New Age United
Well-Known Member
Someone switched this thread from tech and science to ss&p and obviously for good reason.
Jesus Myth & Why It Endures
- Thread starter Dalek Supreme
- Start date
New Age United
Well-Known Member
You are ignorant, you are not actually paying attention to the words you are instantly applying your own judgment, which first you must understand is subjective, you must find the objective in these words, the authors original intent, this requires a keen intuition.
"All man came from the dust of the ground by way of the tiny germ cell uniting" the Quran. It is an effort by early man's intuition to discern the truth, perhaps women came from man, a reasonable assumption considering the knowledge of that time.
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New Age United
Well-Known Member
I K ow very well the effects of dopamine on the brain and mind. I have spoken in great detail with doctors about the effects of dopamine and it's purpose in memory and pleasure functions. However dopamine is not responsible in any way for Conciousness, which is permanent and not fleeting.There's basically two ideas of thought on an historical Jesus. One being the Christian view in that the New Testament is an historical document free of error. The other is mainstream secular scholars saying the NT has kernals of truth, but who Jesus was (wandering Rabbi, or militant leader, and everything in between) is up for debate.
There's a third camp which is Jesus is entirely a myth. The "Mythicist" position is fringe, and racked with bad bad scholarship. Keep in mind that up till the 1970's the idea that the Biblical patriarchs being mythical was considered fringe, but today most scholars do not believe Moses, or Abraham was historical.
I have put together two sections (* & **). The historical (*) section shows how scant the evidence is for an historical Jesus, and that the evidence under critical analyses points to myth. The science (**) section shows the neurology, and psychology on why people cling onto irrational beliefs, and habits that's next to impossible to reason them out of.
There are many Pagan parallels that are misleading, but some are religious syncretism of Hellenistic Jews, and what the later Catholic Church integrated. Keep in mind that Christianity went through a long and strong filter, but some elements of it's origin made it through.
The first three links are for those that have an aversion to watching videos especially from Youtube. I do highly recommend at least watching the first 8 minutes of the fourth link which is a lecture by Dr. Richard Carrier. I also recommend watching the short clip by Dr. Robert Sapolsky which starts off the science section.
For those few that find this information interesting, and compelling? Please pass it on to like minds...Thank you
* Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm
Jesus Myth Part II - Follow-up, Commentary, and Expansion
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_followup.htm
The Gospel of Mark as Reaction and Allegory
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/gospel_mark.htm
Dr. Richard Carrier: The Mythical Jesus
Mythmaking in the NT
Why the Gospels Are Myth
Acts as Historical Fiction
Dr. Robert M Price: The Jesus Question
New Testament Narrative as Old Testament Midrash
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_midrash1.htm
New Testament Interpolations & Forgeries
http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/06/pauline-interpolations.html?m=1
http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Legends2
http://depts.drew.edu/jhc/rp1cor15.html
The James that Paul met was the "Brother of the Lord" in a fictive kinship of all Baptized Christians. Paul was also differentiating James from a racist James that did not behave in a spiritual family.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=291478
Ancient Greek pottery ( 4th century BCE) depicting women performing a passion play for Dionysus (God of Wine). They are in ritual "Omophagia" consuming the flesh (pulp/skins), and blood (wine) of the God depicted on a Tropaion (Trophy). Starting off the annual festival priests put casks of water in the God's temple which turn into Wine the next day.
http://lost-history.com/images/vase1.jpg
Bible Buried Secrets
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qalTJzk4kO0
Who Was Moses (starts @ 10:20)
https://youtu.be/IybD2xzkhtc
**Praise Jesus "Serotonin" Christ & The Holy "Dopamine" Ghost!
Neurochemical mechanisms EVOLVED for the drive to gather resources for the perpetuation of the species that does not take account of our PRESENT COGNITION. The root force behind ADDICTIONS like GAMBLING & MISTAKEN as a DIVINE PRESENCE (imaginary friend) by some. We are PATTERN SEEKERS (to see that Lion in the tall Grass & discern which Berries made us sick), yearn for "WHAT FEELS GOOD", and when "MAYBE" is entered into the equation it has dynamic effects neurologicaly (our pitfall). Drugs like Cocaine, or Heroine release these REWARD neurochemicals, but thoughts like winning money, or John 3:16 is just as addictive. The release of the Holy "Dopamine" Ghost strengthens neural pathways which leads to CONFIRMATION & COGNITIVE BIASES (ever try to reason someone out of a bad habit?).
