Northern Grow Lights Photon 180 Citizen 1825 90 CRI

[bri77]

@robincnn the dimming function does work in this manner right? Reducing the PPFD in μMol/M-2S-1? When dimming the lights do you also reduce the power draw?

Yes, power draw is reduced and you get higher efficency aswell. 2 lights dimmed giving the same total ppfd will draw less power,less heat and be more evenly spread.

 

[Aruanda]

Okay, I will follow these suggestions and place the second COB unit back in the tent early next week and dial everything back in. Thank you everyone for your considerations and suggestions. I feel there is a sensible way to move forward with the two units in this grow but was good to become aware of what excesses on light output will manifest and to adjust accordingly.

@hillbill, so if I understood correctly, I should place the two units side by side but with the dimmer control knobs facing away from each other so the array is in a square position, correct?

 

[Bubblin]

Okay, I will follow these suggestions and place the second COB unit back in the tent early next week and dial everything back in. Thank you everyone for your considerations and suggestions. I feel there is a sensible way to move forward with the two units in this grow but was good to become aware of what excesses on light output will manifest and to adjust accordingly.

@hillbill, so if I understood correctly, I should place the two units side by side but with the dimmer control knobs facing away from each other so the array is in a square position, correct?

Ya kinda can't go wrong with more light sources, and yea a square will give more a more symmetrical spread in your tent.

I'm running 4x 1818's myself about 16 inches up, she's loving it. Although the nute requirements are a lot higher for my setup vs the last run with hid. It's the first time in a while I've run into an actual deficiency, it was kinda of exciting lol.

 

[Aruanda]

I guess that is one main concern is the nutrient requirements. I've been soaking up a lot of knowledge here on organics, DIY nutrients, ROLS, etc. I'm not exactly in a place where I can fully experiment or have access to all the ingredients I'd like just yet. I've had to place several online orders for things. I've got some guanos, neem meal (mainly for topdress pest control at this point, however my FG problem seems to have diminished after several soil sprayings with a cinnamon tea), humid/fulvic acids and rock phosphate on its way in the next week or so. I'm about to go out of town this weekend to the mountains and hunt some forest humus/mycelium to bring back for fungal dominant AACTs through the rest of this grow cycle. Would just like to not have to fall back on requiring more bottled stuff as my soil mix is not a heavily amended one.

With all the knowledge I am acquiring here though, I'm really looking forward to the 2017 grow cycle(s) with the preparations I'll be taking/making.


I guess it is or could be of interest and I should be posting when I give feedings and what my inputs and ratios of things are for anything significant. I've been keeping meticulous notes on my phone but publishing them here is probably worthwhile to understand what inputs are accompanying these stellar lights.

 

[hillbill]

For some reason I have cal/mg deficiencies under any led I've used. Never had this with hps or cmh. I also have the last 1818 and just love the damn thing. I have the 3500k 90 cri and that light is so pleasing to be around! For the way I grow with a flat canopy, it easily replaces a 400w hps which I had for years.12 to 16 inches seems ideal with it and those monster lenses are incredible at giving even coverage.

 

[robincnn]

@robincnn the dimming function does work in this manner right? Reducing the PPFD in μMol/M-2S-1? When dimming the lights do you also reduce the power draw?

yes the power goes down as you dim. Photon 180 can be dimmed from Min 25-30watts to Max 180-190 Watts
COB efficiency increases as you Dim.
Driver efficiency vs load is like this.

2 Photons in 6sqft tent at full power is too much. Dim down to 60% if you have 2 lamps.

 

[Aruanda]

What are the 277VAC, 230VAC and 115VAC values shown here on the graph Robin? Or if anyone can reply to that. I gotta study up more on the technical stuff with light and these COBs again...

I see myself getting into DIY COB at some point.

 

[pop22]

I think you have the wrong suspects...lol! If your lights are at 10" they could very well be experiencing light burn. It can manifest in several ways, including looking like cal/mag problems. Also, cal/mag problems could also be caused by too much light causing chlorophyll degradation.

[Update: Day 22 of flower (since flip)]:

Spent like 2h reconfiguring and gerryrigging my set-up to include the second Photon 180 - 3500K 80CRI. The left side is the 90, the right side is the 80. The tallest tops on my flowers are only 25cm(10in) from the light so I may raise it a bit more tomorrow after switching out the cables for daisy chains. However, the lower tops have a nuanced stratification between 46-56cm (18-22in) from the light.

