4 Reservoirs… 1 Chiller

[Budley Doright]

So I'm confused (as usual lol). I run sprayers and thought until my last grow that temps were not s huge deal as the roots weren't flooded but as my water temps got above 70 root rot came with a vengeance. Now that I've lowered temps to 65 I have gotten rid of the rot so why would a flood and drain be different? My root zone actually got quite warm due to ambient temps when sprayers were not running also.

 

[jronnn]

I run an Iwaki pump model MD 40 inline for my chiller. See link below.

http://www.iwakipumps.jp/en/products/magnetic/135/md

Reason for my question #2-----If your assumption is the feed schedule of different stages of growth is absolutely required----IMO, NO.

So I ran this experiment-----link below.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/same-rez-experiment-for.861439/

A~~~

the inline pumps don't heat the water as the water passed through them? when it says "liquid temperature range 80C" in the description what does that mean?

also i noticed in your link you use an inline generator...is it the "big blue" brand? is it really effective? you just keep your exhaust on at all times?

i would do all the same res/nute levels if i was running all the same strain, its what Al B. Fuct does too but I'm running different strains so i don't want any strains being greedy. although I've heard and seen journals of people using the same res on multiple strains too id rather not risk it for the time being I'm not in a position where i would want to risk trying it myself

 

[jronnn]

So I'm confused (as usual lol). I run sprayers and thought until my last grow that temps were not s huge deal as the roots weren't flooded but as my water temps got above 70 root rot came with a vengeance. Now that I've lowered temps to 65 I have gotten rid of the rot so why would a flood and drain be different? My root zone actually got quite warm due to ambient temps when sprayers were not running also.

im also confused as to why people are saying i won't need it. unless i can keep temps below 69/70 then I'm definitely doing it

 

[Budley Doright]

Also I am planning on running three res's and trying to decide how best too do it without $1000 worth of shit lol. I am using a grundfos circ pump for the outdoor glycol loop, I believe it's a UPS 15-58 but I'll check. Pumping freeze protected to -50 c glycol (so thick) through 150' 3/8-3/4 copper loop. Probably just gonna copy a piping schematic for a 3 zone hydronic heat system, lots of diagrams out there. I have one zone running right now .

 

[Budley Doright]

And yes proof ya or nay (perhaps a study) of the effects of copper would be nice. I still use copper fitting but ditched the copper drain screen when I started to have issues just to be safe. If I'm not mistaken some factory built setups use copper screen on there drains.

 

[Alaric]

also i noticed in your link you use an inline generator...is it the "big blue" brand? is it really effective? you just keep your exhaust on at all times?

If referring to the UVON ozone?----yes works well except if it dies or the power goes out-----but I guess that problem exists with carbon filters also.

Exhaust blowers on 24/7.

To each his own----but running multiple strains can really complicate things.

A~~~

 

[Budley Doright]

^^^^^True that brother lol. Unless they're very similar in needs, growth, and finishing it can be frustrating.

 

[budleydoright]

And yes proof ya or nay (perhaps a study) of the effects of copper would be nice. I still use copper fitting but ditched the copper drain screen when I started to have issues just to be safe. If I'm not mistaken some factory built setups use copper screen on there drains.

Remember this effects nutrient water, not fresh water. A good source of info on this subject would be from the salt water aquarium guys. Likely some solid research on those forums. I have just read multiple horror stories of DWC systems taken down by the use of copper in the nutrient solution. When I built my chiller, I could buy a heat exchanger in copper, copper/nickle alloy or titanium with the later being made for use with aquariums.

Here's a little conversation on the subject in case you missed it.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/do-yourself/151657-diy-cool-coil-nutrient-res-chiller.html

 

[Budley Doright]

I'm trying to find some stainless tubing just to be safe but it's hard to come by and pricey.

 

[Budley Doright]

Ok so I'm an idiot . We have thousands of feet of corrugated stainless at work that we use for gas piping ...., look at it every day lol. I'm not sure about copper as some say yay, some say nay. But I've got stainless so I may as well use it and thinking its corrugated and very thin walled so heat transfer should be ok. Still trying to figure out the plumbing but guess I'll do a couple of loops and run a circ pump for each res. Hoping that inline Eco 395 's work cause I have some .

