Why America’s Struggling Middle Class Has Businesses Scared

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
"Introduction and summary

The decline of the U.S. middle class has corporate America and Wall Street scared.
And nobody is more frightened than America’s biggest retailers.

Five years after the 2001 recession ended, real retail spending per person had
climbed 7 percent above its prerecession level. More than five years after the end
of the Great Recession—August 2014—retail spending per person had finally
reached its prerecession level.

Former Walmart U.S. CEO Bill Simon, whose company had seen consumer traffic
drop for six straight quarters and same-store sales drop for five quarters, explained
in July 2014 that “we’ve reached a point where it’s not getting any better but it’s
not getting any worse—at least for the middle (class) and down.” Kip Tindell,
CEO of the Container Store, put retailers’ feelings best when he said, “consistent
with so many of our fellow retailers, we are experiencing a retail ‘funk.’”

The culprit is obvious: low wage and income growth for the middle class. Median
household income in 2013 stood 8 percentage points below its 2007 prerecession
level.4 The simple fact of the matter is that when households do not have money,
retailers do not have customers. The failure of incomes to keep up with the growing
cost of college, child care, and other middle-class staples leaves even less money for
retail spending. A previous analysis by the Center for American Progress shows that
this so-called “middle-class squeeze”—stagnant incomes and the growing cost of
middle-class security—leaves the median married couple with two kids with $5,500
less to spend annually on food, clothes, and other essentials that retailers sell.


Or, as officials of J.C. Penney—whose sales fell 9 percent in 2013—put it when
listing the risks to its stock value: “the moderate income consumer, which is our
core customer, has been under economic pressure for the past several years.”

Moreover, retail spending—which includes spending on everything from clothing
to groceries to dining out—has broad implications for the entire economy since
it accounts for a large fraction of consumer spending, which itself makes up 70
percent of U.S. gross domestic product, or GDP.

This report gathers new evidence to show that middle-class weakness and stagnant
wage growth are holding the economy back. We use the financial statements,
known as 10-Ks—the annual report required by the Securities and Exchange
Commission, or SEC—of the top 100 retailers in America and words of some of
Wall Street’s top economists to underscore the point.

Time and again, America’s leading corporations warn investors that “decreased
levels of consumer spending” (Kohl’s), “a renewed decline in consumer-spending
levels” (Sears), and “decreased salaries and wages” (Burger King) could have a
huge negative impact on their financial performance. The corporate consensus is
clear: It is this cycle of stagnation—low wages, leading to weak demand, leading to
slow growth, leading back to low wages—that is hurting companies, their consumers,
and the U.S. economy at large.


This report finds that:

• Eighty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite weak consumer spending
as a risk factor to their stock price.

• Sixty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite falling or flat incomes as
risks. Looking just at companies that were publicly held in 2006, the percent
listing consumers’ incomes as a risk factor has doubled since that year. A majority
of retailers—57 percent—cite rising energy, health care, housing, and other
essential costs as risks, showing the middle-class squeeze of rising costs and
stagnant incomes.

• Wall Street economists are even more explicit about the risk that low wages pose
to the economy, arguing that they drive low demand and high unemployment.

• Retailers could improve their profits by embracing a middle-class-growthoriented
agenda instead of spending their political energy on preventing policies
that increase wages. Policies such as a minimum-wage increase could provide
the perfect mechanism for coordinating wage growth that could benefit the
entire retail sector by fueling more consumer spending."


"The evidence assembled in this report directly repudiates “trickle-down economics”—
the idea that the only way to produce economic growth is to redistribute
money to the rich, who will create jobs for everyone else. Conservative
politicians, lobbyists, and commentators may still be stuck in the trickle-down
mindset of the 1980s, but corporate America and the Wall Street analysts who
closely follow it know better.


While it may at first seem obvious that low consumer demand impedes growth,
conservative think tanks and other believers in trickle-down economics ignore the
evidence. Stephen Moore, chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, approvingly
quotes Arthur Laffer, the father of trickle-down economics, who said, “All
economic problems are about removing impediments to supply, not demand.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s “Jobs, Growth, and Opportunity Agenda” report
similarly focuses on “expanding trade, producing more domestic energy, improving
infrastructure, modernizing the regulatory process, making essential changes
to entitlements, fixing the flaws in Obamacare, curbing lawsuit abuse, and advancing
American innovation by protecting intellectual property…revitalizing capital
markets, passing immigration reform, and improving education and training, which
will expand opportunity, address inequality, and create jobs.” At the same time, it
opposes any measures “that would automatically increase labor costs.” There is literally
no policy in the agenda focused on immediately increasing aggregate demand
and consumer spending other than perhaps the jobs created by infrastructure
improvements and higher wages produced by immigration reform.

