Fogdog
Well-Known Member
well said. Where have you been dude? This site is full of Rambos.
Complete tard almost gets half a dozen people killed
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
desert dude
Well-Known Member
The popcorn shooter is charged with murder 2. When a jury acquits him because he was scared, get back to me on this. The guy who killed Harvey Milk used the twinky defense. While I agree that too much sugar is bad for you, I don't think he walked.
A grumpy old guy with a dog scared you, and you are convinced he had a gun and was just itching to gun you down. Based on your ESP, the rest of us are supposed to abandon a fundamental civil right? Sounds like a very compelling argument, FD. You should run for office. The guy was muttering too. Maybe we should repeal 1A at the same time?
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
I'm going to pack a gun and harass people to the point of fighting.
As soon as I start losing I'm going to shoot them and call it self defense
As soon as I start losing I'm going to shoot them and call it self defense
desert dude
Well-Known Member
Let me know your prisoner ID. I will be your penpal.
nitro harley
Well-Known Member
Let me know how that work out for you CheesyO. Thats some real biker shit there. TRUMP!
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what happens in court. The guy thought he had a right to shoot somebody for throwing popcorn. The guy with popcorn is dead. It doesn't matter what happens in court to the dead guy and his family. You guys have got to stand down.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I don't see how anyone can think the shooter is in the wrong. The guy wasn't looking for trouble, it came to him.
Why does a cop have the right to shoot an armed robber and a citizen doesn't?
Pada,
You and others that have argued for gun control have stated a gun has one purpose, to kill.
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that a gun is meant for killing and then be against a person for thinking the same thing and shooting the guy that had the gun.
We need to see more of this. No not Rambo type stuff. Concealed carriers that have common sense and training to respond to a threat and eliminate it without injuries to others.
Why does a cop have the right to shoot an armed robber and a citizen doesn't?
Pada,
You and others that have argued for gun control have stated a gun has one purpose, to kill.
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that a gun is meant for killing and then be against a person for thinking the same thing and shooting the guy that had the gun.
We need to see more of this. No not Rambo type stuff. Concealed carriers that have common sense and training to respond to a threat and eliminate it without injuries to others.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Well, then this is probably a bad example for you to support since that's exactly what's depicted in the clip; blatant disregard for anyone else's safety, and the problem with that opinion is that it relies on individual discretion in each interaction and by simple numbers alone, you're guaranteed to have less than favorable results, exactly as we see now
Interestly, every other first world nation has much better results
Flaming Pie
Well-Known Member
???
He will get charged with murder. Of course it makes a difference to the family. How would they feel if the guy got no punishment?
How many years in a small cell with little to no freedom does a murder 2 get you?
The man made the wrong choice and ruined many lives that day. There are plenty of people that do not draw their gun over a heated disagreement.
Everyone has free will. They can choose to do good or bad. When they do bad, the law should be there to punish THAT person. Not an entire demographic.
Flaming Pie
Well-Known Member
Liberals like to pretend there is no bigotry in their heart.
Everyone is biased in one way or another and it often leads to judging those that think differently than you.
This is human. We are not perfect but we should strive to be better every day.
Judging an entire demographic because singular entities within the demographic do something wrong, is discrimination.
Something many of the liberals accuse Republicans of inventing and owning.
Everyone is biased in one way or another and it often leads to judging those that think differently than you.
This is human. We are not perfect but we should strive to be better every day.
Judging an entire demographic because singular entities within the demographic do something wrong, is discrimination.
Something many of the liberals accuse Republicans of inventing and owning.
Ray black
Well-Known Member
Totally agree, that guy had self control issues. Obviously he was not aware of his own anger issues..was a former cop right?
Either way, others should not be punished for his inability to control himself.
Fuckin people never take blame for their own shitty actions. Ridiculous
I have anger problems and there for DO NOT carry very often, even though I can. Because I know who I am and my own weaknesses.. Fuckin people..
Mind your own business and a lot of this would probably go away
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That video can be looked at and different conclusions can be drawn from it. Its not at all clear that the shooter was going to "win" when he drew, in which case, its quite possible that the whole shop was going to go down.. Not very many instances end up this well, happily in this instance the good guy won. That said, under current gun laws, those guys had the right to do what they did and it worked out well that time.
As I've said in some of our other dialogue, I think you and a couple of others on this site have thought it through and gotten the proper training. I respect you and am not concerned about your attitudes or way you carry. Not so for the general population. I think its up to gun owners to build the culture so that practically all that own and especially carry take the same high level of training, thought and precautions that you do. Unfortunately, at this time, most don't. Right now, 1 in 3 gun owners don't safely secure their weapon at home. Guys drop their guns in checkout lines or behind the seat in theaters for crissakes. These guys are the picture of Barney Fife in how they handle and store their fire arm. The should be made to carry their one bullet in their shirt pocket, assuming they aren't wearing a stained white tee shirt.