Google "Dopamine Reward System", "Dopamine in Relation to Addiction", "Dopamine Creativity", "Dopamine Release Sleep Deprivation", and "Dopamine Hypothesis".
Dr. Robert Sapolsky: Dopamine Jackpot (Science of Pleasure)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0
Dopamine's Role in Reward
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVoYpiiy7jg
SciShow: Chemistry of Addiction
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ukFjH9odsXw
SciShow: Why Am I Hallucinating
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sB9sTz_gyU
Sleep Paralysis & Phantom Intruders
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vIuHvl-Pc
Critical Thinking, Confirmation Bias, & You
https://youtu.be/CjWOP1aLEIs
SciShow: Science of Lying
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MX3Hu8loXTE
Russian Fox Experiments
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFGNQScRNY
Dr. Michael Shermer: The Believing Brain
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAwfv3HYGo
Bonus:
Law of Truly Large Numbers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_truly_large_numbers
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
I see that you are influenced by the Holy Dopamine Ghost.
The New Testament is not history. It's a pocket Old Testament where the Jesus character trumps the OT patriarchs. Here's an example of the unknown author of Mark using OT narratives to create his Jesus story.
Mark 9:2-4
"2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus."
Exodus 24:12
"12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them."
Exodus 24:15-18
"15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud."
17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights."
Exodus 34:29
"29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him."
Malachi 3:2
"2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:"
Mark 9:9
"9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead."
Daniel 12:4
"4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
As for the Quran, it's just a merchant warlord and his group reinventing stories circulating at the time.
Genesis 1:16 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"16 And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary -- and the stars -- for the rule of the night;"
Quran 71:16 ( Mohsin Khan translation)
"And has made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?"
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=71&verse=16
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/moonlight_wc.html
Quran 18:86 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness.""
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=18&verse=86
Hadith Book 25, Number 3991: Narrated Abu Dharr:
"I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where it sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water (hamiyah)."
http://www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/abudawood/025_sat.html
Quran 20:53 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation."
Quran 43:10 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way,"
Quran 78:6 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Have We not made the earth as a bed,"
Quran 18:47 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind."
Allah's Missile Defense System (Shooting Stars repel Demons/Jinn that try to rise up and listen to Allah's celestial council of Angels)
Quran 72:8-9
And we have sought [to reach] the heaven but found it filled with powerful guards and burning flames.9)And we used to sit therein in positions for hearing, but whoever listens now will find a burning flame lying in wait for him.
Quran 37:6-10
6)Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars
7)And as protection against every rebellious devil
[So] they may not listen to the exalted assembly [of angels] and are pelted from every side,9)Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment,
10)Except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness].
Quran 67:5
5)And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze.
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 432:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The angels descend, the clouds and mention this or that matter decreed in the Heaven. The devils listen stealthily to such a matter, come down to inspire the soothsayers with it, and the latter would add to it one-hundred lies of their own."
http://www.islam4theworld.net/hadith/bukhari/51to55.htm
http://www.islam4theworld.net/hadith/bukhari/51to55.htm
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 650:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Some people asked the Prophet regarding the soothsayers. He said, "They are nothing." They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Some of their talks come true." The Prophet said, "That word which happens to be true is what a Jinn snatches away by stealth (from the Heaven) and pours it in the ears of his friend (the foreteller) with a sound like the cackling of a hen. The soothsayers then mix with that word, one hundred lies."
https://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/093-sbt.php
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=263536&#entry5102494
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Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
The Holy Dopamine Ghost can make sense out of complete nonsense (just Google "Dopamine Creativity").