If the Heritage Foundation, the U.S. Chamber, and other proponents of trickledown
economics refuse to believe the overwhelming academic evidence that
clearly shows low consumer spending and income growth are holding the
economy back, they should listen to corporate America and Wall Street when
they say that a consumer base with large, growing discretionary incomes—in
other words, a strong middle class—is the vital ingredient for job growth and a
strong economy. Or, as Ellen Zentner, executive director and senior economist
at Morgan Stanley, explained, “faster employment and wage growth for those at
the bottom, were it to have staying power, would help lift consumer spending,
the biggest part of the economy.


https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/CorporateMiddleOut_report3.pdf


This entire report is worth checking out
 
"If the Heritage Foundation, the U.S. Chamber, and other proponents of trickledown
economics
refuse to believe the overwhelming academic evidence that
clearly shows low consumer spending and income growth are holding the
economy back,
they should listen to corporate America and Wall Street when
they say that a consumer base with large, growing discretionary incomes—in
other words, a strong middle class—is the vital ingredient for job growth and a
strong economy."

Do you think it's that the refuse to believe, or that they know but they honestly don't care? Because I'm inclined to believe the latter. These aren't uninformed people that we're talking about here. They are (in many cases) brilliant economists, in a numbers based business, which doesn't leave much room for ambiguity. Either the shit works or it doesn't. This isn't theoretical, these policies have been tried, and they've failed miserably. I refuse to believe that they're honestly just wrong. They know, and that is obviously the most terrifying thing about it.
 
"If the Heritage Foundation, the U.S. Chamber, and other proponents of trickledown
economics
refuse to believe the overwhelming academic evidence that
clearly shows low consumer spending and income growth are holding the
economy back,
they should listen to corporate America and Wall Street when
they say that a consumer base with large, growing discretionary incomes—in
other words, a strong middle class—is the vital ingredient for job growth and a
strong economy."

Do you think it's that the refuse to believe, or that they know but they honestly don't care? Because I'm inclined to believe the latter. These aren't uninformed people that we're talking about here. They are (in many cases) brilliant economists, in a numbers based business, which doesn't leave much room for ambiguity. Either the shit works or it doesn't. This isn't theoretical, these policies have been tried, and they've failed miserably. I refuse to believe that they're honestly just wrong. They know, and that is obviously the most terrifying thing about it.
I think it's very much like the tobacco/lung cancer connection or the anthropogenic climate change argument; of course they know, they've put all their eggs in one basket in the way of their livelihood and it makes certain people obscene amounts of wealth so they have a lot to lose if it all unravels. The con seems to be keeping the underlings ignorant which is exactly what you see represented here (and I'm sure they'll be along shortly to disagree with the conclusion this report reached, always with such well thought out reasoned replies I might add /s). But like you said, we have metrics by which to measure the successes and failures of political policies we implement and denying objective data in favor of personal beliefs/feelings is a very short-sighted and stupid thing to do just to make intangible political points when real people are facing real problems because a pragmatic compromise can't be reached.
 
American manufacturers and retailers both shot themselves in the foot in the apparently blind pursuit of profit. The idea to manufacture product in low cost countries seemed like a win-win situation, in that profit would increase, and the product provided could be cheaper for the consumer. Every body wins right? But that idea ignores supply and demand, as the demand is eliminated by loss of the local manufacturing base, that supplied the income needed for anyone to buy anything. The stupid bastards eliminated their consumer base by streamlining which is a fancy term to fire people and shift their jobs to Calcutta, or anywhere else labor costs $8 per day. The Americans have ruined capitalism, as Marx foretold, and the state of the American middle class in the US as it stands today , is the future. We are fucked
 
Last edited:
"If the Heritage Foundation, the U.S. Chamber, and other proponents of trickledown
economics
refuse to believe the overwhelming academic evidence that
clearly shows low consumer spending and income growth are holding the
economy back,
they should listen to corporate America and Wall Street when
they say that a consumer base with large, growing discretionary incomes—in
other words, a strong middle class—is the vital ingredient for job growth and a
strong economy."

