defoliation when in flower

Thorhax

Well-Known Member
about a year and a half ago i did a side by side test with Super lemon haze to see if defol works for myself. BTW i know leaves do the photosynthesis... so even though it went against my common sense i tried it anyways...

some KEY observations in my opinion.

1. After each Defoliation (2 weeks into flowering and 3 weeks before harvest) the plants seamed to slow down all types of growth.

2. (same genetics, same 5 gal smart pot, same EVERYTHING) The plant i defoliated needed a lot more trimming than the plant i didn't. seams to me like because i took off all the big healthy leaves, the plant decided to make the smaller leaves and sugar leaves grow bigger and with less frost.

3. The plant i defoliated also burned a little bit, where the one with all her leaves was fine.(same nectar of the gods mix i use)

4. defol plant yielded 3.2oz and the natural beauty 4.3oz. each plant finished about 4ft and had 12 main colas. i cut out the bottoms (lollipop) on both plants.
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
about a year and a half ago i did a side by side test with Super lemon haze to see if defol works for myself. BTW i know leaves do the photosynthesis... so even though it went against my common sense i tried it anyways...

some KEY observations in my opinion.

1. After each Defoliation (2 weeks into flowering and 3 weeks before harvest) the plants seamed to slow down all types of growth.

2. (same genetics, same 5 gal smart pot, same EVERYTHING) The plant i defoliated needed a lot more trimming than the plant i didn't. seams to me like because i took off all the big healthy leaves, the plant decided to make the smaller leaves and sugar leaves grow bigger and with less frost.

3. The plant i defoliated also burned a little bit, where the one with all her leaves was fine.(same nectar of the gods mix i use)

4. defol plant yielded 3.2oz and the natural beauty 4.3oz. each plant finished about 4ft and had 12 main colas. i cut out the bottoms (lollipop) on both plants.
I noticed before also that buds will grow their first couple sets of leaves quite large if the stem leaves are all cut off and if they are also topped. At least plants that are mostly Indica. Numerous people have stated that they did get considerably lower yields with defoliation so it must be true. It just looks bad with all those big leaves causing shade. It's hard to resist removing them.
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
Truth About Removing Fan Leaves

I am probably one of the most outspoken members here when it comes to removing leaves from our plants, I want to share this little ditty from


marijuana Botany
An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis
by Robert Connell Clarke




Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.

Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.
If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack.


whole thing available here
http://www.mellowgold.com/portugese/...nabotany2.html

I wonder if the trend of pruning leaves would change if folks knew it could cause hermies
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
The Truth About Shade Leaves

Everyday here at RIU some one ask should I trim the leaves? here lately it seems more and more members are getting it and telling the new growers NO, which is a good thing!

What would you say if I said that those shaded leaves are actually more productive for the plant?

Before I explain, let me say that we tend to call the leaves of our beloved MJ plant FAN leaves cause they are shaped like a fan. But in reality there are two types of leaves SUN leaves (the ones in the light) and SHADE leaves (the ones in the shade). Also please understand that it is the leaves that make the bud, the buds do not use light the same way that the leaves do and a plant without it's leaves will not yield big buds, period!

Getting back to my statement about leaf production, here is a quote from a texas aggie site,,,,,,,



Research done in Florida in the late 1970's revealed an interesting phenomenon. Tropical plants grown in full sun have leaves (so called sun leaves) which are structurally different from the leaves of plants grown in shade (shade leaves). Sun leaves have fewer chloroplasts and thus less chlorophyll. Their chloroplasts are located deep inside the leaves and the leaves are thick, small and large in number. Shade leaves have greater numbers of chloroplasts and thus more chlorophyll, are thin, large and few in number. When plants are grown in strong light they develop sun leaves which are photosynthetically very inefficient. If these same plants are placed in low light, they must either remake existing sun leaves or drop their sun leaves and grow a new set of shade leaves which are photosynthetically more efficient.

