Pruning in Flower Cycle

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
It actually has a bunch to do with it,

How Is Gene Expression Increased or Decreased in Response to Environmental Change?
In prokaryotes, regulatory proteins are often controlled by nutrient availability. This allows organisms such as bacteria to rapidly adjust their transcription patterns in response to environmental conditions. In addition, regulatory sites on prokaryotic DNA are typically located close to transcription promoter sites — and this plays an important part in gene expression.
For an example of how this works, imagine a bacterium with a surplus of amino acids that signal the turning "on" of some genes and the turning "off" of others. In this particular example, cells might want to turn "on" genes for proteins that metabolize amino acids and turn "off" genes for proteins that synthesize amino acids. Some of these amino acids would bind to positive regulatory proteins called activators. Activator proteins bind to regulatory sites on DNA nearby to promoter regions that act as on/off switches. This binding facilitates RNA polymerase activity and transcription of nearby genes. At the same time, however, other amino acids would bind to negative regulatory proteins called repressors, which in turn bind to regulatory sites in the DNA that effectively block RNA polymerase binding.

I have spent years figuring out what triggers what response in these plants, hell I even wrote a book about it 8)
TA DA! lol.
 

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
It actually has a bunch to do with it,

How Is Gene Expression Increased or Decreased in Response to Environmental Change?
In prokaryotes, regulatory proteins are often controlled by nutrient availability. This allows organisms such as bacteria to rapidly adjust their transcription patterns in response to environmental conditions. In addition, regulatory sites on prokaryotic DNA are typically located close to transcription promoter sites — and this plays an important part in gene expression.
For an example of how this works, imagine a bacterium with a surplus of amino acids that signal the turning "on" of some genes and the turning "off" of others. In this particular example, cells might want to turn "on" genes for proteins that metabolize amino acids and turn "off" genes for proteins that synthesize amino acids. Some of these amino acids would bind to positive regulatory proteins called activators. Activator proteins bind to regulatory sites on DNA nearby to promoter regions that act as on/off switches. This binding facilitates RNA polymerase activity and transcription of nearby genes. At the same time, however, other amino acids would bind to negative regulatory proteins called repressors, which in turn bind to regulatory sites in the DNA that effectively block RNA polymerase binding.

I have spent years figuring out what triggers what response in these plants, hell I even wrote a book about it 8)
Thanks! I agree. Its why my plants turn different colors and smell when i flower outdoor. Environmental factors change how the plant eats,metabolism speed ect but the best one of all is the hardiness of a plant when it loves its environment.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
It actually has a bunch to do with it,

How Is Gene Expression Increased or Decreased in Response to Environmental Change?
In prokaryotes, regulatory proteins are often controlled by nutrient availability. This allows organisms such as bacteria to rapidly adjust their transcription patterns in response to environmental conditions. In addition, regulatory sites on prokaryotic DNA are typically located close to transcription promoter sites — and this plays an important part in gene expression.
For an example of how this works, imagine a bacterium with a surplus of amino acids that signal the turning "on" of some genes and the turning "off" of others. In this particular example, cells might want to turn "on" genes for proteins that metabolize amino acids and turn "off" genes for proteins that synthesize amino acids. Some of these amino acids would bind to positive regulatory proteins called activators. Activator proteins bind to regulatory sites on DNA nearby to promoter regions that act as on/off switches. This binding facilitates RNA polymerase activity and transcription of nearby genes. At the same time, however, other amino acids would bind to negative regulatory proteins called repressors, which in turn bind to regulatory sites in the DNA that effectively block RNA polymerase binding.

I have spent years figuring out what triggers what response in these plants, hell I even wrote a book about it 8)
Not sure if that actually proves anything re more potency by growing a plant in DWC versus another method which is what was said
 

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
Alright so what's going on? Lol defoliation is one of the best tricks to pull more weight just gotta know when and how hard but it does improve yield I have light on the ground of my grow room every time in flower with plants crammed together get buds all the way to pot that aren't airy and larf bullshit
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
^^^ well I do keep trying it but just can't get it to work lol. Not giving up mind you and periodically get the urge to rape the poor girl of her leaves lol.
 

