Jesus Myth & Why It Endures

[Dalek Supreme]

There's basically two ideas of thought on an historical Jesus. One being the Christian view in that the New Testament is an historical document free of error. The other is mainstream secular scholars saying the NT has kernals of truth, but who Jesus was (wandering Rabbi, or militant leader, and everything in between) is up for debate.

There's a third camp which is Jesus is entirely a myth. The "Mythicist" position is fringe, and racked with bad bad scholarship. Keep in mind that up till the 1970's the idea that the Biblical patriarchs being mythical was considered fringe, but today most scholars do not believe Moses, or Abraham was historical.

I have put together two sections (* & **). The historical (*) section shows how scant the evidence is for an historical Jesus, and that the evidence under critical analyses points to myth. The science (**) section shows the neurology, and psychology on why people cling onto irrational beliefs, and habits that's next to impossible to reason them out of.

There are many Pagan parallels that are misleading, but some are religious syncretism of Hellenistic Jews, and what the later Catholic Church integrated. Keep in mind that Christianity went through a long and strong filter, but some elements of it's origin made it through.

The first three links are for those that have an aversion to watching videos especially from Youtube. I do highly recommend at least watching the first 8 minutes of the fourth link which is a lecture by Dr. Richard Carrier. I also recommend watching the short clip by Dr. Robert Sapolsky which starts off the science section.

For those few that find this information interesting, and compelling? Please pass it on to like minds...Thank you

* Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

Jesus Myth Part II - Follow-up, Commentary, and Expansion

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_followup.htm

The Gospel of Mark as Reaction and Allegory

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/gospel_mark.htm

Dr. Richard Carrier: The Mythical Jesus

Mythmaking in the NT

Why the Gospels Are Myth

Acts as Historical Fiction

Dr. Robert M Price: The Jesus Question

New Testament Narrative as Old Testament Midrash

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_midrash1.htm

New Testament Interpolations & Forgeries

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/06/pauline-interpolations.html?m=1

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Legends2

http://depts.drew.edu/jhc/rp1cor15.html

The James that Paul met was the "Brother of the Lord" in a fictive kinship of all Baptized Christians. Paul was also differentiating James from a racist James that did not behave in a spiritual family.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=291478

Ancient Greek pottery ( 4th century BCE) depicting women performing a passion play for Dionysus (God of Wine). They are in ritual "Omophagia" consuming the flesh (pulp/skins), and blood (wine) of the God depicted on a Tropaion (Trophy). Starting off the annual festival priests put casks of water in the God's temple which turn into Wine the next day.

http://lost-history.com/images/vase1.jpg

Bible Buried Secrets

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qalTJzk4kO0

Who Was Moses (starts @ 10:20)

https://youtu.be/IybD2xzkhtc

**Praise Jesus "Serotonin" Christ & The Holy "Dopamine" Ghost!

Neurochemical mechanisms EVOLVED for the drive to gather resources for the perpetuation of the species that does not take account of our PRESENT COGNITION. The root force behind ADDICTIONS like GAMBLING & MISTAKEN as a DIVINE PRESENCE (imaginary friend) by some. We are PATTERN SEEKERS (to see that Lion in the tall Grass & discern which Berries made us sick), yearn for "WHAT FEELS GOOD", and when "MAYBE" is entered into the equation it has dynamic effects neurologicaly (our pitfall). Drugs like Cocaine, or Heroine release these REWARD neurochemicals, but thoughts like winning money, or John 3:16 is just as addictive. The release of the Holy "Dopamine" Ghost strengthens neural pathways which leads to CONFIRMATION & COGNITIVE BIASES (ever try to reason someone out of a bad habit?).

Google "Dopamine Reward System", "Dopamine in Relation to Addiction", "Dopamine Creativity", "Dopamine Release Sleep Deprivation", and "Dopamine Hypothesis".