 

[jronnn]

And yes proof ya or nay (perhaps a study) of the effects of copper would be nice. I still use copper fitting but ditched the copper drain screen when I started to have issues just to be safe. If I'm not mistaken some factory built setups use copper screen on there drains.

a lot of people say the copper is bad but I've never seen proof, then again I'm also not trying to risk it either lol i think I'm going to further research the topic

If referring to the UVON ozone?----yes works well except if it dies or the power goes out-----but I guess that problem exists with carbon filters also.

Exhaust blowers on 24/7.

To each his own----but running multiple strains can really complicate things.

A~~~

yeah big blue ozones i want to get one but all the places that sell them seems like sketchy online hydro shops, where did you get yours? I'm thinking of getting the 8" for a future 1000 square foot room. but yeah running multiple strains wouldn't work for me at all trying to do single cola sog. whole point is to have an even canopy and different strains would make that nearly impossible

I'm trying to find some stainless tubing just to be safe but it's hard to come by and pricey.

i would probably just use something like this for SS http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller-w-garden-hose-fittings.html

Ok so I'm an idiot . We have thousands of feet of corrugated stainless at work that we use for gas piping ...., look at it every day lol. I'm not sure about copper as some say yay, some say nay. But I've got stainless so I may as well use it and thinking its corrugated and very thin walled so heat transfer should be ok. Still trying to figure out the plumbing but guess I'll do a couple of loops and run a circ pump for each res. Hoping that inline Eco 395 's work cause I have some .

are you saying you're you're going to be using the chilling method in my original post put instead of keeping the pumps in the water you're going to use inline pumps? each res having its own pump? wouldn't it be easier to just connect a manifold to 1 inline pump so the 1 pump can take care of all the reservoirs? also, does the inline pump add heat to the water as the water passes through it?

 

[Budley Doright]

Inline pumps add less heat to the water cause the motor is not in the water. And connecting all three res's together with a waterfall into each would be just great but....I will have plants at different stages, with different requirements, in each res, also if one goes to shit I want the others isolated. I am running an open one now where my pump pushes the res water through my heat exchanger then back to res.

 

[jronnn]

Inline pumps add less heat to the water cause the motor is not in the water. And connecting all three res's together with a waterfall into each would be just great but....I will have plants at different stages, with different requirements, in each res, also if one goes to shit I want the others isolated. I am running an open one now where my pump pushes the res water through my heat exchanger then back to res.

ahhh ok i gotcha, inline pumps definitely sound like something id rather use. so id just connect a manifold to an inline pump instead and the reservoirs can all can an equal amount of cold water

 

[Budley Doright]

If your manifold is built right yes. Have a look at some hydronic heating piping. Viesman, Weil McLean, and others have great reference material and your basically doing the same thing. I'll post a couple of picks of my system this weekend once I get all of the controls in place. The pumps are what is killing me price wise. Actually the whole project is adding up. If I had to buy everything it would be well over $500.

 

[jronnn]

If your manifold is built right yes. Have a look at some hydronic heating piping. Viesman, Weil McLean, and others have great reference material and your basically doing the same thing. I'll post a couple of picks of my system this weekend once I get all of the controls in place. The pumps are what is killing me price wise. Actually the whole project is adding up. If I had to buy everything it would be well over $500.

sounds good and yeah i calculated my project to be around 1k depending on the brand of chiller i use

 

[AKGrowAreo]

I have access to a fresh cold water faucet in my grow area and a drain. If you have these in your area try this out. It works absolutely great.
This was my #1 concern, keeping my reservoirs cool. I researched, then researched, then researched some more.

The idea of a traditional chiller was too expensive and pretty inefficient, and pumping my nute solution to a remote chiller seems fucking retarded (how to keep the lines from getting dirty, potential for flooding, extra reservoirs, fuck that business). Peltier Thermoelectric chillers simply would not do good enough, they are expensive to buy, annoying to make, and quick to fail. So what were my other options? I was stumped!

I went back to the drawing board and designed my own reservoir chilling system. Full disclosure, I am positive that other growers have developed the same chilling system as I did, but I could not find shit about it on the web so I designed this one all on my own. I am not claiming to have invented style of chiller, but I am fucking stoked on it and would love to hear from anyone who has done anything similar. My first designs were very similar to other DIY chillers out there and there was nothing special about it really. My first plan was to put put a coil of hose in a fridge and pump my nute solution through it using a timer. It would have worked, but also would have used unnecessary electricity and added extra headaches.

