wooded sponges.
you gotta charge em prior too, akin to biochar
also if you pick the right type it melts to pure humus every two runs or so

Does it rob your nitrogen? I have always needed (or thought I needed) clover to combat this.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

I gotcha man, the primary reason i'm skeptical is because I knew a friend of mine that tried to incorporate his rabbit-hutch and his grow-room in the same room, and his 12 rabbits breathing non-stop didn't even come close to getting the ppms that high, so I am having trouble understanding how soil could outproduce co2 levels of 12 warmblooded rabbits.
that's what i'm saying
you follow me?

Im thinking billions of microbes vs twelve rabbits. It wouldn't hurt but the crap may offgass ammonia too much and stunt growth.
Look at the Solvita test which measures soil health by measuring CO2 and NH3 gases
https://solvita.com/compost/

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Im thinking billions of microbes vs twelve rabbits. It wouldn't hurt but the crap may offgass ammonia too much and stunt growth.
Look at the Solvita test which measures soil health by measuring CO2 and NH3 gases
https://solvita.com/compost/

but it's all about the weight, not the number, billions of microbes can fit on a pencil eraser.
One rabbit?
how many microbes do you think equals a 3 lb rabbit?
or another question is, do you have three pounds of pure microbes in there?
hmmmm...

Does it rob your nitrogen? I have always needed (or thought I needed) clover to combat this.

nah, hence the charge part
if you soak em in nitrogen they are good to go, the best being urea

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Im thinking billions of microbes vs twelve rabbits. It wouldn't hurt but the crap may offgass ammonia too much and stunt growth.
Look at the Solvita test which measures soil health by measuring CO2 and NH3 gases
https://solvita.com/compost/

I mix my pile and aerate it to the degree that the ammonia gasoff is kept to a minimum, if not eliminated.
when my soil is done, it's done, so the co2 is almost nil at that point, remember the co2 is created during the composting, not after.
and we all know that growing plants in compost that isn't done can create its own host of issues..
heat, acidic conditions, nitrogen sequestering, etc.
the compost i use is all finished, so I am skeptical on how much that increases ambient co2 levels.
maybe if you had a bigass compost pile in your growroom next to your plants, but the soil itself??
I have a pretty good grasp on biology and chemistry and what I know of it seems to lead me elsewhere...

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Does it rob your nitrogen? I have always needed (or thought I needed) clover to combat this.

the thing is clover doesn't really work like that, in order to get that nitrogen from the atmosphere the entire clover plant must be allowed to degrade back into the soil itself, another thing to consider is that clover does take nutrients from the soil itself, in container grows where the soil doesn't have a "rest" period, nitrogen fixing legumes are sorta not useful.. They take more than they give.
don't get me wrong though, they do work well for early pest infestations (canary in the gold mine)

 

[NaturalFarmer]

but it's all about the weight, not the number, billions of microbes can fit on a pencil eraser.
One rabbit?
how many microbes do you think equals a 3 lb rabbit?
or another question is, do you have three pounds of pure microbes in there?
hmmmm...
nah, hence the charge part
if you soak em in nitrogen they are good to go, the best being urea

I never counted how many microbes fit into 300 gallons but I know how much CO2 they produce.
Where do you get organic urea?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I never counted how many microbes fit into 300 gallons but I know how much CO2 they produce.
Where do you get organic urea?

from my weiner

sorry couldn't resist.
all kidding aside, the best source is urine.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

The majoriity of the CO2 is being created by fungal digestion of peat.....At least this is what they tell me by smell and I've done a few experiments.

 

[ttystikk]

no need to get confrontational, I wasn't attacking you, I just said I was a skeptic.

think about it.
A normally ventilated room will grow plants rapidly, the only time you want co2 is when you have intense lights that have enough light to exceed what the ambient ppms allows for.
So in other words, high levels of co2 don't do anything if you don't have high lights.

the lights ALWAYS matter, almost always the law of the minimum is with the lights, and when you do in fact have enough lights to warrant the enriched co2, but that's where heat becomes an issue.
so I ask again, what type of lights are you using that produce enough PAR to warrant the needed co2?

I used co2 for almost four yrs and I found it to be superfluous when compared to a normal grow using ambient ventilation
I'm not attacking you, i'm asking you

Higher light intensities can magnify a plant's ability to uptake co2. The reason why people push 1500ppm is that it DOES return increased growth vs ambient levels of around 400ppm under high intensity conditions. This has been shown to be the case under sunlight in greenhouses as well.

Turns out that co2 helps roots as well. I'm unsure of the mechanism.

Many factors affect co2 uptake and you could have run afoul of any of them. For example, low RH levels cause the plant's stomata to close, hindering its ability to absorb co2.

