Economical multi LED Chip Projects for Growing
- Thread starter DIY-HP-LED
- Start date
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Yep, but I have hot water baseboard and because I'll want 15 C winter coolant temp, I'll have to bite the bullet on the energy saving for heating. If I ran at ambient temps I could probably recover some heat for the house.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
When I finish converting to water I figure there will be close to 1KW of heat going into the system. I haven't figured it out, but depending on the flow rate, the water would probably come out of the lamps a degree or two above where it went in and the reservoir would have to be insulated from the inside ambient temps of 20 - 25 C. No, I'll just write off the energy saving at least for this winter, who knows the bud increase might off set it!
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
PROGRESS ON THE WATER COOLED MODULAR GROW LAMP
Another hot day here in the Great White North and I got less than an hour's work done on the lamp, when in a ball of sweat, I figured it was time for a puff and something cold on the back deck. Nevertheless I did get all five of the remaining tube ends drilled out to 1/2" and rinsed of debris, then I went over everything with a steel wool pad and scrubbed them shiny. Tomorrow the weather people promise cool temperatures and rain, so I should make some progress. So far in about an hours worth of work, I've drilled, cleaned, rinsed all the tubes and finished the cooling system of one bar. I'll put the fittings in the rest of the tubes tomorrow and hook it up for a water leak test. Assuming everything is water tight I'll then put the bars onto the 1" aluminum angle by drilling a couple of holes in the angle per bar and using electrical wire ties. At this point the lamp cooling jackets are complete and now it becomes like any other LED grow light build. Estimated build time up to this point, about 2 to 3 hours.
If you were doing this job with new thick walled tubing, a large pipe threaded 1/2 hose barbed fitting will probably screwed right in the end of the tube and sealed with silicone adhesive. If you factor in cutting the tube to length and only using two or three longer tubes and fewer fittings, you could get away quicker and cheaper than me.
Here is a picture of the drilled tube ends
A shot of the cleaned drilled tubes and the kind of silicone and fittings used in the project.
Another hot day here in the Great White North and I got less than an hour's work done on the lamp, when in a ball of sweat, I figured it was time for a puff and something cold on the back deck. Nevertheless I did get all five of the remaining tube ends drilled out to 1/2" and rinsed of debris, then I went over everything with a steel wool pad and scrubbed them shiny. Tomorrow the weather people promise cool temperatures and rain, so I should make some progress. So far in about an hours worth of work, I've drilled, cleaned, rinsed all the tubes and finished the cooling system of one bar. I'll put the fittings in the rest of the tubes tomorrow and hook it up for a water leak test. Assuming everything is water tight I'll then put the bars onto the 1" aluminum angle by drilling a couple of holes in the angle per bar and using electrical wire ties. At this point the lamp cooling jackets are complete and now it becomes like any other LED grow light build. Estimated build time up to this point, about 2 to 3 hours.
If you were doing this job with new thick walled tubing, a large pipe threaded 1/2 hose barbed fitting will probably screwed right in the end of the tube and sealed with silicone adhesive. If you factor in cutting the tube to length and only using two or three longer tubes and fewer fittings, you could get away quicker and cheaper than me.
Here is a picture of the drilled tube ends
A shot of the cleaned drilled tubes and the kind of silicone and fittings used in the project.
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I already gave the current build's tubes a scrub with steel wool, I would have preferred new thick walled tubing, but these are what were at hand and they were almost made already! I'm using heatsink tape on the current modular design, but I've got higher quality CPU tape coming. When you use tape or pads you don't need to be so particular about flat surfaces between the sink and the LED. I think with the ambient temps and the thermal performance of the water jacket, you could use ways of adhering LEDs that you wouldn't dream of using on an air cooled COB.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Yep, tape like this
CPU tape or pads have a thermal conductivity of 1.5W/m.K equal to that of regular thermal paste,good quality paste is over 7W/m.K
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Grow room air to water cooling conversion project
I got 20ft of 3"x1" rectangular tubing today for the air to water grow conversion and light bars for a friends conversion from air to water. I managed to get these two 10 foot sections into my compact hatchback car and close the back! Cost was $77.CDN + sales tax for 20 foot length cut into two sections (cutting was free) or a cost of $3.85 CDN/ft+tax. I chose this size because it has lots of real estate for LEDs and if I choose in the future to upgrade to COBs like Cree CXB3590s or Vero 29s that use a COB holder I should have enough room to epoxy on the COB holder using JB Weld with a little weight on it until the epoxy sets (I'd use a good grade thermal paste to protect the "growroom crown jewels").
For thermal management, the volume of water the tubing holds is much less important than the flow rate and coolant inlet temps.
