EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

[londonfog]

He has plenty of faults, like his opinions on nuclear energy, GMOs & gun regulation for example, but he is lightyears better than every other candidate and anybody with a basic understanding of the issues and an awareness of what's going on in the world can see that

You didn't answer my question; as a black man, which candidate has a better understanding of the solution to the problems that create crime according to both of their own words in the clips from earlier? Nothing was taken out of context, both Sanders and Clinton are very clear on how they want to solve the problem - Sanders says we need to focus on things like education, poverty rates, unemployment, the war on drugs, etc., Clinton says we need more police, more prisons and harsher sentences. So, in retrospect, with 22 years of evidence since, whose approach was better?

Let me know when Bernie is man enough to apologize for his vote.

 

[Fogdog]

All that really shows me is more evidence of Clinton swaying with public opinion. That's not to say that people can't evolve on their positions. I think that's actually a good thing when it's legitimate. The problem is, with Clinton, I don't think it is. I think she supports whatever the majority of the public supports just to keep her head above water since she's so unliked by the American public, she can't afford very many mistakes.

How's she plan on ending mass incarceration without ending the war on drugs? That's a pipe dream, that will never happen since it's a divided issue, and that's exactly what we're going to get with a Clinton administration. Lot's of talk, very little action.

I get it, you want it all at once and you are not going to get that from Hillary. She is the system and the status quo. I wanted Bernie to be the candidate too. That's not going to happen, no matter how hard Sky shouts this idea.

So, now we have Hillary. Jon Stewart said she is: "A bright woman without the courage of her convictions". You say she sways to public opinion. A leader who can bend to public will is not necessarily a bad thing. If Hillary were the sole factor, then I'd also say we are in for a long four years before we can replace her. (Come to think of it, I am saying that too.) Bernie and his movement are dragging Hillary toward the left. What Hillary said about her mistakes in statements regarding the 94 crime bill confirms that she can listen and change her position. I think that's a good thing. But a left leaning Congress is needed to hold Clinton to her word.

 

[ttystikk]

The 1994 crime bill, 22 years ago. People can evolve and change, which is why it's important to put more weight on recent statements and actions than ones in the past. Such as:

Hillary Clinton has already admitted that the 1994 bill went too far. She apologised for her use of the term "superpredator" when referring to a supposedly new kind of remorseless juvenile criminal that ultimately never emerged. She has spoken repeatedly on the campaign trail about ending mass incarceration. Her platform promises to make the Fair Sentencing Act retroactive and to reduce nonviolent drug crime mandatory sentences.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36020717

She recants her previous statement. Not saying disregard what she said earlier but to ignore her recent statements is pretty much denying that people can learn and change opinion.

So what? She says a lot of things. Her words carry no credibility with me.

I can and will vote for the candidate who most closely represents my views.

That's my right as a citizen, and I implore other citizens to do the same.

If the Chump ends up in the White House, we might start by blaming those who voted for him.

 

[londonfog]

So what? She says a lot of things. Her words carry no credibility with me.

I can and will vote for the candidate who most closely represents my views.

That's my right as a citizen, and I implore other citizens to do the same.

If the Chump ends up in the White House, we might start by blaming those who voted for him.

So what? She says a lot of things. Her words carry no credibility with me.

I can and will vote for the candidate who most closely represents my views.

That's my right as a citizen, and I implore other citizens to do the same.

If the Chump ends up in the White House, we might start by blaming those who voted for him.

I agree that you should vote for whomever you believe in. but understand that the person you are voting for will be voting for Hillary

 

[Padawanbater2]

Let me know when Bernie is man enough to apologize for his vote.

I just showed you two clips, one of Sanders condemning the crime bill and one of Clinton supporting it

You're not even intellectually honest enough to admit that Clinton was wrong and Sanders was right, so who's actually the one putting their faith in God's?

Hack. Just like I said before. I think they even have a name for that in the black community..

 

[Fogdog]

So what? She says a lot of things. Her words carry no credibility with me.

I can and will vote for the candidate who most closely represents my views.

That's my right as a citizen, and I implore other citizens to do the same.