Now armed with these two terms we can do a simple google for the term sun leaves versus shade leaves and get a whole bunch of great info

this quote is about trees but carries very important info with regard to how the different types of leaves help the plant,,,,,



Trees need tremendous amounts of water on a daily basis. Even though it may not rain every day, a trees' roots spread through the ground absorbing water. A mature oak tree needs 40-60 gallons of water every day. Trees have ways of conserving water, because water is very precious to a tree. One way in which a tree helps to conserve water is to develop two kinds of leaves. There are sun leaves and shade leaves. Sun leaves are small, with less surface area, which reduces the amount of exposure to the sun and wind. A shade leaf is large, with greater surface area, which increases the amount of area exposed to the sun. Remember, it is important for a tree to have its leaves exposed to the sun so that photosynthesis (food making) can take place, but not so much that it loses too much water.


And from the same site a bit of explanation,,,,,,,,



Every tree or plant has a daily need for water. The cell, as the basic unit of life, is 75% water. Therefore, if a tree is to live, its cells must have enough water. A tree loses water by a process known as evapo-transpiration. Evaporation of water is increased by heat and wind. Transpiration is the movement of water from the roots through the stem to the leaves where evaporational losses can be high. The leaves must have a continuous supply of water to avoid dehydration and to carry out photosynthesis.

The effect of heat and wind on leaf water loss is greatest at the top of the tree. A tree, or any other plant, has several strategies to reduce the inevitable loss of water. There is a waxy covering (cuticle) on the leaf to reduce desiccation. Stomata (leaf openings which are necessary for gaseous exchange, but do enhance evaporation) are concentrated on the underside of the leaf so as not to be directly exposed to the sun. Stomata guard cells close when evaporation conditions are most intense.
Shade leaves and sun leaves are different. Surface area is a key consideration in reducing water loss. The less surface area that is in contact with wind or heat, the less water is lost. In other words, small is good when in direct contact with the sun. When considering the entire set of leaves on the tree, one notices that some of the leaves receive direct exposure to the sun, and other leaves receive indirect sun because of shading by other leaves. Sun leaves are found on the top part of the crown. Shade leaves are found on the bottom part of the crown especially on the north side, and have a larger surface area. Determining a ratio between shade leaves and sun leaves on a tree helps a forester or arboriculturist determine its tolerance or intolerance to shade. A tree that has a high ratio of shade leaves to sun leaves indicates it is tolerant to shade. In other words, the tree does not mind growing in the shade and is a species that is able to grow as a sapling under a dense forest canopy.


There will be a few folks that will hollor that this info is not about MJ but it relates to all plants and is based in simle botany that applies to all plants

which leads us to my favorite quote,,,,,,,,,



Abstract.Light gradients were measured and correlated with chlorophyll concentration and anatomy of leaves in spinach (Spinacia oleracea L.). Light gradients were measured at 450, 550 and 680 nm within thin (455 μm) and thick (630 μm) leaves of spinach grown under sun and shade conditions. The light gradients were relatively steep in both types of leaves and 90% of the light at 450 and 680 nm was absorbed by the initial 140 μm of the palisade. In general, blue light was depleted faster than red light which, in turn was depleted faster than green light. Light penetrated further into the thicker palisade of sun leaves in comparison to the shade leaves. The distance that blue light at 450 nm travelled before it became 90% depleted was 120 μm in sun leaves versus 76 μm in shade leaves. Red light at 680 nm and green light at 550 nm travelled further but the trends were similar to that measured at 450nm. The steeper light gradients within the palisade-of shade leaves were caused by increased scattering of light within the intercellular air spaces and/or cells which were less compact than those in sun leaves. The decline in the amount of light within the leaf appeared to be balanced by a gradient in chlorophyll concentration measured in paradermal sections. Progressing from the adaxial epidermis, chlorophyll content increased through the palisade and then declined through the spongy mesophyll. Chlorophyll content was similar in the palisade of both sun and shade leaves. Chloroplast distribution within both sun and shade leaves was relatively uniform so that the chlorophyll gradient appeared to be caused by greater amounts of chlorophyll within chloroplasts located deeper within the leaf. These results indicate that the anatomy of the palisade may be of special importance for controlling the penetration of photo-synthetically active radiation into the leaf. Changing the structural characteristics of individual palisade cells or their arrangement may be an adaptation that maximizes the absorption of light in leaves with varying mesophyll thickness due to different ambient light regimes.


Seems like every day I tell some one that plants do not see/react to light the same way we do, I hope that I have better explained for everyone now. Why it is so important to give your plants the proper spectrum of light as opposed to tons of lumens
 

Mowgli Ma-Fên

Well-Known Member
The Truth About Shade Leaves

Everyday here at RIU some one ask should I trim the leaves? here lately it seems more and more members are getting it and telling the new growers NO, which is a good thing!