This tubing wall thickness allows easy drilling and taping of the holes using a brass pipe fitting, there's plenty of "meat" here for the fitting to bite into. The brass fitting can be replaced with a nylon one for a third of the cost after using it to tap the holes.
I got 20ft of 3"x1" rectangular tubing today for the air to water grow conversion and light bars for a friends conversion from air to water. I managed to get these two 10 foot sections into my compact hatchback car and close the back! Cost was $77.CDN + sales tax for 20 foot length cut into two sections (cutting was free) or a cost of $3.85 CDN/ft+tax. I chose this size because it has lots of real estate for LEDs and if I choose in the future to upgrade to COBs like Cree CXB3590s or Vero 29s that use a COB holder I should have enough room to epoxy on the COB holder using JB Weld with a little weight on it until the epoxy sets (I'd use a good grade thermal paste to protect the "growroom crown jewels").
For thermal management, the volume of water the tubing holds is much less important than the flow rate and coolant inlet temps.
This tubing wall thickness allows easy drilling and taping of the holes using a brass pipe fitting, there's plenty of "meat" here for the fitting to bite into. The brass fitting can be replaced with a nylon one for a third of the cost after using it to tap the holes.
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Went to the hardware store today and found out they only had 2 nylon fittings left, so I ordered some in and they will arrive in a few days. I completed one tube with the nylon fittings I have and I'll set this project aside for a few days.
A completed tube with nylon barbed pipe threaded fittings on each end.
The brass fitting went this far into the 1/2" hole before the thread bit into the aluminum.
Tapping the 1/4" thick aluminum end plugs was a bitch! You can use oil to ease the job, but be sure to remove it with alcohol before applying the silicone and screwing it in.
Remove the brass fitting and replace with a nylon one (if yer cheap like me
). After cleaning the hole and the fitting threads with alcohol and a paper towel to remove contaminates, smear some silicone on the fitting's threads and screw them all the way in or as far as you can.
Nylon fittings are easier to work with than brass and you don't have to thread the brass fitting in too far if you're going to use nylon fittings with silicon on the threads. You can see the kinds of fittings I'm using for this project in the photos.
If I were building something out of new thicker walled 1" square tubing, I'd just use a large nylon 1/2" barbed hose fitting in the end of the tube sealed in with silicone, sand the contact surfaces with coarse sand paper and clean first. The right pipe thread size on a barb fitting will thread right into the tubing, smear it with silicone and twist it in, it won't cut a thread in the aluminum like brass, but it will get pretty tight. For those who don't know, pipe threads are tapered, so that they tighten when screwed in, often pipe dope (not what you clean out of yer pipe
), teflon tape or silicone is used on the threads to prevent leaks. The pipe threads on the fittings shown above will will fit in a 1/2" hole, if you only have a 3/8" chuck on your drill (most folks do), you can use a 1/2" spade bit normally used for wood (drill a 1/8" pilot hole first). If you do this, clamp or firmly hold down the tubing, use oil on the bit, go slow and be very careful, cause if the tube gets away from ya, it can raise a lump or two, or worse. USE CAUTION
A completed tube with nylon barbed pipe threaded fittings on each end.
The brass fitting went this far into the 1/2" hole before the thread bit into the aluminum.
Tapping the 1/4" thick aluminum end plugs was a bitch! You can use oil to ease the job, but be sure to remove it with alcohol before applying the silicone and screwing it in.
Remove the brass fitting and replace with a nylon one (if yer cheap like me
). After cleaning the hole and the fitting threads with alcohol and a paper towel to remove contaminates, smear some silicone on the fitting's threads and screw them all the way in or as far as you can.Nylon fittings are easier to work with than brass and you don't have to thread the brass fitting in too far if you're going to use nylon fittings with silicon on the threads. You can see the kinds of fittings I'm using for this project in the photos.
If I were building something out of new thicker walled 1" square tubing, I'd just use a large nylon 1/2" barbed hose fitting in the end of the tube sealed in with silicone, sand the contact surfaces with coarse sand paper and clean first. The right pipe thread size on a barb fitting will thread right into the tubing, smear it with silicone and twist it in, it won't cut a thread in the aluminum like brass, but it will get pretty tight. For those who don't know, pipe threads are tapered, so that they tighten when screwed in, often pipe dope (not what you clean out of yer pipe
), teflon tape or silicone is used on the threads to prevent leaks. The pipe threads on the fittings shown above will will fit in a 1/2" hole, if you only have a 3/8" chuck on your drill (most folks do), you can use a 1/2" spade bit normally used for wood (drill a 1/8" pilot hole first). If you do this, clamp or firmly hold down the tubing, use oil on the bit, go slow and be very careful, cause if the tube gets away from ya, it can raise a lump or two, or worse. USE CAUTION
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I just placed an order on ebay for a few items I need to complete the air cooled to water cooled grow room conversion, so it will be awhile before the slow boat from China arrives. In the meantime I'll complete the modular light bar and prepare the the 3"x1" cooling tubes of the other lamps for the conversion, do the mechanical construction of the large lamp, including electrical boxes etc, by the time the parts arrive the hard part of construction will be finished.
