Is it possible to overextract?

[robbbbyf]

I followed some instructions from a buddies dad, and soaked around 1/4 pound of nice Headband strain trim in Everclear for 24 hours, stirring occasionally. I then strained it through two coffee filters, then cooked it off in rice cooker until bubbling stopped. Got about 35g of oil. But I thought it would be stronger. I mean it's pretty strong, just not knock you on your ass strong like some oil i've tried. Did I just get greedy, what's the proper time in Everclear? Stir, no stir? Thanks in advance for any quick tips! I'll be researching in the meantime.

PS Is there a rough range of weight people on average get out of nice trim? Or does vary a lot?

 

[Fadedawg]

Yes you can over extract with Everclear, and it is best done at subzero temperatures. See https://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/

Define "nice trim?" ~10/15%....................

 

[robbbbyf]

Yes you can over extract with Everclear, and it is best done at subzero temperatures. See https://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/

Define "nice trim?" ~10/15%....................

Thanks for the info. that link is very helpful. It seems they are wanting to produce a VERY pure oil, which is great, but maybe I don't need mine quite that pure. Still I will try to incorporate some of these techniques, like the freezing aspect and only two washes, and shorter.

I'm not sure what % number you are asking me to define? Percentage of oil to total material weight?

 

[Fadedawg]

Thanks for the info. that link is very helpful. It seems they are wanting to produce a VERY pure oil, which is great, but maybe I don't need mine quite that pure. Still I will try to incorporate some of these techniques, like the freezing aspect and only two washes, and shorter.

I'm not sure what % number you are asking me to define? Percentage of oil to total material weight?

Just noting that "nice trim" means different things to different folks.

 

[DemonTrich]

I always do a quick 2min at most soak then strain. If I do longer I get more green. To rid the green tint place jar under a t8 6500k lamp over night, and the green chlorophyll will be gone. This is a tried and proven method to rid excess chlorophyll from extracts. Iso or ethanol alike.

 

[Fadedawg]

I always do a quick 2min at most soak then strain. If I do longer I get more green. To rid the green tint place jar under a t8 6500k lamp over night, and the green chlorophyll will be gone. This is a tried and proven method to rid excess chlorophyll from extracts. Iso or ethanol alike.

Yup, that works for color, but still better to avoid the chlorophyll pickup in the first place, by extracting very cold. https://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/

UV bleaching breaks down the chlorophyll into its next decomposition constituents, leaving the the solution amber, rather than green, but still leaves the harsh constituents behind and the UV breaks down the terpenes, including the (phenolic terpenoid) cannabinoids, as well.

 

[BobCajun]

The only way to actually remove the chlorophyll is with carbon. Chlorophyll is particularly absorbable by carbon, more than say cannabinoids. I tried some fairly large granules from a water filter I had, just putting a little in and stirring, and it didn't change anything, but recently I read that you have to powder the carbon first by crushing it up. Carbon is what they use when extracting THC in chemistry labs for studies, to remove color, and they seem to still get high yields so apparently the cannabinoids don't get absorbed to any great degree. I'll get some and try it on my next run, it'll be a while yet though. Some say you should make a column of the carbon and run the extract through it. Maybe that works better. I guess you would want to rinse the carbon with fresh solvent to get all the cannabinoids that may be left on it.

About the time, if you leave it to soak overnight, or even a few hours, more of the bad leaf oil will get dissolved. You just want the resin on the surfaces to be dissolved, not the interior oil with all the chlorophyll. That's why you don't grind it and you don't soak for more than a few minutes. Basically you just mix it around to circulate the solvent through it and dissolve the outer resin. Also best to use solvent with no water in it. Everclear has some water content. I suggest 99% isopropanol instead, if you can get it.

