Are my buds too small?

thewanderingjack

Well-Known Member
So I'm thinking I both flowered too early and let the temperature get way too high. I've fixed the temp problem with ventilation and what not. I guess next grow let them get bigger first! Thanks a lot guys appreciate the love
I don't think flowering too early was exactly the problem... I only vegged mine a little longer, and all their major leaves had come in... only thing that sprouted after were sugar leaves around the buds. I've also seen plants that have been flowered since sprouts that have more leaves than yours, and no one mentioned them losing many leaves.

The question is why you're leaves have dropped off... usually it's a nute deficiency (nitrogen mostly I believe... but whichever... the plant cannibalizes it's older leaves to feed the new growth).

The temps may have been the factor... I know of plenty of people growing outdoors in that kind of heat, usually it just takes more water. I think temperature variances (too hot or too cold) usually slow/stunt growth and development, not sure if they result in defoliation like this.

Like I said I paid very little attention to my set up... it wasn't until late in veg I started checking water and soil ph (both of which were alkali, the soil VERY alkali at that point) and I've never checked my ppm... used cheap grow soil (so already somewhat fertilized and amended) and cheap nutes (a 5-5-2 fert for veg and a little of a 1-9-2 for bloom). I know I'm lucky, but I would expect what you're seeing in your plants happening to mine more than to yours (in fact, I'm honestly surprised it didn't), with all the attention you put into it. Perhaps your strain is way more sensitive...

Unfortunately it's too late to figure out what went wrong. The leaves are gone and even the circumstances that lead to that have altered. Testing your ph or ppm at this point won't provide you with much useful info, though you may find something you can work on (you just won't know if that was the problem).

@ johnmac240 Yes, as in similarly far along in their development... as in about the same time veg and flower (I vegged for ~6 weeks and just started week 5 of flower... he vegged for 5 and is in week 4-5 of flower). Of course our strains are different (I actually have no idea what mine is)... but I thought it'd help, as a very general comparison.

I also second the 5 gal buckets as being perfectly fine for growing, and I certainly don't think they were the problem here. TONS of people I know use them and do very well. Of course drainage holes are key... but drainage in general is important. I know people who didn't add gravel at the bottom of their planter pots (with tons of great holes) and wound up with sludge. I expect to find some in all my pots because the humidity were I live is really high, such that my 3 gal pots never really dry out... I found white mold and mushrooms growing in my pots a few times, despite hardly watering at all (about twice a week, just enough to see a little water come out the bottom).

Fabric pots do have the advantage of preventing root binding and promoting healthier (bigger/lusher) growth... but then they also dry out faster... a small but noteworthy drawback.
 

Indacouch

Well-Known Member
OK
do a side by side 5 gallon bucket vs 5 gallon nursery pot vs 5 smart pot and get back to me
Nothing wrong with 5 gallon buckets I've actually got access to a garden with all three and I see no difference in the growth whatsoever .....I like smart pots but I've grown big beautiful plants in five gallon buckets many times when I first started ....I think another few problems the OP had was super wet soil and messing with ph in a soil grow is pointless in decent soil as it buffers itself .....but we all learn from our mistakes
 

dyna mo humm

Active Member
I have used fabric pots and they work good but not everyone has the access to them. Why doesn't he just set up a areoponics grow that will work even better. My point is there's more then one way to grow and to say 5 gallon buckets don't work is just ignorant, I don't use them, I till the ground and add my supersoil. But I have a friend uses them every year and gets 5 pounds of his 6 plants and they grow 8-9 feet tall. They work fine. I'm not sure where you got the idea they don't?
5 gallon buckets suck for growing in soil. There are so many better options.
I have grow plants in 5 g buckets many times, several other people that I know have and at least one them still does. They all dump soil on my property and in almost every bucket there are ZERO roots in the bottom 1/3.

Look at a nursery pot, look at both the size,location and number of holes. Unless you're copying that formula you won't get proper drainage and air flow under and around the bottom. I cannot think of a single nursery pot size that equates to a 5 gallon bucket dimensions. The closest I can think of is an air pot.

Can you grow in a 5 gallon bucket? Yes, you can.
Are there better options? Yes, there are

This is exactly why I stay away from forums, good luck to OP
 

Indacouch

Well-Known Member
5 gallon buckets suck for growing in soil. There are so many better options.
I have grow plants in 5 g buckets many times, several other people that I know have and at least one them still does. They all dump soil on my property and in almost every bucket there are ZERO roots in the bottom 1/3.

Look at a nursery pot, look at both the size,location and number of holes. Unless you're copying that formula you won't get proper drainage and air flow under and around the bottom. I cannot think of a single nursery pot size that equates to a 5 gallon bucket dimensions. The closest I can think of is an air pot.