If the Chump ends up in the White House, we might start by blaming those who voted for him.

I can and will vote my conscience as should you. I've never told you how to vote. I have pointed out that there is a moral conflict in your purported choice to vote for Bernie. Bernie isn't going to do that because he sees the consequences as being bad for this country if Trump is elected. Go figure.

If you have been following London and Paddy's discussion, her words were what they were talking about. It's not as if she was even holding an elected post in 1994, so it was all just words then. Even so, she recanted. If you can't respect somebody admitting they were wrong then that's your thing.

 

[Fogdog]

I just showed you two clips, one of Sanders condemning the crime bill and one of Clinton supporting it

You're not even intellectually honest enough to admit that Clinton was wrong and Sanders was right, so who's actually the one putting their faith in God's?

Hack. Just like I said before. I think they even have a name for that in the black community..

What elected office or official powers did Hillary have when she made those remarks in 1994?

 

[Padawanbater2]

If you have been following London and Paddy's discussion, her words were what they were talking about. It's not as if she was even holding an elected post in 1994, so it was all just words then. Even so, she recanted. If you can't respect somebody admitting they were wrong then that's your thing.

If it was just words, she wouldn't have bothered recanting. She was the first lady, her words had influence at the time

You believe her reasons for recanting, I, and I believe tty too, don't. That's why we don't respect it. I don't think someone who fucks up constantly but then apologises much later for it should be president.. I want somebody who gets it right the first time around and doesn't have to apologise later to be president..

 

[Padawanbater2]

What elected office or official powers did Hillary have when she made those remarks in 1994?

The first lady has influence and Clinton in particular heavily influenced the president at the time

 

[Fogdog]

If it was just words, she wouldn't have bothered recanting. She was the first lady, her words had influence at the time

You believe her reasons for recanting, I, and I believe tty too, don't. That's why we don't respect it. I don't think someone who fucks up constantly but then apologises much later for it should be president.. I want somebody who gets it right the first time around and doesn't have to apologise later to be president..

I'm not talking about moral purity. I'm not even talking about electing the best person available. Am I missing something? Because all I see are two very flawed people running that have the only shot at the presidency this November. Is there a realistic alternative?

Are you also taking the position that it's OK if Trump gets elected as POTUS?

Trump has 90% disapproval rating from Latino and Black voters. Could it be that bernie babies are less concerned about a Trump presidency because they won't be affected by Trump's racist policies?

 

[Fogdog]

The first lady has influence and Clinton in particular heavily influenced the president at the time

Is Michelle to be faulted because the ACA has issues with cost control? I believe she supported the measure.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I'm not talking about moral purity. I'm not even talking about electing the best person available. Am I missing something? Because all I see are two very flawed people running that have the only shot at the presidency this November. Is there a realistic alternative?

Are you also taking the position that it's OK if Trump gets elected as POTUS?

Trump has 90% disapproval rating from Latino and Black voters. Could it be that bernie babies are less concerned about a Trump presidency because they won't be affected by Trump's racist policies?

I was defending Sanders position on domestic crime and comparing it against Clinton's to illustrate how londonfog's opinion isn't based on policy. The fact that he couldn't even admit what decades of scientific research tells us and what all of us on the left have been arguing against conservatives on RIU for years about socioeconomics, poverty, unemployment and crime because it would show Sanders to be right is evidence supporting it

Trump has nothing to do with Sanders supporters supporting Clinton. Do you think it would be any different if Rubio or Cruz won the republican nomination? All the same criticisms we have of Clinton now would still be the same.. The accusation that we don't care if Trump wins because it wouldn't affect us very much either way is pure bullshit. Trumps economic plan doesn't distinguish between skin color, same thing with his campaign finance reform plan, education plan, healthcare plan, etc. Poor white people will be affected the same as poor black people. The fact he panders to racist elements of the right is irrelevant to the fact that Clinton is also a terrible candidate.

Skin color doesn't change the facts

 

[Padawanbater2]

Is Michelle to be faulted because the ACA has issues with cost control? I believe she supported the measure.