 

[In Shape Vet]

iso still pulls allot of junk. for a few bucks more but allot less than bho, you can use hexane. youll get a much cleaner extract. you can then purge the hex with iso.

its flammable so use with caution.

what are you using this for?

to kick back with buddies and take several dabs, iso is fine. less trouble and fast.

for more pure, strong and single dabs or for pen vape, you can go through the extra trouble and bho or hex.

 

[DemonTrich]

So you winterize hexane with is

 

[BobCajun]

Hexane is pretty toxic stuff actually. I would avoid it if possible. Another solvent that doesn't mix with water is ethyl acetate. It's a very good solvent for plant resins in fact and has low toxicity, being simply an ester of ethyl alcohol. It's sometimes used as non-acetone nail polish remover. It's probably the all around best solvent for weed extracts. Just not that easy to find and tends to be costly. I would use it myself if I could source it locally, but the only local source is way overpriced. However, still considerably less costly than high purity butane. If you recycled the ethyl acetate with a distiller it would be worth it. It's the premium weed solvent really, when you research about solvents. Surprised nobody used it yet.

 

[Fadedawg]

The only way to actually remove the chlorophyll is with carbon. Chlorophyll is particularly absorbable by carbon, more than say cannabinoids. I tried some fairly large granules from a water filter I had, just putting a little in and stirring, and it didn't change anything, but recently I read that you have to powder the carbon first by crushing it up. Carbon is what they use when extracting THC in chemistry labs for studies, to remove color, and they seem to still get high yields so apparently the cannabinoids don't get absorbed to any great degree. I'll get some and try it on my next run, it'll be a while yet though. Some say you should make a column of the carbon and run the extract through it. Maybe that works better. I guess you would want to rinse the carbon with fresh solvent to get all the cannabinoids that may be left on it.

About the time, if you leave it to soak overnight, or even a few hours, more of the bad leaf oil will get dissolved. You just want the resin on the surfaces to be dissolved, not the interior oil with all the chlorophyll. That's why you don't grind it and you don't soak for more than a few minutes. Basically you just mix it around to circulate the solvent through it and dissolve the outer resin. Also best to use solvent with no water in it. Everclear has some water content. I suggest 99% isopropanol instead, if you can get it.

You lose a lot of everything when you filter with charcoal and filtration requirements are stiff.

For instance, the last run of crap that I tried to salvage by charcoal filtering, started with a quart and ended with a pint, which I had to filter to 0.2 microns to get out all of the black specks.

 

[Fadedawg]

What we would like to do, is extract the C-10 through C-22 sized molecules and leave behind the C-30 chlorophyll, anthro cyanin pigments, and plant waxes.

You extract differently with different solvents to achieve those ends. Polar solvents (dielectric index above 15) like alcohols are typically miscible in water and extract polar elements like chlorophyll. Chlorophyll is actually not soluble in water, but is polar due to the magnesium atom on one end, and can form micelles that are transported by water.

They are also held in place by Water Soluble Chlorophyll-binding Protein (WSCP), which can be washed away by water, liberating the chlorophyll to travel in micelles.

Anthro cyanin plant pigments are also a glucoside (plant sugar), and mildly polar due to the oxygen molecule in the middle, while plant waxes are of low polarity.

Sooo, a long soak at room temperature with alcohol, will extract lots of everything but the non polar plant waxes, including any water and water solubles present.

A long soak at room temperature in a non polar solvent like n-Butane (simple alkane), will mostly ignore the polar chlorophyll, but can absorb up to 32 ml/L water, and along with it some water solubles and chlorophyll. It will also extract copious amounts of the non polar plant waxes, as well as the anthro cyanins.

With both solvent classes, you can reduce the pickup of water, water solubles, and the C-30 molecules by dropping the temperature below the freezing point of water, so that the water is tied up as ice, freezing into place the water soluble chlorophyll binding proteins, and reducing the solubility of all of the molecules.

It reduces the solubility of the heavier molecules, more than the lighter molecules, so it slows down C-30 extraction enough to minimize their extraction.