Some considerations with the addition of the second light is that as I am already seeing some calcium deficiency spots (or what appear to be anyway, dead necrotic spots on some leaves), the plants will certainly need a boost of Cal to complete their cycle. Nutrient demand in general may increase. I think my CalPhos solution made from bone meal and apple cider vinegar should be done soon and my homemade bloom fertilizer is brewing (my local hydro shop is waiting on an order of CalMag and it's not easily available to me but would prefer not to even buy stuff like that).
I'm still working with some of the bottled BioBizz products. My last soil drench feeding included these products along with molasses, silica powder, horsetail tea and 2tsp of Epsom salt. The following days showed some progression of burnt tips on leaves which leads me to believe that the Epsom salt is to blame and should be discontinued. The molasses should probably account for any and all magnesium the girls are requiring.

Current RH is 38%
Current temp is 82°F

The temps are another consideration. Will have to readjust what I keep my AC at. Would about 80-82° be ideal during the lights on? Everything I've read says max should be about 79°.


View attachment 3819354 View attachment 3819355 View attachment 3819357

 

[pop22]

Pics?

For some reason I have cal/mg deficiencies under any led I've used. Never had this with hps or cmh. I also have the last 1818 and just love the damn thing. I have the 3500k 90 cri and that light is so pleasing to be around! For the way I grow with a flat canopy, it easily replaces a 400w hps which I had for years.12 to 16 inches seems ideal with it and those monster lenses are incredible at giving even coverage.

 

[hillbill]

Remember the infamous hash tips?

 

[robincnn]

What are the 277VAC, 230VAC and 115VAC values shown here on the graph Robin? Or if anyone can reply to that. I gotta study up more on the technical stuff with light and these COBs again...

I see myself getting into DIY COB at some point.

If you are running at 110V/120V then go with the 115VAC Chart. The power cable that came with the lamp is standard 110V/120V power plug.
230VAC chart if you are using the 220V plug

 

[Aruanda]

First pic here is 25cm (10in) from bottom of lens:


Second pic is just beyond and below the first pictured leaf:


Third pic is below the first leaf, somewhat shaded:



Zoom out of more of the plant:



The other back row plant, leaf closeup of symptoms:



One thing I'd say is that these leaves are closer to being directly under the lenses. The two LST plants in the front have some symptoms appearing to be Cal deficiency but lower down in the canopy and somewhat shaded.

 

[Aruanda]

[Day 26 from flip]:

Snapped a few photos just before lights on with the flash. They are looking decent but I believe I have a Cal-Mag deficiency for sure. Somewhat hard to diagnose between Mag and N deficiency but some mid leaves have shown 'the claw' when I give a feeding with any amount of N. They seem finnicky about that input now that they are in flower. They appear to be a lighter lime green except for the flowering tops. My last watering was a flush (for the second time) on the 1st and the pots are still a bit heavy with moisture but not their full weight.

I ran an experiment with some organic popcorn type corn kernels I have here to see if they'd germinate for an SST. So far a number of them have appeared to germ but not a majority. Put a cup of water in the jar and now aerating to see if I can get a majority to germ today then blend them and strain along with 7mL BioBloom, 6mL BioHeaven, 3mL BioGrow, 1tbsp molasses, 1tbsp LAB, 1tsp of the Cal/carb-Cal/phos solution (still has some time to go for full extraction of the egg shells/bone meal) and possibly 1/2tsp or less of Epsom (last use showed leaf tip burn @ 2tsp/gal) in 4L of water. Gunna pick up some bottled mineral water today to use instead of the tap as I don't know the PPM (should be picking up the TDS meter early next week).

I'm open to critique on this feeding. It seems like a lot of mixing of elements here and I do recognise the wisdom of K.I.S.S.

 

[Aruanda]

Okay, so I skipped out on the corn SST because the seeds had a low rate of germination. Gunna shop around some more where I am at for better seeds. Pretty much everything else in my last post I fed with however. The plants seem a bit greener these last two days since feeding, but some progression on the leaf tip burn. They also have a real "green" smell and maybe that is because of too much N?