Dr. Robert Sapolsky: Dopamine Jackpot (Science of Pleasure)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0

Dopamine's Role in Reward

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVoYpiiy7jg

SciShow: Chemistry of Addiction

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ukFjH9odsXw

SciShow: Why Am I Hallucinating

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sB9sTz_gyU

Sleep Paralysis & Phantom Intruders

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vIuHvl-Pc

Critical Thinking, Confirmation Bias, & You

https://youtu.be/CjWOP1aLEIs

SciShow: Science of Lying

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MX3Hu8loXTE

Russian Fox Experiments

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFGNQScRNY

Dr. Michael Shermer: The Believing Brain

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAwfv3HYGo

Bonus:

Law of Truly Large Numbers

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_truly_large_numbers

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

Jesus loves you.

 

[schnooby]

looks like alot of good stuff to wade through and i applaud your efforts......will have a look when i have some time......


just curious.....do you apply the same rigorous standards to you own beliefs and feelings about all of lifes experiences? if so, how does it feel to know that even your most hallowed and precious personal experiences can supposedly be explained by nothing more than chemicals in the brain and pattern seeking etc? does it not reduce your ability to enjoy the wonders and joys of life even a little bit?

 

[Hazy_Nights.DC]

The majority of people are just so dumb and blind following sickness..

 

[Dalek Supreme]

looks like alot of good stuff to wade through and i applaud your efforts......will have a look when i have some time......


just curious.....do you apply the same rigorous standards to you own beliefs and feelings about all of lifes experiences? if so, how does it feel to know that even your most hallowed and precious personal experiences can supposedly be explained by nothing more than chemicals in the brain and pattern seeking etc? does it not reduce your ability to enjoy the wonders and joys of life even a little bit?

Cool, and awesome question.

When I was a kid I believed in Lake Monsters. Then over time I saw not only the evidence did not fit, but most importantly "I wanted to believe" which was holding me back from seeing truth.

The Universe is mysterious as it is without things that are untrue. I rather know than believe.

Keep in mind that one can be too skeptical, but do not open your mind so much that it thinks like it fell out.

 

[Dalek Supreme]

Jesus loves you.

Thanks to Jesus's magic Blood, I can clean myself of an ancient curse brought on by a mud man, and a rib woman.

 

[schnooby]

Cool, and awesome question.

When I was a kid I believed in Lake Monsters. Then over time I saw not only the evidence did not fit, but most importantly "I wanted to believe" which was holding me back from seeing truth.

The Universe is mysterious as it is without things that are untrue. I rather know than believe.

Keep in mind that one can be too skeptical, but do not open your mind so much that it thinks like it fell out.

good points.

question. what is evidence? isnt the standard of what is considered evidence different for different people?


wanting to believe. Yes this is a potent influence on how one interprete evidence. And if that persons standards for evidence are low, then it becomes easier to make the so called evidence fit into their construction of reality.

i think i have seen many people in my life engage in this approach to making things fit, and not just spiritual people.

there are alot of good and important questions we need to ask ourselves in the search of truth.

First and perhaps most importantly, is there an ultimate truth or reality that can even be known or understood and is it within our ability to understand it, or understand enough of it to be able to say "now i know what is real".

Secondly, if there is a reality or truth that can be known, are we willing to submit to that reality even if it goes against the grain of who we are and what we want?

there are of course other good questions too, but those are just a couple that i often consider.

 

[New Age United]

good points.

question. what is evidence? isnt the standard of what is considered evidence different for different people?


wanting to believe. Yes this is a potent influence on how one interprete evidence. And if that persons standards for evidence are low, then it becomes easier to make the so called evidence fit into their construction of reality.

i think i have seen many people in my life engage in this approach to making things fit, and not just spiritual people.

there are alot of good and important questions we need to ask ourselves in the search of truth.

First and perhaps most importantly, is there an ultimate truth or reality that can even be known or understood and is it within our ability to understand it, or understand enough of it to be able to say "now i know what is real".

Secondly, if there is a reality or truth that can be known, are we willing to submit to that reality even if it goes against the grain of who we are and what we want?

there are of course other good questions too, but those are just a couple that i often consider.

