This is gonna get interesting! Militia takes over Ore. federal building after protest.

[Rob Roy]

Really? Really? What happened if he did pull his gun? Do you think he would've just pointed it at the officer and then the officer would go, "You're under arrest!" And he'd lower his gun and go, "Well, jeez, if you say so officer!"

He ran a roadblock, he fled from the police, he tried to ram a guy, then he jumped out of his car, ran, reached into his jacket presumably for a weapon. He was lucky he survived that long. He on, numerous occasions, said he wouldn't be taken alive and also was shouting, "Just shoot me!"

Do you think the people that shot him have superior rights over you or I ?

 

[Rob Roy]

it looked like some cops were trying to use defensive force against a homicidal maniac who ran a barricade, nearly running people over in the process, and then reached for his gun to make an offensive death threat.

but a white power aficionado like you will see it differently.

No, defensive force is used to repel offensive force when somebody is in the act of attacking or threatening to attack.

He was, at least initially, clearly trying to avoid a confrontation.


What makes you think I'm a white power aficionado Poopy Pants? I'm not, but I figured your answer might be entertaining.

 

[pnwmystery]

Do you think the people that shot him have superior rights over you or I ?

This is such an incredibly stupid argument. Are you the same person that when you get pulled over you start shouting "AM I BEING DETAINED? NATURAL RIGHTS," at the top of your lungs?

 

[Rob Roy]

This is such a torridly stupid argument. Are you the same person that when you get pulled over you start shouting "AM I BEING DETAINED? NATURAL RIGHTS," at the top of your lungs?

No, I rarely shout.

Why is the argument stupid? Do you think some people have more rights than others?

 

[UncleBuck]

No defensive force is used when somebody is in the act of attacking or threatening to attack.

He was, at least initially, clearly trying to avoid a confrontation.

ramming a roadblock and reaching for a gun is not the best way to avoid a confrontation.

What makes you think I'm a white power aficionado Poopy Pants?

it's the way you constantly state that it should be legal to kick people out of stores based on their skin color.

 

[Rob Roy]

ramming a roadblock and reaching for a gun is not the best way to avoid a confrontation.



it's the way you constantly state that it should be legal to kick people out of stores based on their skin color.

He didn't ram a road block, he drove thru deep snow trying to avoid it.

No, I constantly state that the owner of a given property should determine the use of it, I've said multiple times that the race of the owner is irrelevant. So, your allegation is inaccurate, just like your toilet aim.

 

[UncleBuck]

He didn't ram a road block, he drove thru deep snow trying to avoid it.

nearly hit a man in the process then he jumped out and reached for a gun.

not really avoiding a confrontation. more like causing one.

your allegation is inaccurate

so you don't want to make it legal for store owners to kick people out based on skin color?

 

[Rob Roy]

nearly hit a man in the process then he jumped out and reached for a gun.

not really avoiding a confrontation. more like causing one.



so you don't want to make it legal for store owners to kick people out based on skin color?

On one hand (your first two sentences) you correctly imply a person avoiding a confrontation is in a defensive position.

Then in your last sentence, you imply a person causing a confrontation (determining the use of another persons property forcibly) is also in the defensive position.

Hey look, both sides of your mouth moving at once!

 

[budlover13]

Really? Really? What happened if he did pull his gun? Do you think he would've just pointed it at the officer and then the officer would go, "You're under arrest!" And he'd lower his gun and go, "Well, jeez, if you say so officer!"

He ran a roadblock, he fled from the police, he tried to ram a guy, then he jumped out of his car, ran, reached into his jacket presumably for a weapon. He was lucky he survived that long. He on, numerous occasions, said he wouldn't be taken alive and also was shouting, "Just shoot me!"

Basically, he died as he wished. He was willing to give his life for something. I would be interested in reading more about the guy. Journals, blogs, social media posts, etc. Just pondering what his main point was. Doubt it was grazing rights, but maybe government overreach?

Just highdeas.

 

[pnwmystery]

No, I rarely shout.

Why is the argument stupid? Do you think some people have more rights than others?

Do you think they have any less rights than others?

 

[Rob Roy]

Do you think they have any less rights than others?

I think if you or I have the right to use defensive force other people do too.

I think if you or I do not have the right to use offensive force (be the initiator of force) people wearing a costume and a badge do not have that right either.

Do you agree or do you think Police have more rights than you do?

 

[pnwmystery]

Basically, he died as he wished. He was willing to give his life for something. I would be interested in reading more about the guy. Journals, blogs, social media posts, etc. Just pondering what his main point was. Doubt it was grazing rights, but maybe government overreach?

