Saudis vs Iran...who's going to win?

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
So again this comes down to US credibility which i have to say YOU fucking have none

In fact, the assumed connection between sanctions relief and greater regional activism makes the Iranians look much more like cool-headed green eyeshade types than are the Americans who promoted the biggest destabilizing, country-breaking, terrorism-stimulating event in the Middle East in recent times: a war that turned out to cost trillions.

Note a further inconsistency in what the deal-killers are saying. Many of the same people (the Israeli prime minister is a prominent but by no means the only example) who are saying that Iran should not be given sanctions relief lest the Iranians have more resources for regional trouble-making are also contending that continued pressure through sanctions is the way to get a “better deal” on the nuclear issue.

Even if either of these contentions were valid (and neither one is), they could not possibly both be valid. The sanctions from which Iran will get relief were enacted for the clearly expressed purpose of inducing concessions from Iran on the nuclear issue. With the framework agreement that was announced last week, that purpose has been achieved.

But opponents of the deal are suggesting that the United States should now say, “Well, that’s not really what we had in mind for those sanctions. We’re going to keep them in place indefinitely because we don’t want to give you resources for doing other things.”

How is that supposed to give the Iranians incentive to cooperate on anything, and specifically on nuclear matters? And for those who whine a lot about damage to U.S. credibility (many of those opposing the nuclear deal are among the principal habitual whiners), how will this switcharoo affect how other nations view U.S. credibility, and how much they will believe the United States the next time it tries to use a tool such as economic sanctions to persuade someone to change a policy?

There wouldn`t be no deal killers if first it was not done secretly and second wasn`t a gifted grant.

So why were these sanctions put into play ?

You can shit all over our Government all you please, I do it all the time, they are crooks and greedy. But don`t use that as a stepping stone to describe me.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
Most countries scream death to America most notably North Korea And they have NUKES and what we all know what happened last time USA and them went to war again under estimating a enemy is USA biggest issues and what gets them schooled all the time Iraq included schooled USA , Vietnam Schooled,
The problem is you say USA has been policing middle east how so ??? you mean trying to change there governments , Rape them of there Assets and you wonder why many countries are burning american flags beheading soldiers and ISIS
Huge difference between policing and stealing
This no different the Kahdaffi he was once a US allie , But once e decided to make a currency that was litterally in gold standard , USA flipped sides supported the rebels to kill him ..
See back then that 70 dollar barrel would of costed you double cause now you had to convert US currency to there currency to purchase oil
God or bid USA doing that so support the rebels kill him off

Who are we really to dictate how another country operate, or there laws, or policies ????
I mean for the longest time YES even in school we are taught Communism is Bad ?? is it ???
i mean looks like you owe communist country trillions of dollars and TBH comunism appears to be working better then our system today
Schooling is free housing is free , how many veterans are living on the street ni USA ?? you would never see that in a Communist country What i am trying to say is Again who is USA in trying to change another countries ways ?? that is no poilicing but rather persecution but We will point fingers at other countries lol

Example how would you feel getting woken up 7 am tomorrow buy a army of Chinese AND A TANK at your front door and them saying you got 10 mins to wake everyone up and leave your house and 10 mins later your out and tank starts driving over your house and neighbors and you have to convert to communism now cause China is policing USA how would you like that ??

Sad thing is 99 percent of the news you here is censored they only allow you to here stuff propaganda that makes usa Strong and or other countries the villian
Just like Russia invading UK owe boy waas that bad Ehh ? ??..
Truth is NATO were the true cock suckers trying again to get into Russia's back yard build another base of missiles pointing at Russia ,, as if Russia would let thaat happen so yup invade UK cmon boys dont run NATO where you going start shit and run
Kind of reminds me of When Russia started pointing Nukes in your back yard in Cuba How did americans like that ??? but its ok the other way around ..
So really policing what what you think is right and wrong ?? well many countries can point out all the wrong USA has done and financially speaking USA would be the last thing any country really needs
Pleez lern 2 enlish
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
But you know whats awesome you spent trillions of dollars in the middle east and are losing it all at record speed Putin even said USA cannot be trusted i believe him as well as many countries considering what USA has done to them lets see here wiki leaks ring a bell ?? that alone was hook line and sinker spying on germany listening to calls etc Hillary saying some stupid things live recorded about other countries
telling you man USA has really hurt them selfs big time i do not think there is one country that actually respects you and thats bad my friend
i mean really

As America and partnering world powers toil in Vienna to turn Iran into their BFF, our traditional, now jilted, Arab allies are looking for love in all the wrong places.

Can you blame them, though?

Fearing the rise of a new empire ruled by megalomaniacal Persian Shiites, the Saudis, Egyptians and others are seeking alliances with Vladimir Putin, who dreams of his own empire.

