Jesus Myth & Why It Endures

[GardenGnome83]

lol, the first example on that patheos site it wrong.

According to the Book of Exodus, Mount Sinai (Hebrew: הר סיני, Har Sinai) is the mountain at which the Ten Commandments were given to Moses by God. In the Book of Deuteronomy, these events are described as having transpired at Mount Horeb. The name "Sinai" is only used in the Torah by the Jahwist and Priestly source, whereas Horeb is only used by the Elohist and Deuteronomist.[1] "Sinai" and "Horeb" are generally considered to refer to the same place, although there is a small body of opinion that the two names may refer to different locations.

A small body of opinion?
It is a large body of opinion.
I figured you would make excuses for it.
What else did you find? All of those geniuses finding this stuff are no match for you!

 

[GardenGnome83]

lol, the first example on that patheos site it wrong.

According to the Book of Exodus, Mount Sinai (Hebrew: הר סיני, Har Sinai) is the mountain at which the Ten Commandments were given to Moses by God. In the Book of Deuteronomy, these events are described as having transpired at Mount Horeb. The name "Sinai" is only used in the Torah by the Jahwist and Priestly source, whereas Horeb is only used by the Elohist and Deuteronomist.[1] "Sinai" and "Horeb" are generally considered to refer to the same place, although there is a small body of opinion that the two names may refer to different locations.

By the way, you couldn't pick a weaker straw to grasp.
Pathetic.

 

[JCS57]

i'm sorry, i thought you had an actual point to make.

I do apologize for using you to help demonstrate my arguments, but hey it wasn't like you were unwilling. I get it you're used to arguing over context and how and when to interpret the Bible but that is and always will be a dead end. I'll leave you to continue your fight against the evil straw men you find so compelling to rail against may those evil buggers fall before you.

 

[JCS57]

By the way, you couldn't pick a weaker straw to grasp.
Pathetic.

Straw it's his thing just accept it for what it is. I have a granddaughter who's partial to a particular pillow, it's harmless they grow out of it.

 

[GardenGnome83]

Straw it's his thing just accept it for what it is. I have a granddaughter who's partial to a particular pillow, it's harmless they grow out of it.

Like the tooth fairy, or Santa?
Wait, wasn't St. Nick real???

 

[Hazy_Nights.DC]

Jesus Christ is real...just one of them mysteries...like Tupac is still alive...

 

[Pah]

Anyone cover Evil,Freewill and Predestination yet? Break out the Hume quote and have at it. Lol
Remember, God is omnipotent,omnipresent, omniscient and all loving.

“Epicurus's old questions are still unanswered: Is he (God) willing to prevent evil, but not able? then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? then whence evil?”

Arguing whether or not Jesus existed is rediculous. Was he God in the flesh,part of a triune diety? An asshole who upset the apple cart wherever he went?

 

[schnooby]

Ok all kidding aside honest question here for jc and gg etc....


what is the reason why you are here.......is it to merely engage in argument for sport.....or because you are genuinely interested in information that could change your minds?


ill tell you what i THINK as a mere mortal.
i think you are both fairly entrenched unbelievers who enjoy stirring shit up. And guess what, thats totally okay with because i enjoy it too.

however, lets not conflate honest truth seeking with playful or even mean spirited debate for its own sake. What the two of you are doing, the way you portray yourselves, and indeed, even by your own admission you were (in jcs case) a former xian and appear to have really already made up your own mind(s) about this stuff. If thats true then all conversation here is really no more than intellectual masturbation and some verbal jousting.

I need to ask how you can honestly expect anyone to take you seriously when you make it obvious youre not interested in believing. Youre very approach dooms anything other than wholehearted commitment to failure. You are looking for reasons to doubt, not reasons to believe. I dare say if you subjected many of lifes experiences to the same nihilistic attitude you would never have any meaningful relationships or experiences, constantly searching for every crumb or hint of incongruity. Almost no situation in life can bear such artificially exacting scrutiny.

Be that as it may, if you find yourself unable to come correct with what really drives you and brings you here, i am more than willing to joust with you and in time show what nonsense most if not all of your contradictions are.

And that leads me to another thing.....dont be such a lazy oaf merely copying and pasting other peoples works expecting me to address each one of the misapprehensions of scripture. Half the time those who hqve assembled those lists havent done any real scholarly research, instead picking verses about troops counts in one book that dont match those in another and so on......been there done that.

If you have any REAL questions lets have them, but my time is too valuable to go debunking websites you scattershot out your driveby window.

