Mother plant no longer giving good plants

[jimmykimmel]

hey all, just a quick one.

Over the last 5-6 years we've been using the same mother for cuttings and he last 2 years or so the plants seem to have taken a really bad turn.

The buds are no longer dense as they used to be, they foxtail now and they ever used too.

Yield and quality is just down. The branches can't even hold themselves with tiny buds on. 5 years ago these plants barely needed any sticking up at all.

Anyway my question is this. Over the years we've had to take a cutting and make another mother quite a few times 6-8 times so it's like 8th generation. Could this be the reason? Do plants get weaker when you take clones off a clone? Or would it be down to treatment over the years?

 

[☢Smokey♛Dragon♨❀]

Yeah your right, they weaken from each generation and start loosing potency, yield, density, and all other mothers traits, you shouldn't ever really take a clone from a clone, but that's just my opinion...
I did recently take a chronic lights clone from my mother plant and plan on keeping it in veg for awhile I may take some clones from this one after it bushes out, just so that I can flower them but they'll be 2nd gen and should still keep most of the genetics that we seek. I just feel like its a bad idea to start a mother plant from clone...

 

[THE KONASSURE]

the problem is if you do want to re-clone a clone to make a new mother the 1st clone you take is the best one to use but more than likely you will use the last clone you take

Lower down branches seem to give the longest lasting clones where as clones from higher branches normally bud better

I would go again from seed or a good clone, when taking a clone to use as a mum make a choice to take a lower branch for longer life and easier rooting or a higher branch, normally more gender stable and will flower a bit better but they don`t veg as well as cuttings taken from low down, I`m talking pre adult branches so before they stagger or sex

the small risk from taking cuttings that low down is sometimes just sometimes they can sex male instead of female because there unsexed, funny when you see clones from the same plant most of the female but you get the odd male normally something happens to make that happen

but if you have a good mum seed a cutting early and keep the seeds incase you need to replace her

 

[Chorse]

Hundreds of people run clone-only strains. Many that have been taking clones from clones for decades. In general we are talking the same DNA here. I personally run a strain that has been cloned for at least 25 years and it is still kick ass. I smoked from this same clone family 20 years ago too and it is pretty much the same animal that it always was. I guess an old mother may have had enough radiation or something to mess with its DNA but...

 

[☢Smokey♛Dragon♨❀]

I think the stress the plant is submitted to in each generation has more to do with degradation than the amount of times its been subsequently cloned. Stress can come from the plant being sick, diseased, environmental changes, having to reveg, or many other factors. Genetics and general vigor from seed also play a part. Some plants don't mind being cloned, while others get woody easily, such as OG Kush.
However keeping mothers takes up space and uses nutes that could be used for bud production, so i'm curious if anyone has done the math about how many generations you can run a lineage for before it starts to loose vigor and you need to start from new seed?

 

[jimmykimmel]

Excellent replies guys I understand now! Guess it's time I seek a new mother.

I would love a mother of that amnesia haze that's floating around the uk.... just can find anyone with a decent mother that's willing!

 

[Chorse]

Excellent replies guys I understand now! Guess it's time I seek a new mother.

I would love a mother of that amnesia haze that's floating around the uk.... just can find anyone with a decent mother that's willing!

Let my try one more time...When you take a cutting from the mother, that cutting and the plant it produces is the genetic equivalent of the mother. Get it? SAME DNA! While plant DNA CAN be genetically modified, it doesn't happen via the cutting process NOR does the mother plant's DNA change over time. So the cutting you take from the mother today is equivalent to the cutting you took 6 years ago from the same mother. Similarly, a clone of a clone of clone off a mother is going to have the SAME DNA of the mother. Any degradation you see between that first clone and the 100th clone is not caused by the plant and most of the info provided by others above is bullshit. Sorry.

 

[jimmykimmel]

I just don't know then, the vigour has totally gone. The plant even seems a lot more fussy, bud quality yield and everything is down and this is across the board over 15-20 rooms

 

[Chorse]

I just don't know then, the vigour has totally gone. The plant even seems a lot more fussy, bud quality yield and everything is down and this is across the board over 15-20 rooms

There is a clone only thread on here that gets a fair amount of traffic and looks to have some knowledgable people...ask your question there and you will find an answer similar to mine. As far as your 20 rooms, I would start looking at other factors that may be new or changed if the DNA of your plants did not.

 

[Chorse]

...oh and it seems a bit strange for you give a range for your number of rooms. If you don't know, who would. . As far as the foxtailing, i had 1 plant foxtail on me out of 6 identical clones, 2 years ago. It happened on a grow where I augmented my HPS with some t5 blues. The foxtailer was in a position to get the most out of both. Following grows, same DNA, I reduced the time the blues were on by 4 hours and I have not had one since. When it comes to foxtails I've read that although certain strains may have a propensity, environment plays a role. Did you have a lighting change?

 

[jimmykimmel]

I would explain about the rooms but this isn't really the place ;p

All I know is every room I'm close too is performing progressively worse over the last few years and everyone else being fed from this mother is also have huge problems across the board.

I really don't believe this mother is anywhere near as strong and vigourous.