Take Egypt. Seeking to enter Putin’s customs union,Cairo now contemplates switching to rubles in order to buy Russian wheat. Egypt plans to join the Eurasian Economic Union by the end of next year — a trading bloc that for now includes only Russian satellites like Kazakhstan, Belarus and Armenia.

Oh, and the Egyptian army once again is buying Russian-made tanks, guns and MiG fighter jets, as well as Chinese clones.

That’s a total reversal of one of the Cold War’s major coups, when, almost overnight, the Soviet-dependent Egyptian army turned to US-made planes and tanks in the late 1970s.

Cairo also switched allegiances. After Washington brokered an Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty, the most populous Arab country turned into a trusted American ally.

And now we’re beginning to see a reversal. Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi suspects that the United States no longer has his back, so he’s turning east.

At least Sisi has some memories of being part of the Soviet bloc. The Saudis don’t.

Riyadh has depended on American protection for more than half a century, returning the favor by guaranteeing relative stability in global energy markets (except for a spell during the Carter years).

Yet now the Saudis, too, are seeking Russia’s friendship.

Two weeks ago, Riyadh’s newly minted deputy crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, popped up in St. Petersburg for an international economic conference.

A 29-year-old Saudi prince — a defense minister, King Salman’s favorite son and a strong candidate to succeed him — doesn’t come to Russia just to see the beautiful churches of St. Petersburg. Mohammed was there to make a statement, and also to sign deals — including, most importantly, in nuclear technology.

Why would Saudis seek help in developing nuclear-energy technology? Surely not because they lack home-grown energy resources.

And why in the world would Riyadh turn to Russia, of all places, for help? After all, both countries rely on oil exports to maintain their economies, so they’re fierce competitors. (The Saudis must’ve been furious when Russia recently surpassed them as the largest oil exporter to China.)

Nevertheless, the Saudis are increasingly dismayed at America’s huge strides in befriending their regional rival, Iran. In official and semi-official statements, Riyadh has made clear its intention to match Iran’s nuclear progress step for step. Surely America won’t help them in that pursuit.

Until recently, the Saudis have mostly relied on the United States for all of their defense needs. Now they’re playing catchup: Public bravado aside, the Saudis are light years behind Iran in developing nuclear capability.

But they have money, and Riyadh has reportedly allocated $80 billion to fund its attempt to match Iran’s nukes in the next two decades.

All for peaceful purposes, of course. Just like Iran.

In the process, the Saudis will likely need to improve relations with anyone who’ll help in speeding up their nuclear pursuit: Russia, China, Pakistan, et al.

As American and Iranian diplomats itch to sign an oh-so-historic nuclear deal, our traditional allies are looking anywhere but to America for friendship.

It’s a desperate pursuit. Egypt would much rather bank on the old, reliable American dollar than on the volatile ruble, to say nothing of the value of having the US military train its officers. And Saudi Arabia is more comfortable doing business with America than with Russia or China.

But, as Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon said this week, Washington now sees Iran as the solution, while Israel — and America’s traditional Arab allies — see it as the problem.

We’re yet to witness any reciprocation for our efforts to befriend Iran. (Starting with an end to Tehran’s “death to America” chants, maybe?)

Meanwhile, our nuclear diplomacy, possibly culminating in an agreement this week, is a great lesson in how to lose friends and stop influencing people.
 

Orlando737

Well-Known Member
:lol: That was funny.
I was waiting for him to answer it, too. A cursory review of Wiki, and it seemed to me they had not invaded anyone since the early Ottoman empire. Is that correct?

However, I am no fan of Hezbollah, either. Nevertheless, in considering the situation from their perspective, some of that "Death to America" puffery makes a bit more sense. Their Republic is only as old as the satellite record, and with those nutty expansionists in Israel being a threat (real or not), such rhetoric should come as hardly a surprise. In fact, it appeared to be their only defense. Kind of like a porcupine stretching out its quills, or a cat posturing and hissing.
It's actually making me wonder about the hostage crisis from back then. That might be worth re-investigating.


That's right, possibly the Battle of Chaldiran, 1514, not quite sure.
I would also read up on the coup of 1953 that deposed the government of Mohammed Mossadegh and re-installed the Shah to the throne. It was the new CIA 's and Allen Dulles's first 'success'. It's still remembered and resented by the Iranians. That's why they come out with this 'Death to America' & call their embassy the 'nest of spies' as thats where the conspiracy started.
The next year, Dulles got rid of Arbenz in Guatemala for nationalising the land, therefore upsetting the large US banana exporters. btw Dulles had a financial interest in the fruit industry too.
And the rest, as far as the CIA goes is history
 
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OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
See and this is USA Achilles heal more n more countries are not trusting america it won't be long before many actually completely turn there backs on USA matter fact i wouldn't be surprised is sanctions on USA are imposed
If i was china i would say sorry we have to impose a 12 percentage surcharge on any goods we send to you from this date on take it or leave it haha
wonder how long supplies on shelf's in USA start disappearing matter fact odd ball i dare you to actually be honest here look at everything at you place where it was made i bet you get figures 88 percent China or japan and probably Indonesia, Taiwan , lets not for get if you have dress shows Italy or france lol and what percentage is made in USA
Cause that is where USA problem is odd look where that pc or phone your on is made lmao

That would make sense but so so many foreigner are killing to get here. Do you wanna see what would happen should the US stop forieng grants ?