A sealed room MUST have supplemental co2 since the plants will deplete natural levels rapidly. If an organically active soil can provide nutrition for both roots and leaves, why not?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I never counted how many microbes fit into 300 gallons but I know how much CO2 they produce.
Where do you get organic urea?

so in a 8x8x8 room one pound of CO2 makes 8.7 cubic feet of CO2 gas at normal atmospheric conditions. In a standard 8 X 8' X 8' grow room, you will need to generate 512 cu. ft. X .0013 (1300 PPM CO2) = 0.66 cubic feet of CO2 every four hours.
according to the chart listed here

https://solvita.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/SOLVITA-SOIL-MASTER-manual-vers2016.1.0.pdf

you have 25-65 grams per day of co2 created, per cubic meter of compost.
unless I am reading that wrong, that means you need a bigass actively composting compost pile in order to get photosynthetic increasing amounts of co2

here is a copy and paste from the site you linked

Solvita measures two compounds, carbon dioxide (CO2) and ammonia (NH3), which are often connected to volatile compost emissions and can be a predictor of instability. Toward the end of composting, low levels of CO2 and ammonia are expected. High release of either or both gases indicates an unstable and possibly odorous condition associate with very actively degrading compost. The Solvita test measures both gases and makes it easy to interpret results with the Compost Maturity Index that is used to determine where on the scale your compost falls

I highlighted the part I thought useful

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Higher light intensities can magnify a plant's ability to uptake co2. The reason why people push 1500ppm is that it DOES return increased growth vs ambient levels of around 400ppm under high intensity conditions. This has been shown to be the case under sunlight in greenhouses as well.

Turns out that co2 helps roots as well. I'm unsure of the mechanism.

Many factors affect co2 uptake and you could have run afoul of any of them. For example, low RH levels cause the plant's stomata to close, hindering its ability to absorb co2.

A sealed room MUST have supplemental co2 since the plants will deplete natural levels rapidly. If an organically active soil can provide nutrition for both roots and leaves, why not?

i'm not arguing the usage of it, or even the theory behind it. (I think its admirable, honestly)

my argument is why re-invent the wheel
get ventilation and call it a day.

when I ran co2 I had bigger yields, but not the degree where it warranted the additional concerns, chasing humidity from the added transpiration was a bitch, chasing temps was a bitch, etc, etc.

IF, there is NO choice? and you MUST grow in a sealed environment?
then fuck yea, i'd be ALL over that, 6 days a week and twice on sundays

Furthermore...
don't YOU have like a jungle to trim up?
go get your scissors and get back to work man

(kidding)

 

[SPLFreak808]

It took me 70 gallons of hot peat/compost ect to raise a 1000cf room to 1200ppm but it only lasted for like 5 days... My regulator had a one week vacation lol

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Toward the end of composting, low levels of CO2 and ammonia are expected.
I highlighted the part I thought useful

From orginal post.

Second grow in same soil now, still able to maintain 800-1200ppm using forest microbes and EM-1 but decomposition has slowed to the level its hard to manipulate it as much with same temps/water.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

It took me 70 gallons of hot peat/compost ect to raise a 1000cf room to 1200ppm but it only lasted for like 5 days... My regulator had a one week vacation lol

hydrated and what temp?

 

[ttystikk]

i'm not arguing the usage of it, or even the theory behind it. (I think its admirable, honestly)

my argument is why re-invent the wheel
get ventilation and call it a day.

when I ran co2 I had bigger yields, but not the degree where it warranted the additional concerns, chasing humidity from the added transpiration was a bitch, chasing temps was a bitch, etc, etc.

IF, there is NO choice? and you MUST grow in a sealed environment?
then fuck yea, i'd be ALL over that, 6 days a week and twice on sundays

Furthermore...
don't YOU have like a jungle to trim up?
go get your scissors and get back to work man

(kidding)

Sealed environment leads to higher performance and better yields than ventilation. This is not just my own opinion, it's well recognized that when growing conditions are actively optimized you get better results.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to trimming.

 

[SPLFreak808]

hydrated and what temp?

Yes, room ambient at 80f. Its also worth mentioning i was vegging under 1kw in the same room so i had different readings day and night... 4 plants in a 10x10 only using 4x4 lol
For the most part i was only really concerned why my readings were always so high but the regulator was always closed? It was the cooking soil i had stacked in moist trash bags against the wall.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Yes, room ambient at 80f. Its also worth mentioning i was vegging under 1kw in the same room so i had different readings day and night... 4 plants in a 10x10 only using 4x4 lol
For the most part i was only really concerned why my readings were always so high but the regulator was always closed? It was the cooking soil i had stacked in moist trash bags against the wall.

It is possible that the rice hull is the main culprit than if not peat in mine. I would think Coco takes too long.

 

[Rrog]

I stopped by to say I think this is like trying to invent perpetual motion machines. They seem plausible until we sober up and do the math. Then we find we've wasted precious time and the whole thing is an impossiblity