Help - Tried everything Fox Farms Ocean Forest - Brown Leaves

[whitebb2727]

More like holding a persons head underwater and trying to drown them.

The best bet if going organic is buying some amendments and mixing it yourself.

Walmart carries all kinds of organic stuff now.

I use a local humus as a base for less than $2 a 40lb bag.

I add lime, crushed oyster shell, espoma garden tone, espoma bio tone, down to earth all purpose, espoma kelp meal, worm castings, compost, and a few other things.

The worm castings I get from my own worm bin and I have a compost pile that I put my livestock manure, leaves, uncolored paper, and a another mix that has stuff lime bone and feather meal in it.

Once you get up and running its not bad as most of those things can be gotten cheap. You don't have to use much to re amend.

Mix a couple batches and cook. Once you do your first grow you can alternate and let the other batch cook (sit) while the current run grows.

My last water only grow.

 

[StoneyMcphatter]

The best bet if going organic is buying some amendments and mixing it yourself.

Walmart carries all kinds of organic stuff now.

I use a local humus as a base for less than $2 a 40lb bag.

I add lime, crushed oyster shell, espoma garden tone, espoma bio tone, down to earth all purpose, espoma kelp meal, worm castings, compost, and a few other things.

The worm castings I get from my own worm bin and I have a compost pile that I put my livestock manure, leaves, uncolored paper, and a another mix that has stuff lime bone and feather meal in it.

Once you get up and running its not bad as most of those things can be gotten cheap. You don't have to use much to re amend.

Mix a couple batches and cook. Once you do your first grow you can alternate and let the other batch cook (sit) while the current run grows.

My last water only grow.
View attachment 3704924 View attachment 3704929

Not sure why ya quoted me mate, ma plants are fine. But thats a nice donkey dick ya got there if I ever seen one.

 

[whitebb2727]

Not sure why ya quoted me mate, ma plants are fine. But thats a nice donkey dick ya got there if I ever seen one.

Didn't say you had bad plants. You quoted me.

I quoted you back.

The rest was just for the op's info.

Thanks though.

 

[mr sunshine]

Looks over watered.

 

[whitebb2727]

Looks over watered.

The op said they watered when it got really dry.

I've seen those brown necrotic spots before. I had an outdoor plant that got really dry and the center of the root ball got hydrophobic. I didn't know it until I chopped it down.

I couldn't figure out what it was. You would water and within a day it looked bad again. I tried all kinds of stuff and got mad and dug it up to figure out what was going on.


To me it looks like chronic under watering followed by over watering.

 

[mr sunshine]

The op said they watered when it got really dry.

I've seen those brown necrotic spots before. I had an outdoor plant that got really dry and the center of the root ball got hydrophobic. I didn't know it until I chopped it down.

I couldn't figure out what it was. You would water and within a day it looked bad again. I tried all kinds of stuff and got mad and dug it up to figure out what was going on.


To me it looks like chronic under watering followed by over watering.

it's definitely ph fluctuations due to watering habits.

 

[whitebb2727]

it's definitely ph fluctuations due to watering habits.

Definitely.

 

[6ohMax]

What brand/type of Ph meter/tester is a good one ? Seasoned growers, which do you recommend?

 

[whitebb2727]

Not sure why ya quoted me mate, ma plants are fine. But thats a nice donkey dick ya got there if I ever seen one.

My point wasn't really directed at you. It was to anyone reading and interested.

Like with the problems report with fox farms. Its a regional thing. They got so big it comes from different places. If you notice on a lot of bagged soil in small letters it states that it was made with local products and may vary by region.

The only way to know what's in something is to make it yourself. The only way to ensure quality is do it yourself.

I messed around with a few local products and found one I liked and use it as a base. I keep a few 55 gallons drums around that I use for flowers and other things.

Found some baled stuff that is 4 cubic ft dry and compressed for $25 that I've been playing around with as a base.

Anyways, nothing meant towards you.

 

[whitebb2727]

What brand/type of Ph meter/tester is a good one ? Seasoned growers, which do you recommend?

I gave mine away. I don't use one. With a few amendments you don't have to worry about it.

Soil buffers itself.

 

[6ohMax]

I gave mine away. I don't use one. With a few amendments you don't have to worry about it.

Soil buffers itself.

How's that? May I ask?

 

[whitebb2727]

How's that? May I ask?

http://www.noble.org/ag/soils/soilacidity/

 

[whitebb2727]

Things like calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium help buffer pH.

Heavy rain or having to leach salts from your soil strip those things from the soil.

Organic decay is what is responsible for the ions that buffer pH.

Over flushing a plant will wreck the soils ability to buffer pH.

 

[polishpollack]

over water or over fert? it is both. if the grower is over feeding and using a fert mixed in water and giving that, it is too much of both, unless the soil is being allowed to dry out and the soil has no nutrients in it. it looks like in this case, neither has been happening much. ffof has fert in it already but exactly how much is unknown. people should feel free to contact the company and ask. soil needs to dry out between waterings because the roots need oxygen and drying out is the only way they get it. so you want to use a wet/dry cycle. and don't fert so much when you water, unless you know for a fact that there is no fert in the soil already.

 

[Tim Fox]

So to give a little background here on setup and everything.

Temps - 74F - 80F

2x 300w Mars Hydro LEDS

Planted in Fox Farms Ocean forest soil in 3 gal smart pots

Nutrients -
watering only when getting really dry schedule:
Feed - 3ml Fox Farms Grow Big, 2ml Fox Farms Big Bloom

After I feed I do 2 cycles of water that include 5ml - CalMag, 7ml Hydrogaurd before I do another feeding. So it goes feed - water - water - feed whenever they get dry. ---Water and feed using tap water Ph'd down to 6.5 - With water cycle getting around 350ppm - Feed cycle getting around 750ppm

2 plants - Papaya from Nirvana - Hybrid Indica. On day 40 of vegetation from first sign of sprouting.