I know there is too much self sustaining supplies and land to live without the rest of the world around us here in North America and if Montreal Canadians kick the shit out of Boston again, ...the States. What are you gonna grow in the fucking sand ? Fresh water all over the place here. High lands, plane lands, low lands swamp lands this a big fucking Country.

2 Anomy, I live in Boston, there`s thing around me that were made four hundred years ago and you can tell the difference between made in China, Japan, Taiwan and made in USA. If what you say happens the US would no longer need to sub out the work or materials anymore and we can go back to the way we were, slow to grow and good to know. You`ll find that most here could give two shits how the world feels about us, just stop the world from coming here and we`ll be fine.
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Oh, and Israel`s defense minister can suck my ass. They are a scared Nation surrounded. Who the fuck wants to live there, but they have to, and little Gaza aint satisfied with their as small spec of Earth.
 

Orlando737

Well-Known Member
Oh, and Israel`s defense minister can suck my ass. They are a scared Nation surrounded. Who the fuck wants to live there, but they have to, and little Gaza aint satisfied with their as small spec of Earth.
Gaza? yeah, still want to make the place as miserable as fuck for those poor people stuck in that open air prison.
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Annexing the West Bank and expelling its inhabitants and the Arabs left in Israels pre-1948 borders. Expanding their settlements in the expropriated land.
They will be offered 'generous' sums to leave, much of it donated to Israel by its good friends in the US (AIPAC, Congress, Sheldon Adelman ect).
Its openly spoken about in the Israeli cabinet, the Speaker of the Knesset is on record saying it.
They will then be driven out and into Jordan, we are talking about 3 million plus folks here.

Sound to me they want at least one escape route, the sea. Why ? What did Gaza do to keep that land free from the VFrench ? Not that you would need much but do try to remember what mad powerful, we are a superior race leaders do.
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Gaza? yeah, still want to make the place as miserable as fuck for those poor people stuck in that open air prison.

If they didn`t let every mad man in to throw bombs at Israel, they could prolly get along fine. Give em all the way to the Egypt beech and Israel can keep their little spec of beech. Or does Gaza have that already ? How do you trust Nation that lets every Jew hater on earth in to throw rocks and run ? Russia can have say so in Europe, cuz they died there along with us, but guys like Patton are why you still have a Middle East. Russia got no say down that far. There`s plenty of kids alive today who`s dad died freeing that fucking sand box and can`t imagine it was to save savages with no regard for Human Rights. So yes, I can see why American get a bad taste about that region and the way it behaves.

Dead is dead and somebody over here`s dad died first.
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
I still can`t see why the middle East can trust anyone that saved their asses from the biggest mass murdering war machine this planet has ever witnessed.
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone, I`m Montey from Britain, and I`m here with all kinds of American Hardware to be badass and kick ass.

Give me a fucking break.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
That's right, possibly the Battle of Chaldiran, 1514, not quite sure.
I would also read up on the coup of 1953 that deposed the government of Mohammed Mossadegh and re-installed the Shah to the throne. It was the new CIA 's and Allen Dulles's first 'success'. It's still remembered and resented by the Iranians. That's why they come out with this 'Death to America' & call their embassy the 'nest of spies' as thats where the conspiracy started.
The next year, Dulles got rid of Arbenz in Guatemala for nationalising the land, therefore upsetting the large US banana exporters. btw Dulles had a financial interest in the fruit industry too.
And the rest, as far as the CIA goes is history
Yah, I am familiar with the Dulles history. Although, it might be a good idea to revisit the subject of the Shah from outside the realm of oil co. interests (which is where I've seen the subject come up incessantly). Thanks for the idea.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I still can`t see why the middle East can trust anyone that saved their asses from the biggest mass murdering war machine this planet has ever witnessed.

The biggest mass murderer in history is government. It's like a fungus and no matter how much neem oil you spray it with it, it spreads from garden to garden.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
This Iran versus Saudi Arabia conflict is really getting nasty. Thanks to Obama who has made a huge mess out of all this, the next president will spend his entire tenure fixing what Obama has fucked up due to his indifference.

I really feel for those starving Syrians. All the supply routes for food and medical care have been cut off. We need to take out Assad, open up the supply routes, get the world relief thing going and try to establish normalcy. First we have to get rid of Obama.
 
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