Yes there is an ultimate reality that can only be grasped when you stop thinking and become directly aware of it, time is an illusion but the Earth is very Real, that is a good pointer to the truth, and yes there are many things that are true about this reality both objective and subjective truths which can only be grasped and understood by the mind.

Yes I myself have surrendered to reality, the truth, what is. You may find that your ego does not want to surrender and maybe even you often find yourself resisting the truth and this is causing unnecessary suffering for you. There is a way out of suffering but there are 2 things you must accept and surrender to first, 1. The truth ei my loved one has just died 2. That you are in fact suffering. Facing the truth is always more empowering then resisting it.

 

[bird mcbride]

I have learned that nothing lasts forever...except death.

 

[Tektek]

Cool, and awesome question.

When I was a kid I believed in Lake Monsters. Then over time I saw not only the evidence did not fit, but most importantly "I wanted to believe" which was holding me back from seeing truth.

The Universe is mysterious as it is without things that are untrue. I rather know than believe.

Keep in mind that one can be too skeptical, but do not open your mind so much that it thinks like it fell out.

A duality. Consciousness is chemical, subjective experience is our reality.
CSNY rocks my neurons, tweaks my hormones, awesome.

Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Ohio 1970 Kent State University link works?

 

[Tektek]

my 2 cents
Religion is a tool the ruling class uses to control the ignorant masses, always has been.
Ug, ug ug ug. sun not come back unless you give me 3 bananas.
BE AFRAID of the unknown.

Any weird/spiritual/ Don Juan stuff is human potential. Go for it.
rock my neurons, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Almost Cut My Hair link work?

 

[New Age United]

I have learned that nothing lasts forever...except death.

All things come and go but the Light remains Eternal, that is another good pointer to the truth. Words are only pointers to the truth, you are the Light, Awareness, Unwavering, not fleeting, you will last just as long as death, Eternity, there is no time, it literally does not exist.

 

[Dalek Supreme]

good points.

question. what is evidence? isnt the standard of what is considered evidence different for different people?


wanting to believe. Yes this is a potent influence on how one interprete evidence. And if that persons standards for evidence are low, then it becomes easier to make the so called evidence fit into their construction of reality.

i think i have seen many people in my life engage in this approach to making things fit, and not just spiritual people.

there are alot of good and important questions we need to ask ourselves in the search of truth.

First and perhaps most importantly, is there an ultimate truth or reality that can even be known or understood and is it within our ability to understand it, or understand enough of it to be able to say "now i know what is real".

Secondly, if there is a reality or truth that can be known, are we willing to submit to that reality even if it goes against the grain of who we are and what we want?

there are of course other good questions too, but those are just a couple that i often consider.

Evidence: For me there's personal evidence, but I do not go around stating it as fact. I cannot prove which I cannot provide evidence of, meanwhile this is not a barrier to many people. That's not how science works which is a good thing.

Deeper reality: Yes. I cannot wrap my head around "Quantum Entanglement" (Einstein's spooky action from a distance). There's one fact no matter what and that is we are all evolved mutated crazy Apes. Next time someone says they are "spiritual", offer to remove their Frontal Lobe, and see how spiritual they are afterwards.

I hope people take the time to check out either section, or both instead of making this thread about philosophy.

 

[Dalek Supreme]

Here is just one example how the Gospel of Mark is spiritual allegory, and not a recording of history. Keep in mind the events leading up to, and the execution it's self goes against Judaic law. Also there is no such thing in the historical record of a prisoner exchange ritual especially for an insurrectionist such as Barabbas.

Looking at Leviticus we see the "ScapeGoat" ritual using two Goats. One Goat is set free into the wilderness. The other Goat is offered up as a Sin offering.

Leviticus 16:7-10

"7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness."

Jesus after facing Pilate is offered by him to be released. Instead of Jesus (Son of God) being released, Barabbas (Son the Father) is released, and Jesus is sacrificed.

Mark 15:6-15

"6 Now at that feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired.