Frustrated, I then remembered that I had used a little thingy called a wort chiller when brewing beer in the past. Basically this is a immersion chiller that consists of a coil of metal tubing (usually copper, but you want a stainless steel one to prevent any leaching from the copper caused by the nute solution). What a great way to go! This meant I wouldn't have to keep any extra pumps in my res and I never have to move the nute solution out of the res to chill it! Duh, tons of people are using these so I don't know how I missed it!

I set out to put a really big res filled with potable RV/marine antifreeze into a freezer, then put a pump in the res connected to a hose that pumps the antifreeze through the wort chillers that sit in my reservoirs. The pump would be turned on and off by the another one of these $38 Inkbird thermostats with sensor and outlets built in.

Right when I was about to buy a fridge I had little light bulb go off in my head! Why the fuck should I wast time, power, and money on a fridge when my tap water is 43 degrees once it runs for a minute or two? I was stoked! I had finally figured it out!!! I am lucky enough to have a drain in the floor of my grow area and I plumbed cold water faucet to the area as well. Without both of these, you will not be able to run this chiller, sorry.

I turned my attention from fridges to sprinkler valve electronic relays. They are cheap and they last forever! Here is how it ended up working out. Don't buy cheap hose parts though because THEY WILL LEAK! I was able to build my chiller for my 2 flower room reservoirs for about $210 and its really easy to build. Shit is extra expensive where I live, so you can probably do better. I will do a detailed thread with pics and instructions on how to build this chiller as soon as I have some down time, but here are the basics.

These items work for my set up. You may need slightly different lengths of tubing, hose and more or less of some items. Measure and plan before you buy!

Supplies For 2 Reservoirs:

1 cold water hose faucet (sink will work but you'll need a garden hose adapter)
1 drain
2 - Super Efficient 3/8" x 25' Stainless Steel Wort Chiller = $40 each (brew shop or Amazon)
1 - Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage = $38 (Amazon
1 - Orbit 57100 3/4-Inch Female Pipe Threaded Auto Inline Sprinkler Valve = $12 (Amazon)
1 - Orbit Sprinkler System Power Source Transformer 57040 = $13 (Amazon)
1 - box of miscellaneous wire connectors = $5
2 - male 3/4 threaded to male garden hose adapters = $5 each (Lowe’s)
2 - 2 Way Solid Y Valve Garden Hose Connector Splitter Adapter = $13 each (Lowe’s)
1 - PTFE Pipe Thread Seal Tape = $2 (Lowe’s)
1 - 50’ length of garden hose = $13 (Lowe’s)
6 male and 6 female (this should be enough to have extras) hose repair pieces = $5 each (Lowe’s)
1 - 20’ length of 3/8” vinyl tubing = $10 (Lowe’s)
1 - 3/8” vinyl tubing T = $3 (Lowe’s)

Instructions For One Reservoir: (If only chilling one res you will only need 1 wort chiller and you wont need the vinyl tubing T.)

1. Connect 2 Way Y Valve Garden Hose Adapter to water faucet.
2. Connect one side to the new garden hose and the other side to your old garden hose (if you have one).
3. Run the hose close to your flower room and cut it to an appropriate length (pvc pipe cutters work great for this).
4. Connect female hose repair piece to the end of the hose where you just cut it.
5. Connect the 2 male 3/4 threaded to male garden hose adapters to the Orbit 57100 3/4-Inch Female Pipe Threaded Auto Inline Sprinkler Valve using PTFE Pipe Thread Seal Tape and be sure to tighten well using crescent wrench.
6. Connect the hose to the Orbit 57100 and tighten well. Be sure to find the arrow to ensure the water goes in the correct hole and out her other.
7. Connect Orbit Sprinkler System Power Source Transformer 57040 to Orbit 57100 using wire crimpers and connectors.
8. Connect another female hose repair piece to the other cut off end of the hose.
9. Connect the hose to the out end of the Orbit 57100 and tighten well.
10. Clean the wort chiller using dish soap to remove any machining oils and rinse well.
11. Insert wort chiller into reservoir.
12. Connect wort chiller to the garden hose.
13. Connect vinyl tubing to other end of the wort chiller.
14. Run vinyl tubing to drain.
15. Connect Power Source Transformer to the cooling outlet on the Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat.
16. Put temp sensor in the reservoir.
17. Plug thermostat into outlet and set desired temp, dead band, alarms, etc. Calibrate the unit if necessary.