Do you think it's that the refuse to believe, or that they know but they honestly don't care? Because I'm inclined to believe the latter. These aren't uninformed people that we're talking about here. They are (in many cases) brilliant economists, in a numbers based business, which doesn't leave much room for ambiguity. Either the shit works or it doesn't. This isn't theoretical, these policies have been tried, and they've failed miserably. I refuse to believe that they're honestly just wrong. They know, and that is obviously the most terrifying thing about it.

They know and they push it because they profit directly from it.
 
Trickle down works. And it is still working. It is just that currently thanks to NAFTA and free trade with China the wealth is trickling all the way down to China and other places.

Consider, the argument was always the rich will buy things that require manufacturing and services...

Well that is still going on. It's just that one manufacturer in an industry takes the step to relocate to a place with almost slave labor, all of their competitors are required to follow suit or be severely undercut in the market.

Our government gives incentives for this behavior and offers no deterrent to it. While both parties have done things to contribute to this, Clinton signed the most deviating piece of this into law, the giant sucking noise Ross Perrot called it in the 1992 election.

It's really quite simple. You want someone to fix this you might ought to listen to Trump. When Nabisco announced they would start making cookies overseas trump called for a boycott.
 
Trickle down works. And it is still working. It is just that currently thanks to NAFTA and free trade with China the wealth is trickling all the way down to China and other places.

Consider, the argument was always the rich will buy things that require manufacturing and services...

Well that is still going on. It's just that one manufacturer in an industry takes the step to relocate to a place with almost slave labor, all of their competitors are required to follow suit or be severely undercut in the market.

Our government gives incentives for this behavior and offers no deterrent to it. While both parties have done things to contribute to this, Clinton signed the most deviating piece of this into law, the giant sucking noise Ross Perrot called it in the 1992 election.

It's really quite simple. You want someone to fix this you might ought to listen to Trump. When Nabisco announced they would start making cookies overseas trump called for a boycott.
My head hurts.
 
My head hurts.
It makes perfect sense. Trickle down was developed by the Chicago school of economics. Or at least they promoted it in the 60s 70s and so... Milton freedman.

It reached its zenith with Reagan and is a working model provided society doesn't extend the trickle beyond its borders.

So ask yourself, who put the trickle spigot in Beijing instead of Flint Michigan?
 
It makes perfect sense. Trickle down was developed by the Chicago school of economics. Or at least they promoted it in the 60s 70s and so... Milton freedman.

It reached its zenith with Reagan and is a working model provided society doesn't extend the trickle beyond its borders.

So ask yourself, who put the trickle spigot in Beijing instead of Flint Michigan?

 
Well, there are a lot of other things that have changed too. The rise of japan, their fall. .rise of china.

Free trade did more to do that than anything else. We should freely trade with counties like the UK or EU. Not third world countries with peasants.

Nixon and carter opened up China.
 
Trickle down works. And it is still working. It is just that currently thanks to NAFTA and free trade with China the wealth is trickling all the way down to China and other places.

Consider, the argument was always the rich will buy things that require manufacturing and services...

Well that is still going on. It's just that one manufacturer in an industry takes the step to relocate to a place with almost slave labor, all of their competitors are required to follow suit or be severely undercut in the market.

Our government gives incentives for this behavior and offers no deterrent to it. While both parties have done things to contribute to this, Clinton signed the most deviating piece of this into law, the giant sucking noise Ross Perrot called it in the 1992 election.

It's really quite simple. You want someone to fix this you might ought to listen to Trump. When Nabisco announced they would start making cookies overseas trump called for a boycott.
Wasn't the idea that through low taxes and relaxed regulations, corporations would be allowed to expand and grow the economy unmolested and with minimal government interference, and through that expansion all Americans would prosper? "If the whole pie grows, everybody gets a bigger share!" kind of idea? Because that's certainly what everybody was led to believe by the economic advisors..

Now we have 35 years of solid data that shows without a doubt that the rich got much richer while the poor and middle class stagnated or got poorer. We knew the Trickle-Down policy was bad in the gilded age when they called it "Horse and Sparrow" economics, "i.e., if you feed horses enough oats, it will pass through their digestive systems and their droppings will provide enough leftover oats to feed the sparrows. Regrettably, it's a pretty inefficient way to feed sparrows.".

