Complete tard almost gets half a dozen people killed

[Padawanbater2]

The argument of the folks against the fellow that successfully defended the lives of everyone that wasn't an armed robber, hinge on some ridiculous assumption that the perps were going to say thank you and leave in peace.

According to the FBI

Armed robberies in 2012 - 350K
Murders - 15K (total)

The vast majority of armed robberies do not end in shootings/death of the victims. Those that do tend to result from initiated defense from the victim. Which is why every law enforcement agency in America recommends cooperation as opposed to force. You have a better chance at surviving an armed robbery if you comply with the demands than you do if you resist and try to fight back. Does that mean you should never fight back? Of course not, so let's end that strawman before it begins.

In this situation, pulling out a weapon put others at risk both from the suspects themselves as well as from the customers clear lack of training and sense of judgment

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Tell me why volunteering for a job that hasn't fought a defensive war in decades deserves more praise than your local grocer

I'm not denigrating jj's service, I'm pointing out the foolishness of praising every single person for simply wearing the uniform. That's simply stupid

Because they're potentially putting their lives on the line in the service of this country. What politicians use the military for, doesn't diminish that devotion/sacrifice.

I am a vet. I am not entitled to more respect just because I was a former member of the military

Actually, you are. You just went up a notch in my book. That gets you to notch 1.

 

[ChesusRice]

http://nypost.com/video/insane-shootout-at-barbershop-caught-on-tape/
a better video in Color

 

[desert dude]

Another failed thread.

Some people prefer self defense. Others prefer to hand the attacker a jar of vaseline and then bend over.

For some reason, the pacifists think victimhood is more moral.

LULZ.

 

[doublejj]

According to the FBI

Armed robberies in 2012 - 350K
Murders - 15K (total)

The vast majority of armed robberies do not end in shootings/death of the victims. Those that do tend to result from initiated defense from the victim. Which is why every law enforcement agency in America recommends cooperation as opposed to force. You have a better chance at surviving an armed robbery if you comply with the demands than you do if you resist and try to fight back. Does that mean you should never fight back? Of course not, so let's end that strawman before it begins.

In this situation, pulling out a weapon put others at risk both from the suspects themselves as well as from the customers clear lack of training and sense of judgment

I believe this is written on most cell walls in prison.....Rule #1

 

[ChesusRice]

Another failed thread.

Some people prefer self defense. Others prefer to hand the attacker a jar of vaseline and then bend over.

For some reason, the pacifists think victimhood is more moral.

LULZ.

And some people are looking for a justified reason to kill someone
Now with concealed carry you don't have to be a police officer

 

[MuyLocoNC]

http://nypost.com/video/insane-shootout-at-barbershop-caught-on-tape/
a better video in Color

Ok, I watched the video. The perp was moving into the store towards other victims when the defender fired. I would absolutely call it a defensive shoot as the perp was still actively threatening everyone with his own firearm. There is no way to gauge intent with any accuracy, he may have saved every non-perp life in that store. This could be a perfect example of a thwarted mass killing thwarted by a CCW citizen.

I'm interested how the defender got those shots off without Mr. shotgun returning fire.

 

[hellmutt bones]

Ppl with guns have to make it a priority to learn how to shoot and how to adjudicate in situations.
If not the gun owner becomes a liability. Thus should never been given a firearm.
Thats whats wrong with America.
U want a gun? Better learn how to use it and use tactical engagement.

 

[doublejj]

I am a vet. I am not entitled to more respect just because I was a former member of the military

did you serve Honorably?...I have respect for anyone who has served their country honorably....that includes my enemies...

 

[desert dude]

And some people are looking for a justified reason to kill someone
Now with concealed carry you don't have to be a police officer

I doubt that guy went to the barbershop looking to kill somebody. The armed robbers probably did, though.

Welcome back, Cheesy.

 

[doublejj]

100% justified
100% not justified as defensive

If it wasn't defensive, it wasn't justified....

 

[MuyLocoNC]

If it wasn't defensive, it wasn't justified....

I thought for sure the video was going to show the robber moving towards the exit, because of Cheeb's claim of non-defensive. Shocked to see the robbery was just getting started and the perp was moving towards victims with a drawn weapon.

Don't see how anyone could see it as non-defensive.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I doubt that guy went to the barbershop looking to kill somebody. The armed robbers probably did, though.