Can you grow in a 5 gallon bucket? Yes, you can.
Are there better options? Yes, there are

This is exactly why I stay away from forums, good luck to OP
Hugh I know lots of people who grow in 5 gallon buckets and have to cut the bottoms off and bury them in the ground because the plant gets so big and roots take up the whole bucket ......no need to stay away from forums just do your homework before you start telling people things won't work when they will just fine. That's all
 

todd86

Active Member
5 gallon buckets suck for growing in soil. There are so many better options.
I have grow plants in 5 g buckets many times, several other people that I know have and at least one them still does. They all dump soil on my property and in almost every bucket there are ZERO roots in the bottom 1/3.

Look at a nursery pot, look at both the size,location and number of holes. Unless you're copying that formula you won't get proper drainage and air flow under and around the bottom. I cannot think of a single nursery pot size that equates to a 5 gallon bucket dimensions. The closest I can think of is an air pot.

Can you grow in a 5 gallon bucket? Yes, you can.
Are there better options? Yes, there are

This is exactly why I stay away from forums, good luck to OP
Over potting , (potting a small plant into a huge bucket) is just as bad as under potting. (a root bound plant)

in-fact its worse

This is why we wait for a plants roots to fill a pot well before shifting it up a size in the Hort production industry.

Staged potting is how qualified horticulturalists like myself do it, in the industry.
 
Last edited:

thewanderingjack

Well-Known Member
Over potting , (potting a small plant into a huge bucket) is just as bad as under potting. (a root bound plant)

in-fact its worse
Could you explain that? I am fully on board with staged potting mind you, for various reasons, but I have grown plants from seed in the (5 g) pots they were going to mature in with no problems at all. I've also grown plants in tiny containers and switched to huge ones (as opposed to stepping up sm>med>lg). Maybe it's something about my other management (I keep my soil VERY loose, allowing watering to compact it... and I water very little).

I know people can have problems when they repot into soil with fresh compost... the compost ends up sludging, which is the actual problem. I also know that people tend to water the pot instead of the plant (meaning over water), which becomes a bigger problem in a bigger pot, as you get a lot of "standing water" (super-saturated soil) at the bottom 1/3... but it's not the size of the pot itself, it's watering and also soil consistency... you can grow a tiny plant in a huge pot with 0 problems if your soil drains fast enough. It's just something to take into account, which is easily done and remedied.

So yeah, I'm very curious.
 

todd86

Active Member
Could you explain that? I am fully on board with staged potting mind you, for various reasons, but I have grown plants from seed in the (5 g) pots they were going to mature in with no problems at all. I've also grown plants in tiny containers and switched to huge ones (as opposed to stepping up sm>med>lg). Maybe it's something about my other management (I keep my soil VERY loose, allowing watering to compact it... and I water very little).

I know people can have problems when they repot into soil with fresh compost... the compost ends up sludging, which is the actual problem. I also know that people tend to water the pot instead of the plant (meaning over water), which becomes a bigger problem in a bigger pot, as you get a lot of "standing water" (super-saturated soil) at the bottom 1/3... but it's not the size of the pot itself, it's watering and also soil consistency... you can grow a tiny plant in a huge pot with 0 problems if your soil drains fast enough. It's just something to take into account, which is easily done and remedied.

So yeah, I'm very curious.
In the horticulture industry time is money.

In the Cannabis industry time is money.

you can over pot if your a home gardener/hippy and grow weed in a old bath tub from seed if you like.

but in the horticulture industry, return for invested time is what matters i.e efficiency like every industry these days.

If we could go from seedling to a 20 litre pot we would do it, and no one would make smaller pot sizes ... less labor input less cost. would be nice.

But the reality is you will have to stage your pot size if not using hydroponics

And if your wondering about the science behind it....

Its all about root surface area .

if a root touches a wall the root tip terminates/stops and branches out. thus creating more roots faster.

Sooner it does that greater the exponential root growth curve.

The first roots are feeler gauges to their environment, once they determine that they will fill the area.
 
Last edited:

thewanderingjack

Well-Known Member
In the horticulture industry time is money.

In the Cannabis industry time is money.

you can over pot if your a home gardener/hippy and grow weed in a old bath tub from seed if you like.

but in the horticulture industry, return for invested time is what matters i.e efficiency like every industry these days.

If we could go from seedling to a 20 litre pot we would do it, and no one would make smaller pot sizes ... less labor input less cost. would be nice.

But the reality is you will have to stage your pot size if not using hydroponics
Partially agree... yes the whole time/money issue... not sure how/why that was brought up... I know a lot of people here are in the pot business... but that's not everyone... I grow for myself... and even with low yields I am saving huge amounts of money growing myself (it's $150-200 an OZ to buy around me)... I consider my grow very low yielding (6 plants, about half an OZ each on them right now @ 6 weeks veg/4 weeks flower)... that'd be 3 OZ @ $450-600... I did it for ~200 (mostly in reusable items, like lights)... and that was doing it (what I consider) the lazy way, and counting my time into the cost.

