EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

[ttystikk]

Let's take what's going on right now for example:

Moderator: "Mr. Sanders, African American voters are concerned with the perceived or real (for arguments sake) threat against young people by the police in America. As President, what steps would you be willing to take to ease the fears of the African American community?"

Bernie Sanders: "I would create more job opportunities in the inner cities and get young people back to work."

Yeah. Fine as far as it goes, but missing the point.

 

[bearkat42]

Yeah. Fine as far as it goes, but missing the point.

Exactly

 

[Padawanbater2]

Let's take what's going on right now for example:

Moderator: "Mr. Sanders, African American voters are concerned with the perceived or real (for arguments sake) threat against young people by the police in America. As President, what steps would you be willing to take to ease the fears of the African American community?"

Bernie Sanders: "I would create more job opportunities in the inner cities and get young people back to work."

Yeah, you already said you thought he stumbled on the racial answers. I'm asking you what could he have said that would make you satisfied?

I hear you, but if you aren't black, with all respect, how would you know?

From my observation, socioeconomic status a much better indicator of the causes of racial tension in this country. This is why poor minorities experience blatant racism much more frequently than well off or rich minorities. This is on of the reasons why the south is generally considered more racist than in any other part of the country; they're poorer. It's ingrained in the culture and in the community and this is equally true for white people. If you're poor, you're much more likely to be racist than if you're not. This is not to say that rich minorities or white people don't experience or perpetuate racism.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I think it's pretty clear Sanders believes that the root causes of racism also stem from socioeconomic issues, which would make sense considering the answer he gave to that question. So it's not like he's totally off base with that answer, it was relevant to the question he was asked.

 

[abandonconflict]

 

[bearkat42]

I think it's pretty clear Sanders believes that the root causes of racism also stem from socioeconomic issues, which would make sense considering the answer he gave to that question. So it's not like he's totally off base with that answer, it was relevant to the question he was asked.

That wasn't an answer that Sanders gave (that I'm aware of). That was just an example of something that I thought that he may say if that question was posed to him. While you say that he's not totally off base with that answer, I say to me it sounds a bit like he's blaming the the perceived victims. How is the answer that I just presented ultimately any different than saying "If these young people had jobs, the police wouldn't violate them."

 

[bearkat42]

Yeah, you already said you thought he stumbled on the racial answers. I'm asking you what could he have said that would make you satisfied?

It may have helped to actually say something about the police. A fucking job is not the answer to all of the world's problems.
Philando Castile had a job, but I'm not sure the police asked before they executed him. Maybe Bernie would require the police to ask that question before using lethal force.

From my observation, socioeconomic status a much better indicator of the causes of racial tension in this country. This is why poor minorities experience blatant racism much more frequently than well off or rich minorities. This is on of the reasons why the south is generally considered more racist than in any other part of the country; they're poorer. It's ingrained in the culture and in the community and this is equally true for white people. If you're poor, you're much more likely to be racist than if you're not. This is not to say that rich minorities or white people don't experience or perpetuate racism.

"If you want to stop experiencing racism, just stop being poor."

 

[Capt. Stickyfingers]

That wasn't an answer that Sanders gave (that I'm aware of). That was just an example of something that I thought that he may say if that question was posed to him. While you say that he's not totally off base with that answer, I say to me it sounds a bit like he's blaming the the perceived victims. How is the answer that I just presented ultimately any different than saying "If these young people had jobs, the police wouldn't violate them."

So you totally made that shit up, yet at first presented it as a legitimate quote and now you're trying to use it as a legitimate argument?

 

[bearkat42]

So you totally made that shit up, yet at first presented it as a legitimate quote and now you're trying to use it as a legitimate argument?

Yep, I posted an example of something that I thought that He'd say if the question was posed to him. If you've paid any attention at all to his campaign, you'd realize that it falls right in line with his typical responses to AA voter concerns.

 

[schuylaar]

This is where you and I can agree.

This also demonstrates the benefit of staying engaged and continuing to press for your issues.

Whether you throw your vote away, vote Green Party or whatever, there will be no changes of this kind if the left disengages from the Democratic party.

Hillary is a right wing Democrat but she also follows the vote. Voting a Democratic Congress to replace the tea baggers now gumming up the works while continuing to support Sanders is one way to block Hillary from continuing the rightward march of this country.

There is a lot of good in the Green Party's positions. If you can't stick with the Democrats then consider the Green Party. If they can get past the marginal numbers they currently draw, again, they will be in the position gain seats in Congress. I'd like that as much as anything else.

Sanders did not sell out. He's working within the system and did more than anybody else to keep important issues in the national debate.

Precisely.

Had the Green Party been there they would've had me along with the 13M who voted for Bernie.

Get your shit together Green!

 

[Capt. Stickyfingers]

Yep, I posted an example of something that I thought that He say if the question was posed to him. If you've paid any attention at all to his campaign, you'd realize that it falls right in line with his typical responses to AA voter concerns.

It doesn't matter if I've paid attention to his campaign. Quoting someone based a hypothetical question and how you think they would respond doesn't hold any water.

 

[bearkat42]

It doesn't matter if I've paid attention to his campaign. Quoting someone based a hypothetical question and how you think they would respond doesn't hold any water.

OK

 

[schuylaar]

We need to stand on our own two feet not be handed shit.

If you have Netflix find the documentary about poverty I forget the name but it shows just how bad giving people free stuff is and shows just why Haitians can't stand on their own two feet.