Neil deGrasse Tyson on religious people
Studies show that religious beliefs tend to drop off for those of acedemia, but not entirely. The thing is being smart does not make one less prone to addiction. Doctors have been known to abuse the very meds they prescribe.
Apparently a PhD is not rewarding enough? I do not expect Sam Harris to come out with this connection. It's not politically correct, and he would rather reason those out of nonsense that can be. Others will do the mental dodge to maintain that REWARD.
The Holy Dopamine Ghost has millions upon millions of years under it's belt.
"Neuropharmacological studies generally point to dopaminergic activation as the leading neurochemical feature associated with religious activity."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16439158
Dr. Nora Volkow: How Drug Addiction Hijacks the Brain
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New Age United
Well-Known Member
Yes actually had a few too many drinks last night lol!!! Sorry for getting in your face thanks for all the material I will go over it some time today.I see that you are influenced by the Holy Dopamine Ghost.
The New Testament is not history. It's a pocket Old Testament where the Jesus character trumps the OT patriarchs. Here's an example of the unknown author of Mark using OT narratives to create his Jesus story.
Mark 9:2-4
"2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus."
Exodus 24:12
"12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them."
Exodus 24:15-18
"15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud."
17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights."
Exodus 34:29
"29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him."
Malachi 3:2
"2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:"
Mark 9:9
"9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead."
Daniel 12:4
"4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
As for the Quran, it's just a merchant warlord and his group reinventing stories circulating at the time.
Genesis 1:16 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"16 And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary -- and the stars -- for the rule of the night;"
Quran 71:16 ( Mohsin Khan translation)
"And has made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?"
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=71&verse=16
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/moonlight_wc.html
Quran 18:86 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness.""
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=18&verse=86
Hadith Book 25, Number 3991: Narrated Abu Dharr:
"I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where it sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water (hamiyah)."
http://www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/abudawood/025_sat.html
Quran 20:53 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation."
Quran 43:10 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way,"
Quran 78:6 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"Have We not made the earth as a bed,"
Quran 18:47 (Mohsin Khan translation)
"And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind."
Allah's Missile Defense System (Shooting Stars repel Demons/Jinn that try to rise up and listen to Allah's celestial council of Angels)
Quran 72:8-9
9)And we used to sit therein in positions for hearing, but whoever listens now will find a burning flame lying in wait for him.
Quran 37:6-10
6)Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars
7)And as protection against every rebellious devil
9)Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment,
10)Except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness].
Quran 67:5
5)And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze.
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 432:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The angels descend, the clouds and mention this or that matter decreed in the Heaven. The devils listen stealthily to such a matter, come down to inspire the soothsayers with it, and the latter would add to it one-hundred lies of their own."
http://www.islam4theworld.net/hadith/bukhari/51to55.htm
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 650:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Some people asked the Prophet regarding the soothsayers. He said, "They are nothing." They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Some of their talks come true." The Prophet said, "That word which happens to be true is what a Jinn snatches away by stealth (from the Heaven) and pours it in the ears of his friend (the foreteller) with a sound like the cackling of a hen. The soothsayers then mix with that word, one hundred lies."
https://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/093-sbt.php
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=263536&#entry5102494
New Age United
Well-Known Member
Can you please define "holy dopamine ghost" ?
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
"Is it proper to use science to evaluate a position that makes no scientific claim?"
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
That's ok. I'm used to it.
The Holy Dopamine Ghost is defined at the start of the science section.
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
I'm addressing an historical claim, and then use science to show why some people refuse reason when it comes to certain beliefs.
Neil deGrasse Tyson on religious people
Studies show that religious beliefs tend to drop off for those of acedemia, but not entirely. The thing is being smart does not make one less prone to addiction. Doctors have been known to abuse the very meds they prescribe for instance.
Apparently a PhD is not rewarding enough. I do not expect Sam Harris to come out with this connection. It's not politically correct, and he would rather reason those out of nonsense that can be. Others will do the mental dodge to maintain thoughts for that REWARD.
The Holy Dopamine Ghost has millions upon millions of years under it's belt. It's evolution, not evidence of the divine.