If the ACA turns out to be as big a failure as the 94 crime bill or the invasion of Iraq, I would certainly hope you would fault her for her support of it

 

[bluntmassa1]

I agree that you should vote for whomever you believe in. but understand that the person you are voting for will be voting for Hillary

Because he was full of shit on many issues and is truly pro establishment.

Feel the Johnson 2016!!

 

[UncleBuck]

gary johnson is a lifelong republican politician.

 

[londonfog]

Because he was full of shit on many issues and is truly pro establishment.

Feel the Johnson 2016!!

I like somethings Bernie said. He lost me on his tax plan and his numbers for how he was going to pay for shit.
Johnson does not have a chance in hell.

 

[bluntmassa1]

I like somethings Bernie said. He lost me on his tax plan and his numbers for how he was going to pay for shit.
Johnson does not have a chance in hell.

Better chance than Trump I'd put money on it and he is better than Hillary. He will definitely do really good if they let him debate Trump just sounds like an idiot and has no idea what to do as president besides build a wall so we can have drugs shipped via drone to doorstep.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I like somethings Bernie said. He lost me on his tax plan and his numbers for how he was going to pay for shit.
Johnson does not have a chance in hell.

All of his numbers added up. Sanders plan was endorsed by economic nobel laureates. Most economists agree it would have helped poor people, but hey, I guess since you're not poor and it won't affect you too much, it doesn't really matter..

If black people disapprove of Trump, and I don't support Clinton, that means I don't care about black people's problems right? So let's use the same logic..

If poor people disapprove of Clinton, and you don't support Sanders, that means you don't care about poor people's problems, too, right?

 

[Big_Lou]

I share similar beliefs with several of you guys, I'm also noticing that there seems to be almost a 'Justice League' dynamic among Hillary and Bernie supporters/apologists, heh.
Many of us share similar views and general goals/ideals, but can't quite seem to fully mesh....Superman can't get on with Batman 100% for various reasons, Green Lantern (Hal) is a good dude but out of touch with the times, Aquaman is a bit of a loner with a complex, Wonder Woman and Bruce have a 'history', etc.etc..


That's what makes the world go 'round, though, I suppose...

 

[Fogdog]

I was defending Sanders position on domestic crime and comparing it against Clinton's to illustrate how londonfog's opinion isn't based on policy. The fact that he couldn't even admit what decades of scientific research tells us and what all of us on the left have been arguing against conservatives on RIU for years about socioeconomics, poverty, unemployment and crime because it would show Sanders to be right is evidence supporting it

Trump has nothing to do with Sanders supporters supporting Clinton. Do you think it would be any different if Rubio or Cruz won the republican nomination? All the same criticisms we have of Clinton now would still be the same.. The accusation that we don't care if Trump wins because it wouldn't affect us very much either way is pure bullshit. Trumps economic plan doesn't distinguish between skin color, same thing with his campaign finance reform plan, education plan, healthcare plan, etc. Poor white people will be affected the same as poor black people. The fact he panders to racist elements of the right is irrelevant to the fact that Clinton is also a terrible candidate.

Skin color doesn't change the facts

Oh come now. Are you really saying that Trump has no racist policies and is not a racist? That his attack on the Trump U judge was not overt racism? That the wall is not a racist idea? That his wanting to ban immigration of Muslims isn't bigotry? That a racist president will be able to act fairly when policies affect people of color?

The idea that the mainly white Bernie babies will be unaffected by Trump's racist policies, so totally not bullshit. I can understand why you wouldn't like this to be pointed out to you. Nonetheless, it's true that you wouldn't be affected by Trump's racist attitudes. Unlike Latinos, you have no reason to be concerned for your own safety, family members or economic prospects if Trump makes it into the WH. I can't speak for you but will say that the number of Bernie babies who would let Trump win in a close election would be a much smaller number if his rhetoric menaced educated young white people. Because people can be counted upon to vote in their own self interest.

Polling data show that people of color strongly dislike Trump, to the tune of 90%. If not for Trump's racist rhetoric, what would you say explains this? Do you think Trump's menacing statements towards minorities have nothing to do with that?