You give give give nobody will work work work they can farm in Haiti they can farm in Ethiopia but the farmers can not compete with the free rice nobody buys local when you get given shit for free.

These people are dependent on free shit.

You can take any subject make a documentary and deliver the message you wish so I don't buy the Haitian Ethiopian connect to 'free shit'

I live in south Florida where the Haitian community is predominant in our country they are into opportunity just like we are..go to school, have businesses like everyone else when ALLOWED the opportunity.

Human beings as a whole wish to be an engaged part of society.

Healthy, educated constituency fares better than not for so many reasons.

We cannot put a price tag or make people choose between the two or like many, no choice..both are pipe dreams when you are making minimum wage.

 

[bluntmassa1]

Taxes are not the reason people can't pay for education. Poor people pay very little to no income taxes, the problem is that education and healthcare is so expensive that only upper middle-class and upper-class people can afford it. It is cheaper everywhere on Earth that has universal healthcare than in America.

My uncle worked and went to college at the same time has student loans he is still paying off at least last I knew poor people can go to college.

I know immigrants that have worked and gone to college in America. We give well nobody will work for it.

 

[bluntmassa1]

You can take any subject make a documentary and deliver the message you wish so I don't buy the Haitian Ethiopian connect to 'free shit'

I live in south Florida where the Haitian community is predominant in our country they are into opportunity just like we are..go to school, have businesses like everyone else when GIVEN the opportunity.

Human beings as a whole wish to be an engaged part of society.

Healthy, educated constituency fares better than not for so many reasons.

We cannot put a price tag or make people choose between the two or like many, no choice..both are pipe dreams when you are making minimum wage.

Work for more than minimum wage it's not hard I have nothing but a GED my father died when I was 16 and mother is on disability for MS.

I came up from nothing you can too just use your head.

 

[Padawanbater2]

That wasn't an answer that Sanders gave (that I'm aware of). That was just an example of something that I thought that he may say if that question was posed to him.

You should make that clear in the original post

While you say that he's not totally off base with that answer, I say to me it sounds a bit like he's blaming the the perceived victims. How is the answer that I just presented ultimately any different than saying "If these young people had jobs, the police wouldn't violate them."

"I would create jobs in inner cities" to you is blaming the victims?

WTF?

He's simply saying that with more jobs with higher wages, minorities would not be subject to living in abject poverty or in ghetto's like they have been in the past. They wouldn't be subject to 'stop and frisk', they would be viewed by law enforcement as law abiding citizens. When they're broke and desperate, just like anyone of any color, they will resort to desperate measures. It has nothing to do with skin color.

It may have helped to actually say something about the police. A fucking job is not the answer to all of the world's problems.

Odd you don't hold Clinton to the same standard..

The one and only thing that will help minorities in regards to police involvement is ending the war on drugs, something Sanders wholeheartedly supports. Clinton simply wants to "end the era of mass incarceration" without ending the drug war. @bearkat42 , please explain to me how she plans on accomplishing that and why you would support her position over Sanders?

Philando Castile had a job, but I'm not sure the police asked before they executed him. Maybe Bernie would require the police to ask that question before using lethal force.

How socioeconomic issues come into play during an obviously racist police traffic stop are beyond me, but I would love for you to explain how any of that is relevant to this particular case. Or were you just grasping at straws?

What about any of these people?

"If you want to stop experiencing racism, just stop being poor."

Being poor has A LOT to do with racism in America. If you think it's just white guys being assholes all around, you're ignorant. I'm white, I'm not the least bit racist, so how does your formula account for people like me? Being white does not automatically make you racist.

 

[bluntmassa1]

You can take any subject make a documentary and deliver the message you wish so I don't buy the Haitian Ethiopian connect to 'free shit'

I live in south Florida where the Haitian community is predominant in our country they are into opportunity just like we are..go to school, have businesses like everyone else when GIVEN the opportunity.

Human beings as a whole wish to be an engaged part of society.

Healthy, educated constituency fares better than not for so many reasons.

We cannot put a price tag or make people choose between the two or like many, no choice..both are pipe dreams when you are making minimum wage.

Plus why are you crying about minimum wage? Do you have any idea what people live like in other countries it makes me sick. Over a billion people live on less than $1 a day and you want $15 for an hour to flip burgers?? That is fucking greedy. IMHO

 

[Padawanbater2]

My uncle worked and went to college at the same time has student loans he is still paying off at least last I knew poor people can go to college.

I know immigrants that have worked and gone to college in America. We give well nobody will work for it.

Go do the math for yourself, your uncles time spent in college was much different than today

 

[Padawanbater2]

Plus why are you crying about minimum wage? Do you have any idea what people live like in other countries it makes me sick. Over a billion people live on less than $1 a day and you want $15 for an hour to flip burgers?? That is fucking greedy. IMHO

Do you think Americans working full time should be earning slave wages just because somebody in Bangladesh does?

What the fuck kind of idiotic logic is that?

We should be trying to RAISE the wages of workers in Bangladesh, not LOWER the wages Americans make.

The fuck is wrong with you?

 

[bluntmassa1]

Go do the math for yourself, your uncles time spent in college was much different than today

What about the Thai woman I know? She has been in the country for about 6 years started as a nanny moved on to a waitress got the LNA license worked in healthcare took more school now a Registered Nurse and makes over $50k a year...

It can be done you just need to work for it.