What would you say if I said that those shaded leaves are actually more productive for the plant?

Before I explain, let me say that we tend to call the leaves of our beloved MJ plant FAN leaves cause they are shaped like a fan. But in reality there are two types of leaves SUN leaves (the ones in the light) and SHADE leaves (the ones in the shade). Also please understand that it is the leaves that make the bud, the buds do not use light the same way that the leaves do and a plant without it's leaves will not yield big buds, period!

Getting back to my statement about leaf production, here is a quote from a texas aggie site,,,,,,,



Research done in Florida in the late 1970's revealed an interesting phenomenon. Tropical plants grown in full sun have leaves (so called sun leaves) which are structurally different from the leaves of plants grown in shade (shade leaves). Sun leaves have fewer chloroplasts and thus less chlorophyll. Their chloroplasts are located deep inside the leaves and the leaves are thick, small and large in number. Shade leaves have greater numbers of chloroplasts and thus more chlorophyll, are thin, large and few in number. When plants are grown in strong light they develop sun leaves which are photosynthetically very inefficient. If these same plants are placed in low light, they must either remake existing sun leaves or drop their sun leaves and grow a new set of shade leaves which are photosynthetically more efficient.

Now armed with these two terms we can do a simple google for the term sun leaves versus shade leaves and get a whole bunch of great info

this quote is about trees but carries very important info with regard to how the different types of leaves help the plant,,,,,



Trees need tremendous amounts of water on a daily basis. Even though it may not rain every day, a trees' roots spread through the ground absorbing water. A mature oak tree needs 40-60 gallons of water every day. Trees have ways of conserving water, because water is very precious to a tree. One way in which a tree helps to conserve water is to develop two kinds of leaves. There are sun leaves and shade leaves. Sun leaves are small, with less surface area, which reduces the amount of exposure to the sun and wind. A shade leaf is large, with greater surface area, which increases the amount of area exposed to the sun. Remember, it is important for a tree to have its leaves exposed to the sun so that photosynthesis (food making) can take place, but not so much that it loses too much water.


And from the same site a bit of explanation,,,,,,,,



Every tree or plant has a daily need for water. The cell, as the basic unit of life, is 75% water. Therefore, if a tree is to live, its cells must have enough water. A tree loses water by a process known as evapo-transpiration. Evaporation of water is increased by heat and wind. Transpiration is the movement of water from the roots through the stem to the leaves where evaporational losses can be high. The leaves must have a continuous supply of water to avoid dehydration and to carry out photosynthesis.

The effect of heat and wind on leaf water loss is greatest at the top of the tree. A tree, or any other plant, has several strategies to reduce the inevitable loss of water. There is a waxy covering (cuticle) on the leaf to reduce desiccation. Stomata (leaf openings which are necessary for gaseous exchange, but do enhance evaporation) are concentrated on the underside of the leaf so as not to be directly exposed to the sun. Stomata guard cells close when evaporation conditions are most intense.
Shade leaves and sun leaves are different. Surface area is a key consideration in reducing water loss. The less surface area that is in contact with wind or heat, the less water is lost. In other words, small is good when in direct contact with the sun. When considering the entire set of leaves on the tree, one notices that some of the leaves receive direct exposure to the sun, and other leaves receive indirect sun because of shading by other leaves. Sun leaves are found on the top part of the crown. Shade leaves are found on the bottom part of the crown especially on the north side, and have a larger surface area. Determining a ratio between shade leaves and sun leaves on a tree helps a forester or arboriculturist determine its tolerance or intolerance to shade. A tree that has a high ratio of shade leaves to sun leaves indicates it is tolerant to shade. In other words, the tree does not mind growing in the shade and is a species that is able to grow as a sapling under a dense forest canopy.