Most telling, for every time a gun is used in defense, there are four instances of completely unintentional shootings (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182) not to mention additional intentional shootings of women by the men that "love" them and other shootings of rivals or in anger. The link I posted was only one of many that shows similar statistics. Its up to the gun owner nation to drive this ratio down. From everything I've read, for me and most people, owning a gun makes us statistically less safe. I don't believe that expanding gun ownership will improve this -- I believe the opposite. The only thing I can do is support restrictions in gun rights, which I will do every time I have a chance. If gun owners want to keep things the same or expand rights to carry guns, then its up to them to change the statistics. I can't.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Dan White was convicted on two counts of voluntary manslaughter because he had "diminished capacity" or at least that's what the defense managed to use with success. I'm not sure what that has to do with the Florida popcorn killer so do tell. At this time, he is pleading innocence under Florida's lax gun laws. I believe that he planned to use this defense when he killed the guy that threw popcorn in his face. From descriptions of people that were there, he sure acted coolly about it.
I'm not asking you to abandon what you think is a fundamental right. I'm just saying take steps to reduce the mis-use of guns or the right to carry your gun in public will be challenged. Counter to what many gun owners say, it is a myth that gun ownership makes everybody safer. So, I'll chip away at how you exercise that right until the statistics agree with that belief.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Florida has pretty lax laws on murder. The popcorn killer is pleading innocence under Florida's lax laws regarding self defense. I too hope he never sees another day of freedom but we've seen other killers get off under these laws. In any case, that guy, as you say, took a life for no good reason. I don't really care to see this happen again. Arguments for carrying guns in public and that's what I'm discussing here, are not very convincing because what's said -- that gun ownership makes people safer -- doesn't match reality:
I look at our neighbor, Canada where people don't have the free will to carry guns in theaters where they might have a stupid argument with somebody else. They have teensy rates of gun violence compared to us. Its up to gun owners to remove the dissonance between the argument that gun ownership makes people safer and reality. Or else eventually, people like me are going to have their way and we'll join the rest of the developed world regarding gun laws. Its up to you guys, not me to do something about this.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I see a person that is robbed at gun point. I see a person pull their gun, take a shooting stance and end a threat. No one was injured or killed beside one of the ass hats that decided to rob people.
Disregard for safety? What exactly dipicts that? They fact he fired his weapon?
A gun is a tool to be used. It was used to protect people and went down without a hitch.
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whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
Its never clear who is going to win in a gun fight.
The way the shop was set up the chairs and employees were against the wall. In this video or another it shows the back door. The angle the shooter took was a clear one.
The shooter looks to take a good stance and fire. The shooter never looked out of control and no one innocent was injured.
I will take this outcome any day of the week. Maybe a few hundred more like this would change those statistics.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yes, he was a former cop. He's pleading that he was in fear of his life and that he had the right under Florida's laws to kill that man. As far as I can tell, he felt the killing was justified -- from descriptions from eye witnesses, the killer acted pretty coolly throughout. Whether or not he gets off is kind of irrelevant to the dead person.
What do you mean other people should not be punished? Would changes in open or concealed carry laws be a punishment?
Kudos for knowing yourself and taking care of your own business. For myself, while I don't have anything intrinsically against firearms, I don't think owning one would make me any safer. I don't hunt, so I don't own a firearm.
medicalMonster
Well-Known Member
lol. I meant those guys not you guys btw. If you read it wrong it doesn't sound sarcastic. (Im anti weapon though. I dont live their lives so i cant comment. And its not my right either)
Theirs some pretty strange people man thats for sure.
If only more kids were taught how to grow sprouts in kindergarten i bet wed have alot more kids and adults with hobbies then sadness. I know when i come home theirs always something to see in the tent
Ive gone off topic and will unsubscribe. Sorry for the hijack.
desert dude
Well-Known Member
Who is Dan White, and how did he get in this conversation?
The popcorn shooter in Florida is claiming innocence under the SYG law: so what.
Stand your ground laws are a good idea. Why should a law abiding citizen be forced to cede his freedom to a criminal?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I too think that the outcome was the best possible. I think that under our current laws, the defender acted within his rights and he was pretty good at what he did. I was impressed. So, great, we found an instance where the good guy won.
Outside the home, its almost impossible to find any good statistics to show that people walking about with guns at the ready in fact stop crime except for a rare few cases, this being one of them. There are competing reports out there showing various conclusions based upon results from a very small number of occurrences. The NRA has its own numbers but they aren't believable.
Inside the home, for every hundred of outcomes where the home was defended, there are about 500 gun accidents and many more than that where the home owner's own gun was criminally used to wound or kill at their home, usually by the gun owner or a family member. So, double tragedy -- a person is dead, most often another family member or friend of the family -- and the shooter is in for the legal fight of their life.
This is not to say anything about you or your ability. I've been impressed by what you say are your protocols for handling and storage of your weapons. I'd just like it to be the average and not the exception. Its up to gun owners to make this happen.