Of course, professionally I'd be going for the greatest possible yields with the least possible input, i.e.: the greatest return... even as a personal grower I am making small improvements towards that direction, I mean, who doesn't?... again, not sure how this relates to pot sizing?

Like I said, I don't always repot. I do often go from seedling to 20 litre buckets (i.e. 5 gal pots)... I have no issues.

In the industry I think it is as much a matter of convenience:

Every try selling a seedling/young plant in the pot they mature in? It'd be pretty ridiculous. As a customer I don't usually want to buy that much of a pot and the soil in it, mainly because I have to transport it home... even if it did save me having to ever repot that plant... this is especially true since I buy more than one plant at a time (how much room would a dozen tomatoes take up?!). But I do buy seedlings and repot straight into a 5 gl (20 ltr) pot all the time.

Nurseries tend to use/reuse bulk soil, as well as general watering tools (sprinklers) and schedules. If all the soil has equal permeability and your watering large swaths of usually mixed plants... it makes more sense to pot in appropriately sized container for the size of the plant rather than making sure the soil drains properly for the size of the pot you use, which would mean more attention given to each pot/plant. It allows you to water a ton of plants and not worry about individual ones being over watered.

I am sure horticultural practices could be changed to work the other way, and maybe going straight into large pots would be more efficient and economical... for the grower... but since customer convenience plays a huge part, I don't think we can really say... Or rather, I guess that's my question... other than (the VERY avoidable "over watering" issue) what problems are caused by over potting?

So yeah... i suppose if you're doing a very large grow and would rather spend more time replanting than ensuring proper drainage and/or watering less (incrementally more), than staging is best.

For me, doing a small grow... I find it more convenient and efficient to replant once... from seedling trays (or cups... or whatever I happen to be sprouting in), right into the final pot. Even using bagged soil mix this works for me. I simply water less, and only water near the plant stem when they're small and increase that as they grow. I've even used a sprinkler system for this... kept it near the plant the whole time, just increased the water as they grew.

btw: "you can over pot if your a home gardener/hippy and grow weed in a old bath tub from seed if you like." SIlly, or offensive? I'll say ridiculous... :-P
 
Last edited:

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
So I'm thinking I both flowered too early and let the temperature get way too high. I've fixed the temp problem with ventilation and what not. I guess next grow let them get bigger first! Thanks a lot guys appreciate the love
Yeah the temp problem can fuck shit up, mainly if you let the root zone get too hot over a long period of time and it evaporates too much water out the medium faster then the plant can drink it.

Not really sure whats going on here because it looks way to late for a troubleshoot.
One things for sure, that plant looks very hungry for nitrogen and possibly mag and other crap but you need to post up what you've fed, how much you've fed and when you've fed before jumping to conclusions. Not enough nitrogen in flower or too much early bloom will also cause problems. Scrapping nitrogen too early and just using p/k is almost a sure way to loose all your leaves before harvest. You said you only plucked the yellow leaves? Did the bottom nugs yellow out also? where did they go?
 

Joshypooh34

Member
Yeah the temp problem can fuck shit up, mainly if you let the root zone get too hot over a long period of time and it evaporates too much water out the medium faster then the plant can drink it.

Not really sure whats going on here because it looks way to late for a troubleshoot.
One things for sure, that plant looks very hungry for nitrogen and possibly mag and other crap but you need to post up what you've fed, how much you've fed and when you've fed before jumping to conclusions. Not enough nitrogen in flower or too much early bloom will also cause problems. Scrapping nitrogen too early and just using p/k is almost a sure way to loose all your leaves before harvest. You said you only plucked the yellow leaves? Did the bottom nugs yellow out also? where did they go?
No bottom nugs ever grew! Once I transitioned to bloom I was giving half doses of flora bloom 0-5-4 with every other watering (I water them about 3 times a week) and when the yellowing got bad I added half doses of flora micro 5-0-1, but stopped after I read that too much nitrogen during flowering can fuck things up.
 

haight

Well-Known Member
So I'm thinking I both flowered too early and let the temperature get way too high. I've fixed the temp problem with ventilation and what not. I guess next grow let them get bigger first! Thanks a lot guys appreciate the love
The high temp could certainly be an issue. Also the watering. If you don't have drainage holes, make them, set the buckets in a saucer and start watering from the bottom. I find after four weeks that they do better and get bigger if you water heavy. Just do it from the bottom.
Hard to flower too early. It won't effect bud size. It may effect overall plant final size.
The strain also can be an issue. For fat buds grow something like Humboldt's Green Crack
 

haight

Well-Known Member
Last but not least, how far away is the light source. The closer the better as long as it's not burning the plant.
 

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
No bottom nugs ever grew! Once I transitioned to bloom I was giving half doses of flora bloom 0-5-4 with every other watering (I water them about 3 times a week) and when the yellowing got bad I added half doses of flora micro 5-0-1, but stopped after I read that too much nitrogen during flowering can fuck things up.
@Roobarb is giving you a hint.
 
Top