Conversely, we know what does work; strong economic growth in consumer economies are dependent upon a strong middle class. This is the only thing that makes sense. 80% of our economy is based on the ability of people to make and sell products and services. If the majority of citizens inside the society don't have the ability to buy said goods or services, then nothing get's sold. The wealthy are doing just fine, they have plenty of money, the problem is there aren't enough of them buying enough goods to run that 80% of our economy that middle America depends on. Nick Hanauer gave a TEDTalk about this problem, I think it's worth checking out:


 
"Introduction and summary

The decline of the U.S. middle class has corporate America and Wall Street scared.
And nobody is more frightened than America’s biggest retailers.

Five years after the 2001 recession ended, real retail spending per person had
climbed 7 percent above its prerecession level. More than five years after the end
of the Great Recession—August 2014—retail spending per person had finally
reached its prerecession level.

Former Walmart U.S. CEO Bill Simon, whose company had seen consumer traffic
drop for six straight quarters and same-store sales drop for five quarters, explained
in July 2014 that “we’ve reached a point where it’s not getting any better but it’s
not getting any worse—at least for the middle (class) and down.” Kip Tindell,
CEO of the Container Store, put retailers’ feelings best when he said, “consistent
with so many of our fellow retailers, we are experiencing a retail ‘funk.’”

The culprit is obvious: low wage and income growth for the middle class. Median
household income in 2013 stood 8 percentage points below its 2007 prerecession
level.4 The simple fact of the matter is that when households do not have money,
retailers do not have customers. The failure of incomes to keep up with the growing
cost of college, child care, and other middle-class staples leaves even less money for
retail spending. A previous analysis by the Center for American Progress shows that
this so-called “middle-class squeeze”—stagnant incomes and the growing cost of
middle-class security—leaves the median married couple with two kids with $5,500
less to spend annually on food, clothes, and other essentials that retailers sell.


Or, as officials of J.C. Penney—whose sales fell 9 percent in 2013—put it when
listing the risks to its stock value: “the moderate income consumer, which is our
core customer, has been under economic pressure for the past several years.”

Moreover, retail spending—which includes spending on everything from clothing
to groceries to dining out—has broad implications for the entire economy since
it accounts for a large fraction of consumer spending, which itself makes up 70
percent of U.S. gross domestic product, or GDP.

This report gathers new evidence to show that middle-class weakness and stagnant
wage growth are holding the economy back. We use the financial statements,
known as 10-Ks—the annual report required by the Securities and Exchange
Commission, or SEC—of the top 100 retailers in America and words of some of
Wall Street’s top economists to underscore the point.

Time and again, America’s leading corporations warn investors that “decreased
levels of consumer spending” (Kohl’s), “a renewed decline in consumer-spending
levels” (Sears), and “decreased salaries and wages” (Burger King) could have a
huge negative impact on their financial performance. The corporate consensus is
clear: It is this cycle of stagnation—low wages, leading to weak demand, leading to
slow growth, leading back to low wages—that is hurting companies, their consumers,
and the U.S. economy at large.


This report finds that:

• Eighty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite weak consumer spending
as a risk factor to their stock price.

• Sixty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite falling or flat incomes as
risks. Looking just at companies that were publicly held in 2006, the percent
listing consumers’ incomes as a risk factor has doubled since that year. A majority
of retailers—57 percent—cite rising energy, health care, housing, and other
essential costs as risks, showing the middle-class squeeze of rising costs and
stagnant incomes.

• Wall Street economists are even more explicit about the risk that low wages pose
to the economy, arguing that they drive low demand and high unemployment.

• Retailers could improve their profits by embracing a middle-class-growthoriented
agenda instead of spending their political energy on preventing policies
that increase wages. Policies such as a minimum-wage increase could provide
the perfect mechanism for coordinating wage growth that could benefit the
entire retail sector by fueling more consumer spending."


"The evidence assembled in this report directly repudiates “trickle-down economics”—
the idea that the only way to produce economic growth is to redistribute
money to the rich, who will create jobs for everyone else. Conservative
politicians, lobbyists, and commentators may still be stuck in the trickle-down
mindset of the 1980s, but corporate America and the Wall Street analysts who
closely follow it know better.


