Will LED lights ever....

[grouch]

You dont understand, efficiency tells you how much LIGHT PER WATT you get from a light source. Its like trying to decide which car will win a race with out knowing what engine each car has. Efficiency is horsepower not mpg

 

[Yodaweed]

Efficiency is irrelevant. Results are.

But to play the math game... suppose 4 pounds is the absolute max that can be yielded from strain X in a 5x9 space and that such can be done with 2 x 1000w HIDs. Now what would it take with quality LEDs to get that same 4 lbs??

That is all i am asking. Efficiency is irrelevant to me. I want the 4 lbs, not pennies saved on electricity.

Why cant i get a straight answer on this question???

I think the biggest question you should be asking is how long will it take to get a return on investment on the LED startup cost, they are very expensive for the top of the line and go out of date quickly similar to computer parts, so you gotta be willing to spend a lot and it might not pay off and you could be left with old outdated equipment 2-3 years from now.

 

[grouch]

I think the biggest question you should be asking is how long will it take to get a return on investment on the LED startup cost, they are very expensive for the top of the line and go out of date quickly similar to computer parts, so you gotta be willing to spend a lot and it might not pay off and you could be left with old outdated equipment 2-3 years from now.

Out of date leds will still perfrom the same as they did the day they were bought. Cant say that about an hps bulb

 

[Gquebed]

You dont understand, efficiency tells you how much LIGHT PER WATT you get from a light source. Its like trying to decide which car will win a race with out knowing what engine each car has. Efficiency is horsepower not mpg

No i dont understand. And i dont need to. What i want to know is...as stated....

 

[Gquebed]

I think the biggest question you should be asking is how long will it take to get a return on investment on the LED startup cost, they are very expensive for the top of the line and go out of date quickly similar to computer parts, so you gotta be willing to spend a lot and it might not pay off and you could be left with old outdated equipment 2-3 years from now.

Indeed. But if the lights have the longevity that is claimed then whatever the cost is ...there will be time to recover them...

But at this point all i want is a simple answer toba very simple question. But i am starting to suspect nobody wants to offer it because it will undo "efriciency" argument...i guess...

 

[HockeyBeard]

True.

But i dont care to know it right now. I have other research to do to improve my growing... when i get to a point of growing skill that requires that knowledge i will make the effort..

Hang on a second, let me get this straight... You come in here asking if LED will ever out do the HPS. Then you claim that the numbers DIRECTLY RELATED to determining if the LED will be able to go toe to toe with HPS aren't anything that you're willing to research or learn at this time? So, you just came here to get other people to do your homework for you? Come on bro...

 

[grouch]

No i dont understand. And i dont need to. What i want to know is...as stated....

600W hid AFTER LOSS IS MAYBE 28% EFFICIENT at best. 168 PAR watts.

600w of CXB3590 @ 56% efficiency (common and cheapest option) is 303 PAR watts after loss. Most likely, you can double your HID harvest watt for watt. 300w of CXB3590 should be as good if not better than 600w HPS.

 

[HockeyBeard]

There is no such thing as a watt for watt equivalent from HPS to LED. It depends on the fixture, design, and parts. I could build a mono panel that would draw a lot of watts, but not have a great footprint in regards to PPFD outside the initial 2x2. On the other hand, I could use COB LED and space them so I've got a consistent footprint over a 4x4 with PPFD numbers that rival the hotspot of a 1k HPS. That means, depending on training techniques, I'm going to outproduce that HPS.

 

[a mongo frog]

Efficiency is irrelevant. Results are.

But to play the math game... suppose 4 pounds is the absolute max that can be yielded from strain X in a 5x9 space and that such can be done with 2 x 1000w HIDs. Now what would it take with quality LEDs to get that same 4 lbs??

That is all i am asking. Efficiency is irrelevant to me. I want the 4 lbs, not pennies saved on electricity.

Why cant i get a straight answer on this question???

From what I've researched on this site I'm thinking 800 watts of cob led can do 2 pounds. This could be on average strains though I'm still unsure. Maybe wouldn't do it on a svf or fire og.

 

[HockeyBeard]

From what I've researched on this site I'm thinking 800 watts of cob led can do 2 pounds. This could be on average strains though I'm still unsure. Maybe wouldn't do it on a svf or fire og.

This is strain, grower, environment, training technique, and nutrient dependent. Let's not be dense. You can't, for a single second, assume two different growers in different rooms, using different methods, aren't going to have different results. Canopy management, organic/synthetic, grow medium, veg time, so many factors play into this.

To put it all on the light is wishing for magic beans.

 

[Stephenj37826]

that is only 450 w[9 x 50?] and is covering what sq footage?

i am incredulous

It's actual draw is ~ 500 499 on his meter and his area is a 4x4 tent.