There will be a few folks that will hollor that this info is not about MJ but it relates to all plants and is based in simle botany that applies to all plants

which leads us to my favorite quote,,,,,,,,,



Abstract.Light gradients were measured and correlated with chlorophyll concentration and anatomy of leaves in spinach (Spinacia oleracea L.). Light gradients were measured at 450, 550 and 680 nm within thin (455 μm) and thick (630 μm) leaves of spinach grown under sun and shade conditions. The light gradients were relatively steep in both types of leaves and 90% of the light at 450 and 680 nm was absorbed by the initial 140 μm of the palisade. In general, blue light was depleted faster than red light which, in turn was depleted faster than green light. Light penetrated further into the thicker palisade of sun leaves in comparison to the shade leaves. The distance that blue light at 450 nm travelled before it became 90% depleted was 120 μm in sun leaves versus 76 μm in shade leaves. Red light at 680 nm and green light at 550 nm travelled further but the trends were similar to that measured at 450nm. The steeper light gradients within the palisade-of shade leaves were caused by increased scattering of light within the intercellular air spaces and/or cells which were less compact than those in sun leaves. The decline in the amount of light within the leaf appeared to be balanced by a gradient in chlorophyll concentration measured in paradermal sections. Progressing from the adaxial epidermis, chlorophyll content increased through the palisade and then declined through the spongy mesophyll. Chlorophyll content was similar in the palisade of both sun and shade leaves. Chloroplast distribution within both sun and shade leaves was relatively uniform so that the chlorophyll gradient appeared to be caused by greater amounts of chlorophyll within chloroplasts located deeper within the leaf. These results indicate that the anatomy of the palisade may be of special importance for controlling the penetration of photo-synthetically active radiation into the leaf. Changing the structural characteristics of individual palisade cells or their arrangement may be an adaptation that maximizes the absorption of light in leaves with varying mesophyll thickness due to different ambient light regimes.


Seems like every day I tell some one that plants do not see/react to light the same way we do, I hope that I have better explained for everyone now. Why it is so important to give your plants the proper spectrum of light as opposed to tons of lumens
good one.
but stomata are also on the upper side of leaves, at least in most plants
 

DrGhard

Well-Known Member
about a year and a half ago i did a side by side test with Super lemon haze to see if defol works for myself. BTW i know leaves do the photosynthesis... so even though it went against my common sense i tried it anyways...

some KEY observations in my opinion.

1. After each Defoliation (2 weeks into flowering and 3 weeks before harvest) the plants seamed to slow down all types of growth.

2. (same genetics, same 5 gal smart pot, same EVERYTHING) The plant i defoliated needed a lot more trimming than the plant i didn't. seams to me like because i took off all the big healthy leaves, the plant decided to make the smaller leaves and sugar leaves grow bigger and with less frost.

3. The plant i defoliated also burned a little bit, where the one with all her leaves was fine.(same nectar of the gods mix i use)

4. defol plant yielded 3.2oz and the natural beauty 4.3oz. each plant finished about 4ft and had 12 main colas. i cut out the bottoms (lollipop) on both plants.

ye, you shouldnt defoliate sativa-dominat strains like the super lemon haze. anyhow the shading is not as bad the big fan leaves of the indica-dominant strains
 

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
about a year and a half ago i did a side by side test with Super lemon haze to see if defol works for myself. BTW i know leaves do the photosynthesis... so even though it went against my common sense i tried it anyways...

some KEY observations in my opinion.

1. After each Defoliation (2 weeks into flowering and 3 weeks before harvest) the plants seamed to slow down all types of growth.

2. (same genetics, same 5 gal smart pot, same EVERYTHING) The plant i defoliated needed a lot more trimming than the plant i didn't. seams to me like because i took off all the big healthy leaves, the plant decided to make the smaller leaves and sugar leaves grow bigger and with less frost.

3. The plant i defoliated also burned a little bit, where the one with all her leaves was fine.(same nectar of the gods mix i use)

4. defol plant yielded 3.2oz and the natural beauty 4.3oz. each plant finished about 4ft and had 12 main colas. i cut out the bottoms (lollipop) on both plants.
I know you've tried it because i was having the exact same issues and ive tried 3 times with 6 clones with a day 22 strip and day 45 strip.
Mid way through flower my tops (from the defoliated plant) ended up with leafy as fuck new growth that shaded bottom growth even more then its sister clone. *defoliation experts claim fat undergrowth nugs

after stripping, the plant sits there with extremly slow growth for about 3-6 days.*defoliation experts claim they dont miss a beat!