While it may at first seem obvious that low consumer demand impedes growth,
conservative think tanks and other believers in trickle-down economics ignore the
evidence. Stephen Moore, chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, approvingly
quotes Arthur Laffer, the father of trickle-down economics, who said, “All
economic problems are about removing impediments to supply, not demand.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s “Jobs, Growth, and Opportunity Agenda” report
similarly focuses on “expanding trade, producing more domestic energy, improving
infrastructure, modernizing the regulatory process, making essential changes
to entitlements, fixing the flaws in Obamacare, curbing lawsuit abuse, and advancing
American innovation by protecting intellectual property…revitalizing capital
markets, passing immigration reform, and improving education and training, which
will expand opportunity, address inequality, and create jobs.” At the same time, it
opposes any measures “that would automatically increase labor costs.” There is literally
no policy in the agenda focused on immediately increasing aggregate demand
and consumer spending other than perhaps the jobs created by infrastructure
improvements and higher wages produced by immigration reform.

If the Heritage Foundation, the U.S. Chamber, and other proponents of trickledown
economics refuse to believe the overwhelming academic evidence that
clearly shows low consumer spending and income growth are holding the
economy back, they should listen to corporate America and Wall Street when
they say that a consumer base with large, growing discretionary incomes—in
other words, a strong middle class—is the vital ingredient for job growth and a
strong economy. Or, as Ellen Zentner, executive director and senior economist
at Morgan Stanley, explained, “faster employment and wage growth for those at
the bottom, were it to have staying power, would help lift consumer spending,
the biggest part of the economy.


https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/CorporateMiddleOut_report3.pdf


This entire report is worth checking out


"analysis by the Center for American Progress"

BWAHAHAHAHA!

So, a gaggle of liberal halfwits decided they're right? Shocking!

L - freaking O - L

Next you'll be telling us how the hacks at MSNBC weigh in on the subject as further evidence. You can't possibly be this stupid.
 
"analysis by the Center for American Progress"

BWAHAHAHAHA!

So, a gaggle of liberal halfwits decided they're right? Shocking!

L - freaking O - L

Next you'll be telling us how the hacks at MSNBC weigh in on the subject as further evidence. You can't possibly be this stupid.
"• Eighty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite weak consumer spending
as a risk factor to their stock price.

• Sixty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite falling or flat incomes as
risks. Looking just at companies that were publicly held in 2006, the percent
listing consumers’ incomes as a risk factor has doubled since that year. A majority
of retailers—57 percent—cite rising energy, health care, housing, and other
essential costs as risks, showing the middle-class squeeze of rising costs and
stagnant incomes.

• Wall Street economists are even more explicit about the risk that low wages pose
to the economy, arguing that they drive low demand and high unemployment.

• Retailers could improve their profits by embracing a middle-class-growthoriented
agenda instead of spending their political energy on preventing policies
that increase wages. Policies such as a minimum-wage increase could provide
the perfect mechanism for coordinating wage growth that could benefit the
entire retail sector by fueling more consumer spending."

Can you refute any of those claims?
 
"• Eighty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite weak consumer spending
as a risk factor to their stock price.

• Sixty-eight percent of the top 100 U.S. retailers cite falling or flat incomes as
risks. Looking just at companies that were publicly held in 2006, the percent
listing consumers’ incomes as a risk factor has doubled since that year. A majority
of retailers—57 percent—cite rising energy, health care, housing, and other
essential costs as risks, showing the middle-class squeeze of rising costs and
stagnant incomes.

• Wall Street economists are even more explicit about the risk that low wages pose
to the economy, arguing that they drive low demand and high unemployment.

• Retailers could improve their profits by embracing a middle-class-growthoriented
agenda instead of spending their political energy on preventing policies
that increase wages. Policies such as a minimum-wage increase could provide
the perfect mechanism for coordinating wage growth that could benefit the
entire retail sector by fueling more consumer spending."

Can you refute any of those claims?

I refute the underlying cause for the first three and completely reject the fourth, which is nothing more than horseshit opinion.
 
Sure thing. I refute them, needing nothing more than the source. Just like you do all the time. (Mic drop)
OK, then you're saying you believe that

-weak consumer spending isn't a risk factor to stock prices
-falling or flat incomes increase consumer spending and rising prices increases the amount of disposable income people have
-Low wages drive high demand and low unemployment
 
OK, then you're saying you believe that

-weak consumer spending isn't a risk factor to stock prices
-falling or flat incomes increase consumer spending and rising prices increases the amount of disposable income people have
-Low wages drive high demand and low unemployment

Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying, exactly. You nailed it. It's totally not about the cause of those symptoms...totally.

It's totally the fault of Conservative political philosophy that hasn't been adhered to since the 30's...totally.
 
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