 

[Dalek Supreme]

please cite specific examples

Have at it.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com

 

[GardenGnome83]

Ok all kidding aside honest question here for jc and gg etc....


what is the reason why you are here.......is it to merely engage in argument for sport.....or because you are genuinely interested in information that could change your minds?


ill tell you what i THINK as a mere mortal.
i think you are both fairly entrenched unbelievers who enjoy stirring shit up. And guess what, thats totally okay with because i enjoy it too.

however, lets not conflate honest truth seeking with playful or even mean spirited debate for its own sake. What the two of you are doing, the way you portray yourselves, and indeed, even by your own admission you were (in jcs case) a former xian and appear to have really already made up your own mind(s) about this stuff. If thats true then all conversation here is really no more than intellectual masturbation and some verbal jousting.

I need to ask how you can honestly expect anyone to take you seriously when you make it obvious youre not interested in believing. Youre very approach dooms anything other than wholehearted commitment to failure. You are looking for reasons to doubt, not reasons to believe. I dare say if you subjected many of lifes experiences to the same nihilistic attitude you would never have any meaningful relationships or experiences, constantly searching for every crumb or hint of incongruity. Almost no situation in life can bear such artificially exacting scrutiny.

Be that as it may, if you find yourself unable to come correct with what really drives you and brings you here, i am more than willing to joust with you and in time show what nonsense most if not all of your contradictions are.

And that leads me to another thing.....dont be such a lazy oaf merely copying and pasting other peoples works expecting me to address each one of the misapprehensions of scripture. Half the time those who hqve assembled those lists havent done any real scholarly research, instead picking verses about troops counts in one book that dont match those in another and so on......been there done that.

If you have any REAL questions lets have them, but my time is too valuable to go debunking websites you scattershot out your driveby window.

I challenge that.
My desire to believe brought me here!
I hope heaven is real. I really do, but I'm pretty confident hell is not, and there is no god controlling anything.
Oh well, now I spread the truth.
It's only fair, if people get to preach myth as truth, I get to counter it.
I would love for you to try to explain the contradictions!
And I'm not going to type everything in my mind. I'll copy and paste all I want. That's what the bibles authors did, why can't I?
You are pretty full of it if you think you can explain away contradictions in the bible.
I'll wait here.
Explain rapists.
Explain murderers.
Explain child molesters.
Explain why God would drown everyone but one family, when he is love.
Explain the tornado that destroys every house in an extremely Christian town.
Explain that shit, and maybe I'll have time to listen to your bullshit.
Until then, it's all bullshit.
And don't say it's "god's will", that doesn't count.

 

[schnooby]

Anyone cover Evil,Freewill and Predestination yet? Break out the Hume quote and have at it. Lol
Remember, God is omnipotent,omnipresent, omniscient and all loving.

“Epicurus's old questions are still unanswered: Is he (God) willing to prevent evil, but not able? then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? then whence evil?”

Arguing whether or not Jesus existed is rediculous. Was he God in the flesh,part of a triune diety? An asshole who upset the apple cart wherever he went?

Lets take that example of God preventing or not preventing evil. First the premise is flawed because it forces a choice between only 3 options, and overly simplistic ones at that. Most rational people would never stand for such an ill conceived characterization of human behavior for we know the complexity and nuance to life can be bewildering where behavior in one context would be appropriate but not in another.

an example.

Youre child is learning how to walk. For a while you help, but then, as the child grows in skill and confidence you gradually begin letting go. You do this not wondering, but knowing your child will fall and probably hurt itself at some point. In some cases you reach out and steady the child, other times you let them fall. Are you evil because in some cases you act and in others you dont? Does not the arc of human experience require a variable approach to many things which may even seem the same in nature or character? Why to keep your child from falling one time, and let it fall the other?

Its a simplified example of course, but the principle contained iis applicable. The bible says we are here because our first parents broke cosmic law and there had to be consequences. the consequence was separation and death. There is also the role of satan to consider. So many people get the god questions wrong because they act as if its all about god and not about his arch enemy as well. Ephesians 6:12 we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities against powers against the rulers of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high places...."

that is a spiritual war it is talking about.

so maybe if one is going to ask about why god doesnt prevent evil things from happening, maybe it would be wise to start with ALL the salient facts that the question is presumably predicated upon, but often askew, namely,if we assume theres a god according to the bible, then it would be inconsistent to not include the biblical account of the devil as well.......an alien life form who was with the creator in "heaven" and who rebelled and was cast to earth.

One simply cannot have a legitimate conversation about certain questions if one leaves our critical components of the narrative which practically answer every question skeptics of bible theology have.

 

[Dalek Supreme]

You must not have the whole book if you think we are supposed to stone kids. Remember when they got ready to stone the woman for committing adultery and jesus told them not to unless they were without sin? Then he told the lady to go and sin no more. The old testament was the discipline and the new testament explained forgiveness.

The woman caught in adultery is a centuries later interpolation. It does not appear in early manuscripts, or mentioned by early church fathers.