After stripping i will need to drop my feed all the way back to 1/4 - 1/3 or it will burn the fuck out of the entire plant. *defoliation experts do not mention this not even once!

After stripping it was easy to over-water as the plant seemed to drink water 50% slower. *defoliation experts also do not mention this!

We must be doing something wrong :wall: lol
 

Thorhax

Well-Known Member
ye, you shouldnt defoliate sativa-dominat strains like the super lemon haze. anyhow the shading is not as bad the big fan leaves of the indica-dominant strains
I also delof'ed on an LSD and thc bomb but i didn't do a side by side so i didn't mention them. YOUR NOT SUPPOSE TO DEFOL ANYTHING
 

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
I know you've tried it because i was having the exact same issues and ive tried 3 times with 6 clones with a day 22 strip and day 45 strip.
Mid way through flower my tops (from the defoliated plant) ended up with leafy as fuck new growth that shaded bottom growth even more then its sister clone. *defoliation experts claim fat undergrowth nugs

after stripping, the plant sits there with extremly slow growth for about 3-6 days.*defoliation experts claim they dont miss a beat!

After stripping i will need to drop my feed all the way back to 1/4 - 1/3 or it will burn the fuck out of the entire plant. *defoliation experts do not mention this not even once!

After stripping it was easy to over-water as the plant seemed to drink water 50% slower. *defoliation experts also do not mention this!

We must be doing something wrong :wall: lol
After you top a plant the same thing can happen, it depends on the environment, soil, light and the skill of the grower
defoliated is for advanced growers
 

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
After you top a plant the same thing can happen, it depends on the environment, soil, light and the skill of the grower
defoliated is for advanced growers
Lol.well not everyone has mastered the "defoilate by nutrient" technique yet jack.
Btw topping does not cause the plants to grow a stupid amount of leaves in your buds..then they cry about harsh bud and claim you need to starve the plant in the bulking phase.The plant knows wtf its doing man,you dont have to teach it how to make buds dude.Thats the plants whole agenda,stop thinking you know better.
 
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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Truth About Removing Fan Leaves

I am probably one of the most outspoken members here when it comes to removing leaves from our plants, I want to share this little ditty from


marijuana Botany
An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis
by Robert Connell Clarke




Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.

Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.
If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack.

whole thing available here
http://www.mellowgold.com/portugese/...nabotany2.html

I wonder if the trend of pruning leaves would change if folks knew it could cause hermies
With every new crop of newbies that don't know plant culture. People like jack will have to learn the hard way since they aren't a student of horticulture, just forum hype. They're gonna fuck it up come hell or high water.

We had this discussion during the very first cannabis forum on the internet. That was at Marihemp aka cannabis.com, a site I modded for a while. A website where all the heavy weights hung out including The Bros. Grimm (Cinderalla 99 breeders), Vic High, me, etc. Here's a part of that discussion between a dozen of us then....like 17 years ago! I have archived many such discussions for 17 years across a dozen different websites. They are all the same.

In his book "marijuana botany" Robert Connell Clarke states that:

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug cannabis cultivation.

He states that there are 3 common beliefs:

1.) large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves


surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed



2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long


noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the


noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will


proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering



3.)Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters


may begin to develop if they receive more light.

Few, if any, of the theories behind leafing have any validity.


The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large


leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth


substances.They do create shade, but at the same time thay are collecting valuable solar energy and


producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant.


premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is


reduced.


Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this


trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant)


He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic


balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic


imbalance

he goes on to say that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and


water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the


natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.

This book has served me very well in my 12+ years of growing--I would have to side with RC on


this one--those sunleaves are there for a reason--they dont grow just for show--leave them on


there and let that plant grow naturally

Good Luck


Thunderbunny


Uncle Ben
 
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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Truth About Removing Fan Leaves

I am probably one of the most outspoken members here when it comes to removing leaves from our plants, I want to share this little ditty from
I would have to respectfully disagree. :mrgreen:
 
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Flowki

Well-Known Member
After you top a plant the same thing can happen, it depends on the environment, soil, light and the skill of the grower
defoliated is for advanced growers
Has to be said jack the more and more I read into things the less it makes sense to ''heavily defoliate'' at any point. Looking at posts and reasoning behind why people defoliate so much they all seem to follow the same trend of having very short plants with lower leaves very close to the soil and pot form very early lst. That low down and near the pot is going to have heavier shadow or make irrigation a problem in access and/or spillage onto the lower leaves and burning them. At that point it seems beneficial to cut them off.