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Alright so what's going on? Lol defoliation is one of the best tricks to pull more weight just gotta know when and how hard but it does improve yield I have light on the ground of my grow room every time in flower with plants crammed together get buds all the way to pot that aren't airy and larf bullshit
;)

I have a question for you. Do all hybrids of Afgan Kush naturally foxtail some? I am currently growing a strain ive never grown before and really was lucky to have gotten it because you cant get seeds anymore and there were never fem seeds available. Its called Mr. Burns and its e32 Trainwreck x Afgan Kush. Anyway I have my Super HPS high above my plant but its still foxtailing. It is not long, lanky, or airy. The foxtailing is staying short and compact but foxtailing non the less. Is this just the Kush genes?
 

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
IMG_20160528_232453458.jpg
^^^ well I do keep trying it but just can't get it to work lol. Not giving up mind you and periodically get the urge to rape the poor girl of her leaves lol.
So big times to hit them are mid week 1 in flower and mid-end week 4. When I say hard I mean on main stalks strip all water leaves below third node and all but top on side branches the plant at that point will bush like a mother fucker for 3 weeks. After week 4 plant won't replace big water leaves they focus on buds so u strip one more time same method. Works great here's so og kush this is the lightest I've gone in a while lol it was last run and I as lazy you can still see light on the ground tho Ill never go that lazy
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
View attachment 3726033
So big times to hit them are mid week 1 in flower and mid-end week 4. When I say hard I mean on main stalks strip all water leaves below third node and all but top on side branches the plant at that point will bush like a mother fucker for 3 weeks. After week 4 plant won't replace big water leaves they focus on buds so u strip one more time same method. Works great here's so og kush this is the lightest I've gone in a while lol it was last run and I as lazy you can still see light on the ground tho Ill never go that lazy
I've got a few outside right now and could probably sacrifice one in the name of science so how would I do that without a defined flowering start?
 

rzza

Well-Known Member
I'm currently doing a side by side and after 7 days I see a noticeable difference in that the plant that I removed all the water leaves has larger buds than the two that I removed only a very few leaves. The surprising thing to me is that the buds in which are larger, they are not the small popcorn buds that were once shaded by leaves, it's actually all the main buds. I was not expecting that to be the result. I did the leaf hacking on day 30 of flower and tody is day 37.
 

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
I'm currently doing a side by side and after 7 days I see a noticeable difference in that the plant that I removed all the water leaves has larger buds than the two that I removed only a very few leaves. The surprising thing to me is that the buds in which are larger, they are not the small popcorn buds that were once shaded by leaves, it's actually all the main buds. I was not expecting that to be the result. I did the leaf hacking on day 30 of flower and tody is day 37.
Its because even though sun leaves collect light in veg they still require energy from the plant to live. By weeks 3-4 flower the production by these sun leaves for the plant is under 50%. Therefore the large sun leaves are using more energy at that point than they are providing so by removing them the plant reverts that gain of energy into the buds. Same concept as topping/pinching, the plant pushes that energy back into other parts of the plant. If you want to get scientific its the hormone auxin that makes this possible. Yet I was verbally assulted for pointing out this fact. Plants really only use those large sun leaves for vegetation, its the smaller secondary sun leaves and bud/sugar leaves the plant uses to collect energy and make food for bud production.
 