Instructions For Two Reservoirs:

1. Follow instructions 1 through 9 from above then the following
2. Run the garden hose to a central location between the two res and cut.
3. Connect male hose repair piece to the newly cut end.
4. Clean the wort chillers using dish soap to remove any machining oils and rinse well.
5. Insert wort chillers into reservoirs.
6. Connect vinyl tubing to the supplied garden hose adapter.
7. Run tubing to the wort chiller and cut to appropriate length.
8. Repeat steps 6 and 7 to the other wort chiller.
9. Connect vinyl tubing to both wort chillers using supplied clamps.
10. Connect separate vinyl tubing pieces to the other end of each wort chiller.
11. Run the end of the tubing to a point where you can connect them to the vinyl tubing T.
12. Connect another piece of tubing to the other end of the T and run the tubing to the drain.

I set my res temp to 67 degrees with a 1 degree dead band so that the second the res it gets above 68 degrees the sprinkler relay is activated and cold water starts flowing through my wort chillers and thus chilling my nute solution. As soon as the temp goes below 67 degrees the water ceases to flow. I keep my sensor in my warmer of the two reservoirs and they stay within 1 degree of each other. I could adjust the flow to each res using the valves on the y adapter to get the temps exactly the same if I wanted, but I just keep the valves wide open cause I am not worried about the 1 degree difference. Make sure to secure the vinyl tubing into the drain in some way. If you don't the line has a tendency to pop out of the drain and start spraying water everywhere.

Inkbird Thermostat

Orbit 57100 3/4-Inch Female Pipe Threaded Auto Inline Sprinkler Valve (sprinkler relay)

I have it housed in a bucket just so its out of the way and doesn't get kicked accidentally.

I don't have any pics of the wort chillers, but they are pretty straight forward. Let me know what you think about this and would love to hear about other's experience with similar set ups.

 

[jronnn]

The idea of a traditional chiller was too expensive and pretty inefficient, and pumping my nute solution to a remote chiller seems fucking retarded (how to keep the lines from getting dirty, potential for flooding, extra reservoirs, fuck that business). Peltier Thermoelectric chillers simply would not do good enough, they are expensive to buy, annoying to make, and quick to fail. So what were my other options? I was stumped!

so basically you connected a "Y" to a faucet with hoses to each wort chiller and had a hose that went from the chiller to the drain and had something (transformer?) that lets water in & out when the thermostat says the water is too hot or cold... am i right? it'd be sick if you had more pics of everything sorry I'm stoned its a little hard to comprehend all of that. thank you for letting me know your set up though!

 

[AKGrowAreo]

Yo @jronnn thats the basic idea. I shot these pics for you last night, so sorry that they suck.

Connect to the y to the faucet and the hose to the y and then run it to wherever you want the electronic valve (Female Pipe Threaded Auto Inline Sprinkler Valve). The transformer is just the power cord that you have to connect to the sprinkler valve.
View attachment 3566429
Then the transformer gets plugged into the thermostat. Thermostat lets the water flow through the electronic valve and the wort chillers, and turns off once the water is cold enough.
View attachment 3566431 View attachment 3566432
Hose runs from the electronic valve to the wort chiller if one res or to the second y valve (you could get a 4 hose manifold for your application) one could also just use vinyl tubing and skip out on all the garden hoses. I just had extras laying around and wanted to try this out before I messed with all vinyl tubing, but it would look cleaner and take up less space without the garden hoses.
View attachment 3566435 View attachment 3566436 View attachment 3566437 View attachment 3566439 View attachment 3566443 View attachment 3566445 View attachment 3566446
Mine keeps both my flower res within 1 degree of each other. If you wanted everything exact you could get electronic valves and thermostats for each res, and its still affordable. After using this I would never mess with ready to run chiller. Plus not very expensive and usually easy to add a drain of some kind and a hose faucet in most places and I would do that over having a chiller any day!

 

[jronnn]

Yo @jronnn thats the basic idea. I shot these pics for you last night, so sorry that they suck.

thank you very much man for taking the time to explain it to me i totally get it and i think it just might work for me. again thanks for the idea man i really appreciate it!!!

 

[AKGrowAreo]

thank you very much man for taking the time to explain it to me i totally get it and i think it just might work for me. again thanks for the idea man i really appreciate it!!!

Awesome! Hope it works out for you. Def post some pics when you get it up and running if you end up going this route. One thing to consider though is if you are on metered water, my water is flat rate so I can use as much as I want. From what I understand most people are on flat rate these days though so you're most likely good to go.