7 And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection.

8 And the multitude crying aloud began to desire him to do as he had ever done unto them.

9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.

11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.

12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?

13 And they cried out again, Crucify him.

14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

15 And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Barabbas

 

[New Age United]

Evidence: For me there's personal evidence, but I do not go around stating it as fact. I cannot prove which I cannot provide evidence of, meanwhile this is not a barrier to many people. That's not how science works which is a good thing.

Deeper reality: Yes. I cannot wrap my head around "Quantum Entanglement" (Einstein's spooky action from a distance). There's one fact no matter what and that is we are all evolved mutated crazy Apes. Next time someone says they are "spiritual", offer to remove their Frontal Lobe, and see how spiritual they are afterwards.

I hope people take the time to check out either section, or both instead of making this thread about philosophy.

I respect that bro, I'll try as hard as possible to keep my own philosophy out of it and stick to basic facts. I'm very interested in the thread and when I get some time I will go through the material and respond if I have an opinion.

 

[New Age United]

Evidence: For me there's personal evidence, but I do not go around stating it as fact. I cannot prove which I cannot provide evidence of, meanwhile this is not a barrier to many people. That's not how science works which is a good thing.

Deeper reality: Yes. I cannot wrap my head around "Quantum Entanglement" (Einstein's spooky action from a distance). There's one fact no matter what and that is we are all evolved mutated crazy Apes. Next time someone says they are "spiritual", offer to remove their Frontal Lobe, and see how spiritual they are afterwards.

I hope people take the time to check out either section, or both instead of making this thread about philosophy.

And I am one of those spiritual people, if you were to remove my frontal lobe you would be removing my ego, if you could save me the time I would probably go for it lol!!!!!

 

[LordRalh3]

honestly i think it's said best in the good book (not the bible but Terry Goodkind's Faith of the Fallen)

this: what exists exists; what is is. From this irreducible, bedrock principle, all knowledge is built. This is the foundation from which life is embraced. Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality–it is our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see.



then the second bit

Faith and feelings are the warm marrow of evil. Unlike reason, faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusion, any whim. They are virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched.

Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason’s light.

Reason is the very substance of truth itself. The glory that is life is wholly embraced through reason. In rejecting it, in rejecting reason, one embraces death.




People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.


terry goodkind

 

[New Age United]

Here is just one example how the Gospel of Mark is spiritual allegory, and not a recording of history. Keep in mind the events leading up to, and the execution it's self goes against Judaic law. Also there is no such thing in the historical record of a prisoner exchange ritual especially for an insurrectionist such as Barabbas.

Looking at Leviticus we see the "ScapeGoat" ritual using two Goats. One Goat is set free into the wilderness. The other Goat is offered up as a Sin offering.

Leviticus 16:7-10

"7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness."

Jesus after facing Pilate is offered by him to be released. Instead of Jesus (Son of God) being released, Barabbas (Son the Father) is released, and Jesus is sacrificed.

Mark 15:6-15

"6 Now at that feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired.

7 And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection.

8 And the multitude crying aloud began to desire him to do as he had ever done unto them.

9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.

11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.

12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?

13 And they cried out again, Crucify him.

14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

15 And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Barabbas

Yes the pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate - Rolling Stones. The Jews may have possibly turned Jesus in but ultimately it is the Romans that crucified him, imagine that, the Roman Emperor Constantine has the bible compiled and in it the Jews are blamed for the death of Christ and the Holy Roman Empire is formed the very ones that crucified Jesus they just told the masses a different story and the easily persuaded masses followed suit without question.

"You were given a sword and the heart of a lion; I was given words to persuade the minds of men, we all play with the gifts the gods have given us" the illiad

The old and new testament are full of sorcery, but much wisdom and truth lie therein.

 

[New Age United]

Thank you @sunni or @GreatwhiteNorth I thought I was being reasonable.

 

[sunni]

Thank you @sunni or @GreatwhiteNorth I thought I was being reasonable.

I haven't a clue what you are speaking of