"[The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11. A few manuscripts include these verses, wholly or in part, after John 7:36, John 21:25, Luke 21:38 or Luke 24:53.]"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 7:53-8:11&version=NIV

As for the rest of your meandering. You are being driven by the Holy Dopamine Ghost. In other words by believing you release FEEL GOOD neurochemicals that make ancient ignorant people's nonsense make total sense to you. Worst of all these same neurochemicals strengthens network connections the same way it does any other addict.

People can talk logic, reason, show you the facts that you are wrong, and you will never see it just like a true addict.

The day the human race actually becomes humble, is the day it admits they are evolved mutated crazy apes. Then goes on stopping acting like it by throwing away fairy tales treated as reality.

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

Lets take that example of God preventing or not preventing evil. First the premise is flawed because it forces a choice between only 3 options, and overly simplistic ones at that. Most rational people would never stand for such an ill conceived characterization of human behavior for we know the complexity and nuance to life can be bewildering where behavior in one context would be appropriate but not in another.

an example.

Youre child is learning how to walk. For a while you help, but then, as the child grows in skill and confidence you gradually begin letting go. You do this not wondering, but knowing your child will fall and probably hurt itself at some point. In some cases you reach out and steady the child, other times you let them fall. Are you evil because in some cases you act and in others you dont? Does not the arc of human experience require a variable approach to many things which may even seem the same in nature or character? Why to keep your child from falling one time, and let it fall the other?

Its a simplified example of course, but the principle contained iis applicable. The bible says we are here because our first parents broke cosmic law and there had to be consequences. the consequence was separation and death. There is also the role of satan to consider. So many people get the god questions wrong because they act as if its all about god and not about his arch enemy as well. Ephesians 6:12 we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities against powers against the rulers of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high places...."

that is a spiritual war it is talking about.

so maybe if one is going to ask about why god doesnt prevent evil things from happening, maybe it would be wise to start with ALL the salient facts that the question is presumably predicated upon, but often askew, namely,if we assume theres a god according to the bible, then it would be inconsistent to not include the biblical account of the devil as well.......an alien life form who was with the creator in "heaven" and who rebelled and was cast to earth.

One simply cannot have a legitimate conversation about certain questions if one leaves our critical components of the narrative which practically answer every question skeptics of bible theology have.

These people can't even figure out whether there is a god or not, so them trying to understanding spiritual things like principalities and powers is like a baby trying to understand basic algebra. Instead of trying to find out what the word of god is all about for themselves, they use poorly researched websites and everything other than the bible to try to understand it.

Think about it. The pharisees and sadducees were very in tune to the scriptures, but they couldn't even figure out what god was trying to tell them through jesus (should i enter into my mother's womb and be born again when i am so old? - nicodemus the leader of the pharisees). And remember, Jesus said he was only speaking of earthly things there and they couldn't handle if he spoke of spiritual things. Remember when Jesus said he was coming back, would he find faith? that means faith is going to be dead by time he gets back; i'm sure you can see the hopelessness of this world.

It seems most studies end up leading us to the part where it says that god's true children will only be a small flock during this age. Narrow is the path we walk, but when Jesus returns to whole world is going to mourn. Thank god we only have to face death once, and will be resurrected into our spiritual bodies for the 1,000 year reign while satan is locked up. That is if we hold strong until the end.

 

[Dalek Supreme]

Lets take that example of God preventing or not preventing evil. First the premise is flawed because it forces a choice between only 3 options, and overly simplistic ones at that. Most rational people would never stand for such an ill conceived characterization of human behavior for we know the complexity and nuance to life can be bewildering where behavior in one context would be appropriate but not in another.

an example.

Youre child is learning how to walk. For a while you help, but then, as the child grows in skill and confidence you gradually begin letting go. You do this not wondering, but knowing your child will fall and probably hurt itself at some point. In some cases you reach out and steady the child, other times you let them fall. Are you evil because in some cases you act and in others you dont? Does not the arc of human experience require a variable approach to many things which may even seem the same in nature or character? Why to keep your child from falling one time, and let it fall the other?

Its a simplified example of course, but the principle contained iis applicable. The bible says we are here because our first parents broke cosmic law and there had to be consequences. the consequence was separation and death. There is also the role of satan to consider. So many people get the god questions wrong because they act as if its all about god and not about his arch enemy as well. Ephesians 6:12 we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities against powers against the rulers of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high places...."

that is a spiritual war it is talking about.

so maybe if one is going to ask about why god doesnt prevent evil things from happening, maybe it would be wise to start with ALL the salient facts that the question is presumably predicated upon, but often askew, namely,if we assume theres a god according to the bible, then it would be inconsistent to not include the biblical account of the devil as well.......an alien life form who was with the creator in "heaven" and who rebelled and was cast to earth.

One simply cannot have a legitimate conversation about certain questions if one leaves our critical components of the narrative which practically answer every question skeptics of bible theology have.