 

[Fadedawg]

Hexane is pretty toxic stuff actually. I would avoid it if possible. Another solvent that doesn't mix with water is ethyl acetate. It's a very good solvent for plant resins in fact and has low toxicity, being simply an ester of ethyl alcohol. It's sometimes used as non-acetone nail polish remover. It's probably the all around best solvent for weed extracts. Just not that easy to find and tends to be costly. I would use it myself if I could source it locally, but the only local source is way overpriced. However, still considerably less costly than high purity butane. If you recycled the ethyl acetate with a distiller it would be worth it. It's the premium weed solvent really, when you research about solvents. Surprised nobody used it yet.

It is the 2.5 Hexane Dione that our liver creates from Hexane that is a carcinogen. It does the same thing with Heptane.

I use either minimally and purge until none is detected by the GC.

I prefer to use alkanes with lower boiling points like butane and propane, because they are easier to purge, while retaining the C-10 and C-15 sized molecules.

They also don't form 2.5 Diones.

 

[BobCajun]

Actually I just found out that a product called Klean-Strip MEK Substitute is ethyl acetate. Not the normal Klean-Strip MEK

You lose a lot of everything when you filter with charcoal and filtration requirements are stiff.

For instance, the last run of crap that I tried to salvage by charcoal filtering, started with a quart and ended with a pint, which I had to filter to 0.2 microns to get out all of the black specks.

I think the way you have to do it is to keep adding carbon until there's just enough to absorb all the chlorophyll but no extra. I'll do some experimenting when an extraction run comes up.

It's also possible to precipitate the chlorophyll by adding phosphoric acid, like they do with vegetable oils, but then how could you neutralize the acid without turning the THCA into the salt of whatever alkali you used to neutralize it? That's what makes the method impractical.

Maybe the light method would work okay. Don't know whether it would reduce the harshness but at least it would remove the green color. It would be similar to sun curing weed, where they lay it out in the sun for several hours. Maybe blue light won't degrade the cannabinoids like UV.

 

[In Shape Vet]

anyone here ever cook with canola oil? hexane was most likely used to make that product at your local grocery store.

hexane is used in the food industry to process oils. Yes if used improperly it can be poisonous. the key thing being improperly.

there are tutorials out there, and i would recommend proper research be done to fully understand the concepts. Im not going to explain it all. i however will let you know there are other ways out there that can be used for extraction. Its up to you now that your aware of it, to look into it at your leisure if your interested.

To add to the idea in regards to the green color. You can research " column chromatography " which can be used to do this without damaging the product.

These types of set ups and methods may not be the most economical and possibly dangerous to the avg joe just wanting to toke once in a while. Even if you dont do any of the things iv mentioned, they do make for an interesting read if youd like to learn about something new.

 

[BobCajun]

anyone here ever cook with canola oil? hexane was most likely used to make that product at your local grocery store.

hexane is used in the food industry to process oils. Yes if used improperly it can be poisonous. the key thing being improperly.

there are tutorials out there, and i would recommend proper research be done to fully understand the concepts. Im not going to explain it all. i however will let you know there are other ways out there that can be used for extraction. Its up to you now that your aware of it, to look into it at your leisure if your interested.

To add to the idea in regards to the green color. You can research " column chromatography " which can be used to do this without damaging the product.

These types of set ups and methods may not be the most economical and possibly dangerous to the avg joe just wanting to toke once in a while. Even if you dont do any of the things iv mentioned, they do make for an interesting read if youd like to learn about something new.

Yeah I know they use hexane for plant extracts. Just saying that the person making the extract is going to breathe those vapors in at some point, it's pretty much unavoidable. I think ethyl acetate would be the safest to work with. Granted, anyone who pumps their own gasoline at a self-serve would breathe in more toxic vapors, including known carcinogen benzene.

 

[In Shape Vet]

Ill say some things should just be attempted by those with the appropriate aptitude and confidence which is why im not giving a " how to " since iv already provided the topics of research.