A cooling system will have to be put together, comprised of a chiller, reservoir and pump. Then the 500 watt monster DIY flowthru air cooled light I just completed will have to be converted and put on a couple of 24" tubes. I might use the cooling tube of the test lamp on this ( different COBS) as well for extra spread and punch. After I've run the complete system of lamps for a while and I'm satisfied with the arrangements, I'll put a water manifold in the grow room and perhaps quick disconnects for the lamps.
The water tubes and the cooling system builds are what will interest most folks, everybody has their own ideas about what to put on the business side of the lamp. It is possible to adhere anything from cheap Chinese 100 watt LEDs, to Vero 29's and Cree CXB3950's to burple and 3 watt monochromes. You might not get much in terms of extra PAR if you use high end white COBs, but your efficiency should go up a bit, if you supplement with reds you'll get a big boost. You can seal and co2 supplement your grow easily and controlling the heat in your tent is simple. Your COBs will love you for it, why they'd last so long they could be passed down a couple of generations like family jewels.
"My great grand daddy used these COBs to grow pot back in the war on reality!"
Try the water, it's cool, efficient and cheap, give yer COBs some cold comfort.
A cooling system will have to be put together, comprised of a chiller, reservoir and pump. Then the 500 watt monster DIY flowthru air cooled light I just completed will have to be converted and put on a couple of 24" tubes. I might use the cooling tube of the test lamp on this ( different COBS) as well for extra spread and punch. After I've run the complete system of lamps for a while and I'm satisfied with the arrangements, I'll put a water manifold in the grow room and perhaps quick disconnects for the lamps.
The water tubes and the cooling system builds are what will interest most folks, everybody has their own ideas about what to put on the business side of the lamp. It is possible to adhere anything from cheap Chinese 100 watt LEDs, to Vero 29's and Cree CXB3950's to burple and 3 watt monochromes. You might not get much in terms of extra PAR if you use high end white COBs, but your efficiency should go up a bit, if you supplement with reds you'll get a big boost. You can seal and co2 supplement your grow easily and controlling the heat in your tent is simple. Your COBs will love you for it, why they'd last so long they could be passed down a couple of generations like family jewels.
"My great grand daddy used these COBs to grow pot back in the war on reality!"Try the water, it's cool, efficient and cheap, give yer COBs some cold comfort.
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I was just sitting here on a Saturday evening having a glass of wine (poison) and smoking a joint (isn't that why we grow?). I was dreaming and scheming of ways to "promote" water cooling and get a few folks trying some cheap experimental setups to post here. I know you nerds are lurking out there, time to come out of your shell!
How about a YouTube Video about this:
1 A 100 watt cheap ebay COB, run with a 50 or 100 watt cheap driver.
2 Attach the COB to the bottom of a clear inflated balloon with double sided CPU tape.
3 Arrange it that a continuous flow of water enters and leaves the ballon.
4 Water can be pumped into and out of the ballon via two small hoses coming out of the top and sealed at he ballon neck.
5 The ballon should be inflated and about 1/4 filled with water that's constantly changing while it's hanging by the hoses.
6 A valve can vary the flow
Now run the COB at various coolant flow rates and see what happens, though only after hours of operation with a good flow rate and some thermal measurements. The problem is keeping the balloon inflated with a small centrifugal pump moving water, looks like the whole system will be have to pressurized to a few millibars (ballon inflating ), doable with a large screw top plastic container as a reservoir and a small copper coil or car heater core as a chiller. Maybe add an aquarium air pump if your system isn't quite tight enough for the demo video, THIS IS NOT FOR GROWING PLANTS
, though with the internet you never know what some folks will get up to.
A beer can cooled cob would be far easier though, use CPU tape and cover the thing in uber cheap ebay 10 watt chips up to the water line and let'er rip! Power it up to 200 or 300+ watts with a converted PC PS or other 12,24 or 36 volt power supply and buck converter(s) to drive the LEDs. This project is appealing, since the first step is deciding what brand of beer to drink before starting.