Perhaps it's technique error leading toward the need for defoliation in a lot of cases. I understand people may have very limited over head space thus need to keep plants short and close to the pot but perhaps their is another growing method that better suites that condition?. It would appear UB's topping approach (for example) would better suite short plants as the V shape will push most foliage up toward the middle and top, clear of the soil/pot shadow area. that is assuming the soil level is high enough in the pot to push the plant clear of over shadowing.

I dunno, just speculating. But it would seem that the more leaves you can hold onto through the best suited technique for you or the execution of it, the better.

On the other hand I see people who have tall large plants in a lst or scrog type of setup. I guess I can see why they may loli indoor on those plants because at that height and canopy density you can clearly see no light is getting a few feet down to the base of the plant.
 
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chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Has to be said jack the more and more I read into things the less it makes sense to ''heavily defoliate'' at any point. Looking at posts and reasoning behind why people defoliate so much they all seem to follow the same trend of having very short plants with lower leaves very close to the soil and pot. That low down and near the pot is going to have heavier shadow or make irrigation a problem in access and/or spillage onto the lower leaves and burning them. At that point it seems beneficial to cut them off.

Perhaps it's technique error leading toward the need for defoliation in a lot of cases. I understand people may have very limited over head space thus need to keep plants short and close to the pot but perhaps their is another growing method that better suites that condition?. It would appear UB's topping approach (for example) would better suite short plants as the V shape will push most foliage up toward the middle and top, clear of the soil/pot shadow area. that is assuming the soil level is high enough in the pot to push the plant clear of over shadowing.

I dunno, just speculating. But it would seem that the more leaves you can hold onto through the best suited technique for you or the execution of it, the better.

On the other hand I see people who have tall large plants in a lst or scrog type of setup. I guess I can see why they may loli indoor on those plants because at that height and canopy density you can clearly see no light is getting a few feet down to the base of the plant.
and I'll say it for the hundreth time, if you grow plants to big for your light, you do things like defoil and lollipop to try and make up for it.
like the short dude with the huge truck.
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
and I'll say it for the hundreth time, if you grow plants to big for your light, you do things like defoil and lollipop to try and make up for it.
like the short dude with the huge truck.
I don't think they were growing them that big by accident. Seemed like they preferred one big plant under one light rather than four smaller ones etc.
 

fjbudboy

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the posts by Uncle Ben and RM3, very informative. I am new have only learned from the web or what the grow shop guys are willing to offer me on knowledge (I was surprised at different opinions from different locations). I've seen some really nice looking plants(photos) that have been defoliated. The way I figured though (bro-science) if terpines and things are evaporated away wouldn't shade leaves keep your pistils and trichs and everything nice a bit protected from direct uv while photons will do work to the bud sites indirectly as well as catching more overall photons for the plant as possible? There was this one time in biology class we talked about cells, photosynthesis, and energy I can't remember for sure though but 'energy is energy' may have been drilled into my head. Well in any case this thread just dropped a bunch of knowledge bombs just in case the grow shop guy across town convinces me his 'cut all fan leaves off at 5 weeks flower' is something I should try. So, thank you.
 

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
Lol.well not everyone has mastered the "defoilate by nutrient" technique yet jack.
Btw topping does not cause the plants to grow a stupid amount of leaves in your buds..then they cry about harsh bud and claim you need to starve the plant in the bulking phase.The plant knows wtf its doing man,you dont have to teach it how to make buds dude.Thats the plants whole agenda,stop thinking you know better.


Plants are meant to grow outside and as the sun goes over the Christmas shape plant, most leaves only receive about 5 hours of direct light as the other side starts to get shaded ( nodes don't grow long in a short time of direct light but if shoots don't get any direct light, they start to stretch )

often animals will eat some of the leaves or eat the top of the plant (topping)

receiving 12 hours of direct light causes the long node spacing between the nodes ( last thing i want)

removing a few fan leaves at the right time can stunt the shoots and keep the node space short ( no different to an animal eating a few large fan leaves)

I don't starve the plant, just don't over feed them and have soil that drains well
 
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