"Neuropharmacological studies generally point to dopaminergic activation as the leading neurochemical feature associated with religious activity."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16439158
Dr. Nora Volkow: How Drug Addiction Hijacks the Brain
"Most of the genes found in the fruit fly—more accurately referred to as the vinegar fly—are found in humans as well, including those neurons that produce brain chemicals like dopamine and serotonin, which have been implicated in psychiatric disorders."
http://m.caltech.edu/news/caltech-scientists-find-emotion-behaviors-regulated-dopamine-fruit-flies-1580
The Brain Is In Continual Conflict
Flashing lights and music turn rats into problem gamblers
http://news.ubc.ca/2016/01/20/flashing-lights-and-music-turn-rats-into-problem-gamblers/
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
@Dalek Supreme Tyson's hero is Bruno, a man who's vision of heliocentricity changed the way we look at the solar system / universe. Yes, I said vision.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
An artistic one.
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Tyson's #1 bad ass hero is Sir Isaac Newton. The guy who believed Lead can be transmuted to Gold. Also an Hair sample of his was tested to have high levels of Arsonic due to his Alchemy experiments on himself.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Ah, I see, so, his #2 bad ass hero changed the way we view the universe - with a vision.
reddan1981
Well-Known Member
I took a keen interest in researching Isaac Newton once and it led me down a path which now makes me question everything we know about (mainstream) science lol
schnooby
Well-Known Member
there are alot of reasons why trying to explain faith or religion as a self reinforcing reward based activity in neurochemical terms is just fatally flawed.
First, reasoning backwards that the good feeling produced by an activity somehow negates the rational basis for the activity,or explains it away, is a philosophical slippery slope descending into a blackhole. You could similarly frame every human behavior in terms of the biochemical reward system that accompanies the activity, and THAT is madness.
Second, even if you could effectively argue that people engage in religious behaviors for the feel good pay off that doesnt address the likelihood that many religious, spiritual people have varying levels of these chemicals or maybe even none at all in the case of dysfunction. How do those biological variables impqct the thesis that religion or spirituality only exist because of feel good chemicals in the brain.
I see it as a desperate attempt at explaining things away without realizing that its a snake eating itself, as all human behaviors could be similarly reduced to nothing more than animalistic basic primal urges which are encourages by neurochemical orgasms.
First, reasoning backwards that the good feeling produced by an activity somehow negates the rational basis for the activity,or explains it away, is a philosophical slippery slope descending into a blackhole. You could similarly frame every human behavior in terms of the biochemical reward system that accompanies the activity, and THAT is madness.
Second, even if you could effectively argue that people engage in religious behaviors for the feel good pay off that doesnt address the likelihood that many religious, spiritual people have varying levels of these chemicals or maybe even none at all in the case of dysfunction. How do those biological variables impqct the thesis that religion or spirituality only exist because of feel good chemicals in the brain.
I see it as a desperate attempt at explaining things away without realizing that its a snake eating itself, as all human behaviors could be similarly reduced to nothing more than animalistic basic primal urges which are encourages by neurochemical orgasms.
ThickStemz
Well-Known Member
If jesus didn't exist then how did st Paul stop roaming about killing early Christians, go blind then regain his sight the moment a priest of THE LORD put his hands on him?
If there was no Jesus then how come the muslims even believe He was real? They're all going to hell because they have been mislead by the adversary that Jesus didn't get it right. If He didn't exist, then the muslims wouldn't think he was wrong.
If there was no Jesus, then why did Philo of Alexandria mention Him, as the first born Son of God
Plus, you got Josephus saying he did 10 thousand miracles. Tacitus recorded his deeds.
Friend, Satan has you by the balls. I hope you get free.
If there was no Jesus then how come the muslims even believe He was real? They're all going to hell because they have been mislead by the adversary that Jesus didn't get it right. If He didn't exist, then the muslims wouldn't think he was wrong.
If there was no Jesus, then why did Philo of Alexandria mention Him, as the first born Son of God
Plus, you got Josephus saying he did 10 thousand miracles. Tacitus recorded his deeds.
Friend, Satan has you by the balls. I hope you get free.