 

[a mongo frog]

This is strain, grower, environment, training technique, and nutrient dependent. Let's not be dense. You can't, for a single second, assume two different growers in different rooms, using different methods, aren't going to have different results. Canopy management, organic/synthetic, grow medium, veg time, so many factors play into this.

To put it all on the light is wishing for magic beans.

Totally, and even veg times. The exact same thing is true about gavitas or any other DE. Your not going to magically get a gavita plug it in and hit 2+ pounds if your shit aint right.

 

[Gquebed]

Hang on a second, let me get this straight... You come in here asking if LED will ever out do the HPS. Then you claim that the numbers DIRECTLY RELATED to determining if the LED will be able to go toe to toe with HPS aren't anything that you're willing to research or learn at this time? So, you just came here to get other people to do your homework for you? Come on bro...

Do you know every detail of how your samrt phone works? Do you care?

Also...never asked for details of specifics...merely whether or not it is possible...thats all...

 

[Rahz]

But at this point all i want is a simple answer toba very simple question. But i am starting to suspect nobody wants to offer it because it will undo "efriciency" argument...i guess...

Effeciency x output watts = PAR watts. Are you talking about 40% efficient emitters (Vero 29 @ 2.1 amps) or 50% emitters (CXB3590 @ 2.1 amps) or 56% efficient emitters (CXB3590 @ 1.4 amps) or 65% efficient emitters (CXB3590 @ .7 amps)?

There is no simple answer to the question "how many watts does it take to replace 600W HPS?". If you ad the qualifyer "quality LED" that narrows it down a little, but just means over 40% efficient at this time.

If you rephrase your question to a specific product with known part numbers you can get a pretty good estimate. If you just want to know how many watts from a quality LED it will take to replace a 600w HPS the answer is between 300 and 450 watts.

 

[Djloud]

just google it, 6x4 standard coverage area for a DE 1000 watt gavita....you guys are clueless why do I gotta do all the work for you to explain everything do a little research or get your hands on some of these lights and run them. I'm done explaining things to the blind and deaf.

Yes the 1000 de will cover a 4×6

 

[a mongo frog]

There is no such thing as a watt for watt equivalent from HPS to LED. It depends on the fixture, design, and parts. I could build a mono panel that would draw a lot of watts, but not have a great footprint in regards to PPFD outside the initial 2x2. On the other hand, I could use COB LED and space them so I've got a consistent footprint over a 4x4 with PPFD numbers that rival the hotspot of a 1k HPS. That means, depending on training techniques, I'm going to outproduce that HPS.

But why are you saying "depending on training techniques"? Thats the part that throwing me off about the cobs. If the ppfd is there wouldn't it be same or better regardless if you trained the plants or not?

 

[Gquebed]

Totally, and even veg times. The exact same thing is true about gavitas or any other DE. Your not going to magically get a gavita plug it in and hit 2+ pounds if your shit aint right.

Exactly.

 

[HockeyBeard]

No, but I'm not out asking about the specifics of the processor if I don't care to take notes, either.

False equivalence, bruh.

Go back and read my reply a couple messages back. There is no such thing as a watt to watt equivalent due to efficiency and parts used from lamp to lamp. Commercial lamps are using sub par parts for the most part. Use top quality parts, and with the same watts, you'll massively outperform it. You can't use watts as your guide. You HAVE to learn how those numbers apply to the quality. If you don't care to learn them, don't ask other people to teach it to you. This forum is full of priceless data on the topic. Members here have researched tirelessly. It'd behoove you to do your due diligence instead of asking such a broad question and not being pleased with the replies.

 

[HockeyBeard]

But why are you saying "depending on training techniques"? Thats the part that throwing me off about the cobs. If the ppfd is there wouldn't it be same or better regardless if you trained the plants or not?

A SCROG is going to do better than a main cola dominant plant, probably. The more you can spread out your canopy to take advantage of the even footprint at 36 inches, the better. If you let a plant grow up, the lower stuff isn't going to get that same PPFD. But if I mainline and SCROG, all colas are spread and the same height. Thus, it will probably do better than letting it go untrained.

What I mean, is that you can't do the same thing you'd do if you were throwing the plant under a Gavitas. You're growing tall plants with those. With LED, you want to take advantage of the even PAR distribution by spreading that plant out. Top, LST, Mainline, etc.

 

[a mongo frog]

A SCROG is going to do better than a main cola dominant plant, probably. The more you can spread out your canopy to take advantage of the even footprint at 36 inches, the better. If you let a plant grow up, the lower stuff isn't going to get that same PPFD. But if I mainline and SCROG, all colas are spread and the same height. Thus, it will probably do better than letting it go untrained.

But lets say i match you and through 15 plants in that 5x5 area and prune the lowers effectively getting the same thing as your scrogg. We are talking about the same thing right? Because it wouldn't matter the ppfd numbers are there? Im still trying to gather info on these cobs as well. So don't get mad if it seems like your doing my home work for me. Im just asking questions.