Don't think it can be done? Before you're tempted to respond, look a bit further up the thread and have a look at this 2 minute video
How about a YouTube Video about this:
1 A 100 watt cheap ebay COB, run with a 50 or 100 watt cheap driver.
2 Attach the COB to the bottom of a clear inflated balloon with double sided CPU tape.
3 Arrange it that a continuous flow of water enters and leaves the ballon.
4 Water can be pumped into and out of the ballon via two small hoses coming out of the top and sealed at he ballon neck.
5 The ballon should be inflated and about 1/4 filled with water that's constantly changing while it's hanging by the hoses.
6 A valve can vary the flow
Now run the COB at various coolant flow rates and see what happens, though only after hours of operation with a good flow rate and some thermal measurements. The problem is keeping the balloon inflated with a small centrifugal pump moving water, looks like the whole system will be have to pressurized to a few millibars (ballon inflating ), doable with a large screw top plastic container as a reservoir and a small copper coil or car heater core as a chiller. Maybe add an aquarium air pump if your system isn't quite tight enough for the demo video, THIS IS NOT FOR GROWING PLANTS
, though with the internet you never know what some folks will get up to.A beer can cooled cob would be far easier though, use CPU tape and cover the thing in uber cheap ebay 10 watt chips up to the water line and let'er rip! Power it up to 200 or 300+ watts with a converted PC PS or other 12,24 or 36 volt power supply and buck converter(s) to drive the LEDs. This project is appealing, since the first step is deciding what brand of beer to drink before starting.
Don't think it can be done? Before you're tempted to respond, look a bit further up the thread and have a look at this 2 minute video
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Cut the 3x1 aluminum tubing today, 2 x five foot cooling tubes for the big rig, 2 x three foot tubes for my buddy's air to water conversion and 2 x two foot sections for converting the DIY air cooled flow thru monster I recently built to water cooling. I used a power miter (cut off) saw with a carbide tipped blade (standard issue with most power saws today). A circular saw works just as well for cutting this stuff to length. It took all of 5 minutes to make all the cuts, a hack saw or even a hand saw could be used for this, though it would be harder, longer and not as good a job would be done. .
I didn't document the build of the air cooled rig, but will document its deconstruction for those interested in how it was put together. I'll convert this lamp to a lighter, cheaper, more efficient water cooled design so we can compare apples to apples. The air cooled version of the same 500 watt vs the water cooled alternative, in terms of cost, build hours, difficulty, etc. I don't need anything to start the conversion of this lamp, so I think I'll start in on documenting and posting the deconstruction and rebuild, after the modular design mentioned above is completed, bench tested, the performance data collected, build tips and the lessons learned are posted here.
I'll fuck up, so you don't have to
I didn't document the build of the air cooled rig, but will document its deconstruction for those interested in how it was put together. I'll convert this lamp to a lighter, cheaper, more efficient water cooled design so we can compare apples to apples. The air cooled version of the same 500 watt vs the water cooled alternative, in terms of cost, build hours, difficulty, etc. I don't need anything to start the conversion of this lamp, so I think I'll start in on documenting and posting the deconstruction and rebuild, after the modular design mentioned above is completed, bench tested, the performance data collected, build tips and the lessons learned are posted here.
I'll fuck up, so you don't have to
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
PUMPS
The pump is the heart of a liquid cooled system and it most often resides in the bottom of the reservoir. The pumps I use are all centrifugal and run on either 12 volts or 120 volts line power and range in power from a cheap ebay 4.3 watt 12V (that's running the test rig) to a large 24 watt 110V that moves more water higher. The flow rate decreases with the head height on these (and all) pumps and they have a maximum head height, but this can be extended with a tall reservoir and high water level relative to the lamps.
Here's how:
The pump is the heart of a liquid cooled system and it most often resides in the bottom of the reservoir. The pumps I use are all centrifugal and run on either 12 volts or 120 volts line power and range in power from a cheap ebay 4.3 watt 12V (that's running the test rig) to a large 24 watt 110V that moves more water higher. The flow rate decreases with the head height on these (and all) pumps and they have a maximum head height, but this can be extended with a tall reservoir and high water level relative to the lamps.
Here's how:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
A closeup of a similar 4.3 watt centrifugal pump to one used in the experimental lamp, it's from the web, on ebay this sells for around $4.78CDN with free shipping. The one in this picture sells for $29.59 US here , but essentially the pump thats on ebay is the same thing with the same power and specs. If you want to play with water cooling order up a couple, from ebay I should think!