Then why did they even try to rob them?

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Then why did they even try to rob them?

Are you expecting anyone to believe you've NEVER seen instances where armed robbers kill their COMPLYING victims after robbing them? I've seen countless examples where they are killed for sheer delight, reputation building and elimination of potential identification by witnesses.

C'mon man, that false obliviousness isn't going to work.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Are you expecting anyone to believe you've NEVER seen instances where armed robbers kill their COMPLYING victims after robbing them? I've seen countless examples where they are killed for sheer delight, reputation building and elimination of potential identification by witnesses.

C'mon man, that false obliviousness isn't going to work.

If even 1 out of 10 armed robberies resulted in murder you still wouldn't be justified in putting other people's lives at risk

The reality is that <4% of armed robberies result in murders

 

[Padawanbater2]

To be clear, if nobody else's life is at risk, shoot the guy until your magazine is empty for all I care. The issue I take with this situation is with the safety of the other patrons of the barbershop.

 

[Fogdog]

As long as they are branching firearms they are threating your life & you have every right to end the threat.....by any means necessary. There was no guarantee they wouldn't have shot all the witness's before leaving anyway...

It didn't seem that the gunmen meant to murder, they were there to rob. I mean, before the guy fired in self defense, it looked likely that everybody would be OK once the gunmen left. This is another case where maybe it would have been better it that guy had left his gun at home.

You are ex military though it was a long time ago. Would you draw with a person pointing a shotgun in your face? Sounds more like suicide to me.

 

[Padawanbater2]

It didn't seem that the gunmen meant to murder, they were there to rob. I mean, before the guy fired in self defense, it looked likely that everybody would be OK once the gunmen left. This is another case where maybe it would have been better it that guy had left his gun at home.

That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes the best option is to not do anything. Some of the opponents here would argue not doing anything makes you a pussy even though not doing anything might be the best option for everyone's survival. I think this sentiment is prevalent throughout American society. If you don't do anything and nobody dies but the suspects get away, you're a coward who didn't do shit. If you do do something and someone gets shot/killed in the process, you're a hero for trying to prevent it..

 

[Fogdog]

That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes the best option is to not do anything. Some of the opponents here would argue not doing anything makes you a pussy even though not doing anything might be the best option for everyone's survival. I think this sentiment is prevalent throughout American society. If you don't do anything and nobody dies but the suspects get away, you're a coward who didn't do shit. If you do do something and someone gets shot/killed in the process, you're a hero for trying to prevent it..

Others are saying the same thing as you and I. I also understand the view of @doublejj , who would never submit to an armed robbery, I guess. If they want to keep the 2nd amendment as it is, its up to people like JJ to make the right decisions of when to use that gun and when not to. And actually, I do think that JJ would make the right call. Its not at all clear to me that the majority of wannabe gunfighters out there are doing enough to train and prepare for that situation. Like Barney Fife, enamored with the power but really not fit to have it.

edit: At the time that the customer drew, it looked like all the gunmen wanted was to rob and not murder, so, no, I don't think it was a good idea to draw, even though it was self defense.

 

[Lord Kanti]

http://www.surenews.com/crime/armed-men-try-and-rob-a-barbershop-however-they-werent-prepared-for-what-would-happen-next/


Barbershop gets robbed, two suspects, one with a handgun, the other with what looks like a shotgun. The guy with the handgun walks through the barbershop stealing everyone's money as the guy with the shotgun does a half-assed job of standing guard. Handgun guy gets to the front of the barbershop, then turns his back and one of the customers sitting in the chair pulls out his gun and shoots at handgun guy while shotgun guy still has the gun pointed at everyone. The clip ends shortly after that.

Not only did the guy shoot in the direction of other customers to try to hit handgun guy, he completely disregarded the other suspect pointing the shotgun at everyone, including a small child seen at the beginning of the clip. Had this situation gone any other way, everyone in that room could have easily been murdered over at best, a few hundred dollars.

Does what the customer did in this clip make any of you feel more or less safe in society?


Interesting to note, this is coming from a right-wing website, this is what they're promoting as smart, responsible gun use (read some of the comments)

I'll take the CCW. What do you prefer, a portable can of anal lube to throw at your assailant?

Pun somewhat intended.