rzza

Well-Known Member
Its because even though sun leaves collect light in veg they still require energy from the plant to live. By weeks 3-4 flower the production by these sun leaves for the plant is under 50%. Therefore the large sun leaves are using more energy at that point than they are providing so by removing them the plant reverts that gain of energy into the buds. Same concept as topping/pinching, the plant pushes that energy back into other parts of the plant. If you want to get scientific its the hormone auxin that makes this possible. Yet I was verbally assulted for pointing out this fact. Plants really only use those large sun leaves for vegetation, its the smaller secondary sun leaves and bud/sugar leaves the plant uses to collect energy and make food for bud production.
Thanks for confirming that. Its how my mind made sense of it pretty much.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Its because even though sun leaves collect light in veg they still require energy from the plant to live. By weeks 3-4 flower the production by these sun leaves for the plant is under 50%. Therefore the large sun leaves are using more energy at that point than they are providing so by removing them the plant reverts that gain of energy into the buds. Same concept as topping/pinching, the plant pushes that energy back into other parts of the plant. If you want to get scientific its the hormone auxin that makes this possible. Yet I was verbally assulted for pointing out this fact. Plants really only use those large sun leaves for vegetation, its the smaller secondary sun leaves and bud/sugar leaves the plant uses to collect energy and make food for bud production.
The scientific studies also go on to state that if you prune a leaf of a flowering plant before it has taken all stored nutrients out then you reduce the plants growth by a slight amount. These nutrients can be more easily translocated to sinks nearer the source than from areas futher away and under higher demand from newer growth. This is the basic source to sink data collated from most scientific studies on the topic.
 

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
The scientific studies also go on to state that if you prune a leaf of a flowering plant before it has taken all stored nutrients out then you reduce the plants growth by a slight amount. These nutrients can be more easily translocated to sinks nearer the source than from areas futher away and under higher demand from newer growth. This is the basic source to sink data collated from most scientific studies on the topic.
The reason leaves shouldnt be removed until weeks 3-4 of flower and not remove every fan leaf. Just remove the largest first set the plant produces durring veg. A few secondary fan leaves can be removed weeks 6-7 to allow even more light and air in for the finishing weeks.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
The reason leaves shouldnt be removed until weeks 3-4 of flower and not remove every fan leaf. Just remove the largest first set the plant produces durring veg. A few secondary fan leaves can be removed weeks 6-7 to allow even more light and air in for the finishing weeks.
If you need more light and air indoors then get a bigger fan, outdoors you might have a point. If you think removing fan leaves concentrates growth on bud then im not sure, thought thats what the hundreds and thousonds of sugar leaves did.

If i thought it would give me bigger buds id do it but ive never seen that. Its just one of them things.
 

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
If you need more light and air indoors then get a bigger fan, outdoors you might have a point. If you think removing fan leaves concentrates growth on bud then im not sure, thought thats what the hundreds and thousonds of sugar leaves did.

If i thought it would give me bigger buds id do it but ive never seen that. Its just one of them things.
Ive personally done it and seen it but I dont do it all the time because I get light penetration all the way to the top of the bucket/hydroton unless a strain is extremely thick and even then I will usually thin the vegetation out a week or two before I flip. I'm just stating from experience defoliation does work if its done at the right time and in the right way. I think people that remove every single fan leaf soon as they get a few buds are making a big mistake.
 

Afgan King

Well-Known Member
I'm currently doing a side by side and after 7 days I see a noticeable difference in that the plant that I removed all the water leaves has larger buds than the two that I removed only a very few leaves. The surprising thing to me is that the buds in which are larger, they are not the small popcorn buds that were once shaded by leaves, it's actually all the main buds. I was not expecting that to be the result. I did the leaf hacking on day 30 of flower and tody is day 37.
Wouldn't doubt it lol
Its because even though sun leaves collect light in veg they still require energy from the plant to live. By weeks 3-4 flower the production by these sun leaves for the plant is under 50%. Therefore the large sun leaves are using more energy at that point than they are providing so by removing them the plant reverts that gain of energy into the buds. Same concept as topping/pinching, the plant pushes that energy back into other parts of the plant. If you want to get scientific its the hormone auxin that makes this possible. Yet I was verbally assulted for pointing out this fact. Plants really only use those large sun leaves for vegetation, its the smaller secondary sun leaves and bud/sugar leaves the plant uses to collect energy and make food for bud production.
I love it when someone else knows shit lol less I gotta explain ya everything he said is on point it's the reason I defoliate but it's also the reason there is such an argument on it you must do it on TIME!!!!! Too early and you sacrifice weight too late and you get a bunch of bullshit larf still and not much difference in bud size.
 
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