If you take the screws off the front and pull out the impeller, you'll see that it and the brushless magnetic motor rotor are one piece. This means there is only one moving part, the rotor/impeller and no seal to wear and leak. The rotor rotates in a sealed plastic cylinder and is lubricated and cooled by a thin layer of water between the plastic winding housing and rotor, very clever engineering. These pumps come in various powers, are very durable, dependable and live almost as long as yer air cooled COBs
If you take the screws off the front and pull out the impeller, you'll see that it and the brushless magnetic motor rotor are one piece. This means there is only one moving part, the rotor/impeller and no seal to wear and leak. The rotor rotates in a sealed plastic cylinder and is lubricated and cooled by a thin layer of water between the plastic winding housing and rotor, very clever engineering. These pumps come in various powers, are very durable, dependable and live almost as long as yer air cooled COBs
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Here is a selection of cheap centrifugal pumps I've acquired so far.
ON THE LEFT:The cheap 12v 4.2 W ebay one (I got 3 to play with cause they're so cheap), it runs the experimental lamp and the outlet fits the 5/16" ID vinyl hose used with 3/8" barbed fittings.
IN THE MIDDLE: A much more powerful 110V 23.5 watt fountain pump that I might use for the first build, it has an outlet that fits the 1/2" ID vinyl hose and fittings. Got it at a charity second hand store for fifty cents works great.
ON THE RIGHT: A 110V 24 watt high capacity and head pump I originally bought for and built an air cloner with. It has a really good head and flow rate and might become the main cooling system pump used to drive the system. This fountain pump hooks up to 3/4" ID vinyl hose and was bought on Amazon or ebay. If I put a manifold in the room this will supply it, since I'm standardizing my system to 1/2" ID vinyl hose, the 3/4" ID hose will supply plenty of head and volume.
3 sizes of pumps and the hoses they use.
TIP: If you're fussy and strive for accuracy in your thermal calculations, don't forget to add in the power used by the pump, almost all of it will be down shifted to heat sooner or later. This is not really necessary, since the capacity of the thermal management system in these designs is usually so great, compared to the load on it.
ON THE LEFT:The cheap 12v 4.2 W ebay one (I got 3 to play with cause they're so cheap), it runs the experimental lamp and the outlet fits the 5/16" ID vinyl hose used with 3/8" barbed fittings.
IN THE MIDDLE: A much more powerful 110V 23.5 watt fountain pump that I might use for the first build, it has an outlet that fits the 1/2" ID vinyl hose and fittings. Got it at a charity second hand store for fifty cents works great.
ON THE RIGHT: A 110V 24 watt high capacity and head pump I originally bought for and built an air cloner with. It has a really good head and flow rate and might become the main cooling system pump used to drive the system. This fountain pump hooks up to 3/4" ID vinyl hose and was bought on Amazon or ebay. If I put a manifold in the room this will supply it, since I'm standardizing my system to 1/2" ID vinyl hose, the 3/4" ID hose will supply plenty of head and volume.
3 sizes of pumps and the hoses they use.
TIP: If you're fussy and strive for accuracy in your thermal calculations, don't forget to add in the power used by the pump, almost all of it will be down shifted to heat sooner or later. This is not really necessary, since the capacity of the thermal management system in these designs is usually so great, compared to the load on it.
Last edited:
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
And even more powerful if you reduced after a few inches from the 3/4 to 1/2"?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
You'll increase the head (no real pressure in these systems) if you decrease the volume by restricting the flow. There's a ton of formulas and charts that go into detail about this. I'm a hands on guy and I'll grab a hose and hold it in the air against a tape and make damn sure they didn't bullshit the specs, or that I'm not bullshitting myself!
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
A BUSINESS IDEA GIVE AWAY
I'm retired, have a good income, am contented, happy, lazy and well past my "best before date". But some of the younger "hungry" types might consider making a business out of welding ends on tubes, putting fittings in and selling water cooled grow bar kits online. If you can or would learn to weld or even braze aluminum and could arrange things, it might be profitable. A pump some hose and even a page or two of instructions etc might be included with some kits. You could make tubes of various sizes and even custom work. A decent website, youtube video(s) and a few posts on the right blogs might go a long way in marketing your product. You could get a lot of youtube hits if you can pull off the water ballon experiment mentioned above as a demo of the power of water cooling.
I'm retired, have a good income, am contented, happy, lazy and well past my "best before date". But some of the younger "hungry" types might consider making a business out of welding ends on tubes, putting fittings in and selling water cooled grow bar kits online. If you can or would learn to weld or even braze aluminum and could arrange things, it might be profitable. A pump some hose and even a page or two of instructions etc might be included with some kits. You could make tubes of various sizes and even custom work. A decent website, youtube video(s) and a few posts on the right blogs might go a long way in marketing your product. You could get a lot of youtube hits if you can pull off the water ballon experiment mentioned above as a demo of the power of water cooling.