The yellowed lower growth trips me out in this respect because it looks like N deficiency but I'm really coming to the conclusion that its more a Mag deficiency from all that I've read. I used 3L of mineral water with 16.78mg Cal and 9.06mg Mag per L. Could be that they have expired in their use and not getting enough light lower in the canopy and are simply yellowing out. I find myself removing a couple every few days that just snap right off. Also, the newest growth have some small fan leaves that have folded downward like a reverse taco and I am not quite sure what that means...

I'm going to switch over to mineral water and see what my neighborhood distributor's water composition is like and may start ordering the 5gal water jugs. Beginning to suspect my tap water isn't quite cutting it plus I found out it is also treated with chloramine.


Anyway, just going to post a few more photos I snapped with my wife's phone which has a better resolution. Today marks 28 days from flip.

 

[Aruanda]

Okay, one more update since it's relevant: I added the second light back in the tent and using a lux meter on my phone calculated what should be about 60% intensity of the lights. This was after giving a watering with 4.5L mineral water, 300mL fresh organic coconut water, 1tbsp Aloe Vera gel straight from the plant, 1tsp humic/fulvic acid, 1tsp liquid kelp, 1/3tsp silica powder and 1/2tsp magnesium acetate. I see some reddening on my leaf margins and between the veins and I'm suspecting it's a K deficiency starting to pop up. Looks like the plant deficiencies are compounding



Hopefully the second light even at 60% doesn't compound their deficiency problems even further. However, I have this FFJ (banana, mango, papaya) maybe halfway done, calcarb/calphos solution is in the works and a fermented horsetail tea (mainly for silica) as well. Will probably do another topdress soon, just waiting on this neem meal to arrive along with some guanos (1-1-3/ 0-7-0), EWC, and some other goodies.

 

[Aruanda]

I have some of this purple showing up on my leaves and I am wondering if it is from light burn?

It's showing up on the tops and fan leaves closest to the lights but also farther down and not directly under the lights. They feel a bit thicker and textured compared to the other leaves. My only other hypothesis is this could maybe be molybedium or possibly just a genetic trait of this cultivar? Thoughts anyone?

I turned the lights down a bit farther just in case.

 

[Aruanda]

It may be lack of P... though I had included both bone meal and now more recently a second topdressing with rock phosphate and a bit more bone meal as well as high P guano. Hmmm...

 

[Millsie]

@Growmau5 - Not sure how busy you are dude but any chance of having a look at this?

Shame about the def but personally I'm really digging how the plant looks

 

[Aruanda]

Shame about the def but personally I'm really digging how the plant looks

No worries, thanks tho!
I'm not so sure about it being a deficiency now though. Could really be a color change due to genetics. Didn't get that info from the breeder. The more I look into it though, light burn may not have such effects and P def would be lower to mid leaves as it's a mobile nutrient. They definitely yellowed a bunch in the earlier stages of flower and I gave a few feedings of Stump Tea Veg Boost (10-0-0) which within minutes they greened up but not a whole lot. I'm backing off on the N now though.

I'm kinda weary of force feeding, would like to use up the rest of the liquid bottled organic nutes I have this cycle or next. I felt much better applying the lastest topdressing which included EWC, neem meal, rock phosphate, bone meal, guanos, a bit of lime and some mycos. That way the plant can pull what it needs, when it needs from those reserves and through the soil web. They seemed to respond well too (however, they may not get to really take full advantage of several of these slower release amendments this cycle). Anyway, don't know if I'm ever preaching to the choir.


Picked up a pack of fresher looking organic popcorn and I am trying to have them sprouted by tomorrow. Tomorrow will be a Perigee Moon (Supermoon) and trying to time the synergy of a corn SST with the potential of the Supermoon. Hopefully I get a high rate of germ...

http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/super-full-moon.html

 

[Aruanda]

[Flower: Day 42 since flip]

Got back into town this evening fretting that these plants would look worse than they do at this point. They don't look great but I'm starting to see swelling in the calyxes/flowers. Tomorrow will mark the start of week 7 and I will probably do one, or possibly 2 more feedings this week with the BioBizz products as well as some of my FFJ that is now ready. I may be experiencing some lockout issues. It would be nice to get a better handle on what I all have going on here to better know what to do moving forward. I'll give an analysis of what I think when the cycle is done.