I'm at a loss here for a few reasons and I've done a ton of research to try and remedy the problem. One plant is doing completely fine and great and the other is on the verge of dying. Both plants get the same water , same soil, everything.

They were growing great other than the one having issues now seemed like a different plant all together when it started growing it grew massive fan leaves like it was on steroids. The plants both had issues with a bit of nitrogen toxicity and chem burn on the tips but nothing major.. all bounced back when adjusting feed.

The plant having the issue though I have flushed, adjusted ppm's , adjusted PH etc. When I flushed I got a runoff of 4ph and around 350ppm - So I flushed until the runoff was 6ph. Still getting worse with the brown spots starting to take over all leaves.

I did some research it appears this is fairly common with fox farms ocean forest. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.. Don't want to see this plant go down because of the soil as it's my first grow.

I have done 2 grows now start to finish in FFOF,, and use Water Only the whole way,, I did ad lime to my ffof and i used some dry organic happy frog fert mixed in the soil,,
then nothing but tap water the whole way
BUT,, When I did do a grow with ffof and I added nutes and ferts like you are,, i have all kinds of rough and tough happen,,,then after reading allot it was shown that ffof is meant as a complete soil where you ad nothing,,
if you do want to ad ferts,, then you need a more inert media, some even go so far as to grow only in rock wool or coco,, so the medium ads nothing , so its only what your adding
I hope this helps

 

[whitebb2727]

over water or over fert? it is both. if the grower is over feeding and using a fert mixed in water and giving that, it is too much of both, unless the soil is being allowed to dry out and the soil has no nutrients in it. it looks like in this case, neither has been happening much. ffof has fert in it already but exactly how much is unknown. people should feel free to contact the company and ask. soil needs to dry out between waterings because the roots need oxygen and drying out is the only way they get it. so you want to use a wet/dry cycle. and don't fert so much when you water, unless you know for a fact that there is no fert in the soil already.

A well draining soil is almost impossible to over water. The dry cycle is not provides oxygen.

The actual watering process does. As the water passes through the soil and over the roots it draws oxygen in.

 

[polishpollack]

where does your oxygen come from? the water itself? there are only two sources for oxygen here... the water (H2O) and oxygen of the air. if water provides the oxygen then it is no longer water when it gives up its oxygen. it is the dry cycle after watering that brings fresh oxygen into the soil. proof of this is in persistent wet soil preventing oxygen from getting into the soil. more proof is in hydroponics, where air has to be pumped in as the water itself and will not provide oxygen to roots, or ebb and flow, where roots are flooded, then later exposed to air. atmospheric pressure will push air into soil, providing oxygen, but this won't happen in the presence of too much water, whether the soil drains or not. The water must drain and DRY in order for oxygen to penetrate the soil.

 

[Awkcyde]

where does your oxygen come from? the water itself? there are only two sources for oxygen here... the water (H2O) and oxygen of the air. if water provides the oxygen then it is no longer water when it gives up its oxygen. it is the dry cycle after watering that brings fresh oxygen into the soil. proof of this is in persistent wet soil preventing oxygen from getting into the soil. more proof is in hydroponics, where air has to be pumped in as the water itself and will not provide oxygen to roots, or ebb and flow, where roots are flooded, then later exposed to air. atmospheric pressure will push air into soil, providing oxygen, but this won't happen in the presence of too much water, whether the soil drains or not. The water must drain and DRY in order for oxygen to penetrate the soil.

That's what I've been going from and following other than the time I flushed I watered again before a complete dry.

Here's some pictures of the 2 plants - Problem plant #1

Stem Plant #1

Plant #2 - Doing OK with some signs of chem burn on the tips

Plants are all on day 42 of VEG - Both getting same nutrient / soil everything - After the 750ppm feed and FF nutrients going to continue with just a plain tap water - not Ph'd with a bit of calmag for a bit ( trying non Ph'd because I've been using Ph'd Down on my tap water which may have collected causing PH issues while watering )

 

[Woyaboy]

The best bet if going organic is buying some amendments and mixing it yourself.

Walmart carries all kinds of organic stuff now.

I use a local humus as a base for less than $2 a 40lb bag.

I add lime, crushed oyster shell, espoma garden tone, espoma bio tone, down to earth all purpose, espoma kelp meal, worm castings, compost, and a few other things.

The worm castings I get from my own worm bin and I have a compost pile that I put my livestock manure, leaves, uncolored paper, and a another mix that has stuff lime bone and feather meal in it.

Once you get up and running its not bad as most of those things can be gotten cheap. You don't have to use much to re amend.

Mix a couple batches and cook. Once you do your first grow you can alternate and let the other batch cook (sit) while the current run grows.


Beautiful man. What lights you using? Mind if I ask you a question about a soil I mixed? Just wanna make sure I did it right.

 

[Woyaboy]

I have done 2 grows now start to finish in FFOF,, and use Water Only the whole way,, I did ad lime to my ffof and i used some dry organic happy frog fert mixed in the soil,,
then nothing but tap water the whole way
BUT,, When I did do a grow with ffof and I added nutes and ferts like you are,, i have all kinds of rough and tough happen,,,then after reading allot it was shown that ffof is meant as a complete soil where you ad nothing,,
if you do want to ad ferts,, then you need a more inert media, some even go so far as to grow only in rock wool or coco,, so the medium ads nothing , so its only what your adding
I hope this helps

Hey, make sure you tell them about how you repot your plants though when using that mix. As a newb I didn't know about that. If you don't do that, then my bad, I must have not remembered right.