Just highdeas.

Could actually be interesting, yeah.

 

[pnwmystery]

I think if you or I have the right to use defensive force other people do too.

I think if you or I do not have the right to use offensive force (be the initiator of force) people wearing a costume and a badge do not have that right either.

Do you agree or do you think Police have more rights than you do?

Pretty much, but I don't think it's just a costume and a silly badge. It's a job, a job that requires the use of force if necessary. For all they know and knew these people were heavily armed, and dangerous. Finicum had stated multiple times on record in interviews that he was not going to be taken alive, that he would use force if the police tried to make a move, and he was ready to stand his ground. So, when he comes barreling out of a vehicle and reaches into his jacket, what do you think he's doing? Pulling out a handkerchief to wave a white flag of surrender? Or reaching for a gun.

 

[NLXSK1]

No defensive force is used when somebody is in the act of attacking or threatening to attack.

He was, at least initially, clearly trying to avoid a confrontation.


What makes you think I'm a white power aficionado Poopy Pants? I'm not, but I figured your answer might be entertaining.

I think if you or I have the right to use defensive force other people do too.

I think if you or I do not have the right to use offensive force (be the initiator of force) people wearing a costume and a badge do not have that right either.

Do you agree or do you think Police have more rights than you do?

So, each individual has a right to use defensive force?

Lets say you have 2 neighbors, Stan and Bob. Stan and Bob get into a disagreement and start fighting with each other. Can you intervene? I mean, you are only allowed to use defensive force but if you try to get in the middle suddenly you are using offensive force.

Logically, based upon your explanation, nobody has the right to get between Stan and Bob using any force, it is up to them to fight it out until one dies or both are too incapacitate to continue.

 

[Rob Roy]

Pretty much, but I don't think it's just a costume and a silly badge. It's a job, a job that requires the use of force if necessary. For all they know and knew these people were heavily armed, and dangerous. Finicum had stated multiple times on record in interviews that he was not going to be taken alive, that he would use force if the police tried to make a move, and he was ready to stand his ground. So, when he comes barreling out of a vehicle and reaches into his jacket, what do you think he's doing? Pulling out a handkerchief to wave a white flag of surrender? Or reaching for a gun.

You are equivocating, you either agree or not...also the "just doing my job excuse" is lame





It looked like the "dangerous people" shot a man trying to avoid a confrontation.

Badges don't grant extra rights.

 

[Rob Roy]

So, each individual has a right to use defensive force?

Lets say you have 2 neighbors, Stan and Bob. Stan and Bob get into a disagreement and start fighting with each other. Can you intervene? I mean, you are only allowed to use defensive force but if you try to get in the middle suddenly you are using offensive force.

Logically, based upon your explanation, nobody has the right to get between Stan and Bob using any force, it is up to them to fight it out until one dies or both are too incapacitate to continue.

When Stan and Bob got in a fight who initiated the fight? Was it mutual?


Can a person intervene ? Good question. Is the intervention to cease the fight, aid the defending person (if there is one) or to aid the initial aggressor?

 

[budlover13]

Could actually be interesting, yeah.

So who's the internet guru here? Definitely not me. Add in 12 hour workdays and I will just pick up what I can.

 

[Fogdog]

Basically, he died as he wished. He was willing to give his life for something. I would be interested in reading more about the guy. Journals, blogs, social media posts, etc. Just pondering what his main point was. Doubt it was grazing rights, but maybe government overreach?

Just highdeas.

I've had a look at some of the stuff he wrote. He was in a Mormon fantasy. Sorry, he seemed like somebody that I'd be happy to know but he was in a different place. In one of his fantasy stories his character killed off his neighbors in a 2nd amendment fantasy. Of course it was all justified. In an interview, he went over how the ranchers came to this country and found unoccupied land and settled it, which justified ranchers owning it. Never mentioned native Americans. I honestly grieve in a small way for him but he wasn't of this world already. In my opinion.

 

[ChesusRice]

Basically, he died as he wished. He was willing to give his life for something. I would be interested in reading more about the guy. Journals, blogs, social media posts, etc. Just pondering what his main point was. Doubt it was grazing rights, but maybe government overreach?

Just highdeas.

Sounds like Rob Roy

 

[Rrog]

Sounds like Rob Roy

Lol. Is that who you're all arguing with? He was maybe the FIRST person I put on ignore years ago. Complete waste of time this guy. Complete