Nothing has changed in the setups and it's all going the same way. I've tried a few crops from seed over the last year in one room and it was beautiful.

I just don't know but there's just too much evidence to me that there's something up, maybe its mistreatment maybe it's mutations in the DNA that has happened over the years from what I read this can happen. I don't know nearly enough to know why this is happening but I can certainly say to you that this mother is nowhere near as good as she was all those years ago

X

 

[Marijuana Mercenary]

Everyone seems to have some good points for and against cloning. I do not have much experience cloning, but maybe your problem is equipement/environment degrading?

Do ballasts get weaker over time and put out less light? If so, this could lead to the diminished yields and weaker plants if they are getting less lumens.

Fans build up with dust and move slower for worse ventalation, mylar gets stained and reflects less lumens., etc.. These might be factors also.

 

[jimmykimmel]

From reading around I can see this is a split topic and seems to be many threads around the internet with people arguing lol.

Some say stresses can change the DNA of the plant over time

Some say DNA never changes

I don't know whats right or wrong but something has definitely weakened my mother.

As for equipment, rooms come and go where I work and a lot of the time full new setups are bought. I take on board it could be environmental differences or lack of care but there's just too many people using this strain and they're all garage now lol

 

[Marijuana Mercenary]

Hmm I would definately start a new strain or momma from seed if you believe it is the problem. I wouldn't switch all your rooms over at once but check if it makes a difference.

 

[jimmykimmel]

We've got a couple new breeds going at the minute giving them a go, I tell you it's a great change the plants are so good compared. Sadly the end product isn't anywhere near as good as our previous was

Any recommendations are welcome if anyone knows a good stink blue cheese / amnesia haze breeder ;p

 

[Chorse]

I would explain about the rooms but this isn't really the place ;p

All I know is every room I'm close too is performing progressively worse over the last few years and everyone else being fed from this mother is also have huge problems across the board.

I really don't believe this mother is anywhere near as strong and vigourous.

Nothing has changed in the setups and it's all going the same way. I've tried a few crops from seed over the last year in one room and it was beautiful.

I just don't know but there's just too much evidence to me that there's something up, maybe its mistreatment maybe it's mutations in the DNA that has happened over the years from what I read this can happen. I don't know nearly enough to know why this is happening but I can certainly say to you that this mother is nowhere near as good as she was all those years ago

X

I did not comment on the vibrancy of your mother. She can be a dried out old hag with a bug problem, but if you can get a cutting from her that lives...her condition is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[HydroRed]

hey all, just a quick one.

Over the last 5-6 years we've been using the same mother for cuttings and he last 2 years or so the plants seem to have taken a really bad turn.

The buds are no longer dense as they used to be, they foxtail now and they ever used too.

Yield and quality is just down. The branches can't even hold themselves with tiny buds on. 5 years ago these plants barely needed any sticking up at all.

Anyway my question is this. Over the years we've had to take a cutting and make another mother quite a few times 6-8 times so it's like 8th generation. Could this be the reason? Do plants get weaker when you take clones off a clone? Or would it be down to treatment over the years?

Have you ever flowered the mom, or revegged or had a stint where the momma wasnt doing well and pulled back through? Thats about the only way I can think that the degradation would set in on a momma. Think about it, there are roses that have been cut from the same genetics used over 100 yrs ago still flourishing as the day they did on the original momma 100 yrs ago. I've run mommas cut from mommas cut from mommas and so on with zero degradation noticed. I cant help but think that maybe other factors may be at play here with your issue of vigor/plant strength/quality/etc as mentioned above. Never hurts to have a backup strain though...certainly if its a tasty new flavor

 

[THE KONASSURE]

Have you ever flowered the mom, or revegged or had a stint where the momma wasnt doing well and pulled back through? Thats about the only way I can think that the degradation would set in on a momma. Think about it, there are roses that have been cut from the same genetics used over 100 yrs ago still flourishing as the day they did on the original momma 100 yrs ago. I've run mommas cut from mommas cut from mommas and so on with zero degradation noticed. I cant help but think that maybe other factors may be at play here with your issue of vigor/plant strength/quality/etc as mentioned above. Never hurts to have a backup strain though...certainly if its a tasty new flavor

you trying to ask him the last time he changed his bulbs ? lol

 

[HydroRed]

you trying to ask him the last time he changed his bulbs ? lol

That would be a good place to start asking about haha. @Marijuana Mercenary made some good points regarding diminishing equipment/environment.
Though after reading this all again, I have to say that it is a bit odd that more than one person in more than one room should experience the same loss of vigor and end product quality from the same momma.

 

[THE KONASSURE]

That would be a good place to start asking about haha. @Marijuana Mercenary made some good points regarding diminishing equipment/environment.
Though after reading this all again, I have to say that it is a bit odd that more than one person in more than one room should experience the same loss of vigor and end product quality from the same momma.

almost like the mum lost it`s mojo, some bad mycorr got into her or something...... I do find if I GA3 the mum or use some motherkare or plant steroids, the cuttings I get off a mum will grow faster and the mum normally grows more too but long term that could screw up a plant, so check what you`ve been feeding that mum any changes lately ?