Do not forget that the Bible prophesied the Moon landing hoax. There's no way NASA can make a rocket that can pierce through the molten glass dome (firmament which the sun, moon, and stars are set in) that holds back the ocean above (blue sky).

Bible for the win.

Do not fooled by people that took a philosophy class, and think they can win arguments with it.

 

[GardenGnome83]

These people can't even figure out whether there is a god or not, so them trying to understanding spiritual things like principalities and powers is like a baby trying to understand basic algebra. Instead of trying to find out what the word of god is all about for themselves, they use poorly researched websites and everything other than the bible to try to understand it.

Think about it. The pharisees and sadducees were very in tune to the scriptures, but they couldn't even figure out what god was trying to tell them through jesus (should i enter into my mother's womb and be born again when i am so old? - nicodemus the leader of the pharisees). And remember, Jesus said he was only speaking of earthly things there and they couldn't handle if he spoke of spiritual things. Remember when Jesus said he was coming back, would he find faith? that means faith is going to be dead by time he gets back; i'm sure you can see the hopelessness of this world.

It seems most studies end up leading us to the part where it says that god's true children will only be a small flock during this age. Narrow is the path we walk, but when Jesus returns to whole world is going to mourn. Thank god we only have to face death once, and will be resurrected into our spiritual bodies for the 1,000 year reign while satan is locked up. That is if we hold strong until the end.

Lol, have fun waiting for jesus. He's not coming back, because he was never here.
Your delusion is psychiatric, but you don't care do you?

 

[Dalek Supreme]

These people can't even figure out whether there is a god or not, so them trying to understanding spiritual things like principalities and powers is like a baby trying to understand basic algebra. Instead of trying to find out what the word of god is all about for themselves, they use poorly researched websites and everything other than the bible to try to understand it.

Think about it. The pharisees and sadducees were very in tune to the scriptures, but they couldn't even figure out what god was trying to tell them through jesus (should i enter into my mother's womb and be born again when i am so old? - nicodemus the leader of the pharisees). And remember, Jesus said he was only speaking of earthly things there and they couldn't handle if he spoke of spiritual things. Remember when Jesus said he was coming back, would he find faith? that means faith is going to be dead by time he gets back; i'm sure you can see the hopelessness of this world.

It seems most studies end up leading us to the part where it says that god's true children will only be a small flock during this age. Narrow is the path we walk, but when Jesus returns to whole world is going to mourn. Thank god we only have to face death once, and will be resurrected into our spiritual bodies for the 1,000 year reign while satan is locked up. That is if we hold strong until the end.

Just read Leviticus 14. Then I can tell you what it really means, and not through your Holy Dopamine Ghost blinders.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+14&version=RSV

 

[GardenGnome83]

Just read Leviticus 14. Then I can tell you what it really means, and not through your Holy Dopamine Ghost blinders.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+14&version=RSV

Holy dopamine ghost binders lol
I love it!

 

[Dalek Supreme]

Lol, have fun waiting for jesus. He's not coming back, because he was never here.
Your delusion is psychiatric, but you don't care do you?

Try talking sense to an alcoholic, or a gambler. It's the same neurology behind God belief addiction.

 

[R1b3n4]

 

[Pah]

Lets take that example of God preventing or not preventing evil. First the premise is flawed because it forces a choice between only 3 options, and overly simplistic ones at that. Most rational people would never stand for such an ill conceived characterization of human behavior for we know the complexity and nuance to life can be bewildering where behavior in one context would be appropriate but not in another.

an example.

Youre child is learning how to walk. For a while you help, but then, as the child grows in skill and confidence you gradually begin letting go. You do this not wondering, but knowing your child will fall and probably hurt itself at some point. In some cases you reach out and steady the child, other times you let them fall. Are you evil because in some cases you act and in others you dont? Does not the arc of human experience require a variable approach to many things which may even seem the same in nature or character? Why to keep your child from falling one time, and let it fall the other?

Its a simplified example of course, but the principle contained iis applicable. The bible says we are here because our first parents broke cosmic law and there had to be consequences. the consequence was separation and death. There is also the role of satan to consider. So many people get the god questions wrong because they act as if its all about god and not about his arch enemy as well. Ephesians 6:12 we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities against powers against the rulers of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high places...."

that is a spiritual war it is talking about.

so maybe if one is going to ask about why god doesnt prevent evil things from happening, maybe it would be wise to start with ALL the salient facts that the question is presumably predicated upon, but often askew, namely,if we assume theres a god according to the bible, then it would be inconsistent to not include the biblical account of the devil as well.......an alien life form who was with the creator in "heaven" and who rebelled and was cast to earth.

One simply cannot have a legitimate conversation about certain questions if one leaves our critical components of the narrative which practically answer every question skeptics of bible theology have.

So,the devil? Did Satan surprise god? Can god be surprised? Then,whence evil?