Leaf problem (lots of pics)

[Geebs]

Hey RIU enthusiasts!

I'm looking for some advice on my problem, all 3 of my white widow autoflowers are about 6 weeks old...
I've noticed this new problem on the leafs, I'm wondering if it's perhaps cal/mag deficiencies... But am not sure...

Soil/hydro: SS#4 (peat moss inert medium)
Light: 1000 watts HPS with T5 HO
Temps: light on 80-82, light off 72-74 25% RH
Water/Nutes: General hydroponics 3 part, PH 5.5
Light regimen: 20 on/4 off

These are late into flowering, not sure how many more feeding I will give them, soon they will be getting straight water, but I'd like to know for future reference, or even try and fix the problem before the chop...

Also, should I defoliate any of the fan leaves?

Gimme some advice!
Thanks!

 

[Geebs]

Also forgot to mention, my last feeding was on the 7th of December, and the one before that was on the 2nd...

Both those feedings were based on GH 3 part nutrient guide... The reading was roughly 1090-1100 ppm... At around 5.5 PH

What I forgot to mention was that I took a reading of my runoff on the 7th, and the ppm of my runoff was higher then what was going in, roughly around the 1300-1400 ppm range, while staying around the 5.5-5.7 PH, could it be a lockout? Or is this normal this late into an autoflowers life cycle....

 

[polishpollack]

I suspect that sunshine mix has fert in it. I've never used it but based on you getting more ppm on the runoff makes me think so. also your ppm is pretty high for a soil grow or you have fed to frequently, or maybe both. what's obvious is the plant showing the effect of over feeding - dark green leaves, dying leaf tips. so flush with some water. 5.5 is too low to pH down the fert. don't worry about that, the pH will be fine when fert is mixed with water. just flush it with tap water and let it be for a while. let the soil dry out most of the way before you water again. don't flush it to a great degree, just enough to wash some of the ferts out, nothing drastic, and let it rest, let the soil dry out. avoid giving so much fert next time. I don't know what the chart says but something is obviously wrong with the feeding of this plant, it's been given too much. maybe consider a transplant to a bigger pot. then water the dry soil, let it be for a while. only feed when you really think you should and don't over do it. force feeding will kill a plant quickly.

 

[Alienwidow]

I suspect that sunshine mix has fert in it. I've never used it but based on you getting more ppm on the runoff makes me think so. also your ppm is pretty high for a soil grow or you have fed to frequently, or maybe both. what's obvious is the plant showing the effect of over feeding - dark green leaves, dying leaf tips. so flush with some water. 5.5 is too low to pH down the fert. don't worry about that, the pH will be fine when fert is mixed with water. just flush it with tap water and let it be for a while. let the soil dry out most of the way before you water again. don't flush it to a great degree, just enough to wash some of the ferts out, nothing drastic, and let it rest, let the soil dry out. avoid giving so much fert next time. I don't know what the chart says but something is obviously wrong with the feeding of this plant, it's been given too much. maybe consider a transplant to a bigger pot. then water the dry soil, let it be for a while. only feed when you really think you should and don't over do it. force feeding will kill a plant quickly.

No sunshine is a peat based medium. It has ne fertilizer in it..well almost none. His run off is high because hes feeding like its a full sized plant under a 1k light. Its not so it isnt eating what hes feeding. Thats why the high ppm runoff. Full feed is for plants that have big pots. If you want to run with low run off then run lower feed percentage. If you want to have good run off you can run higher ppms. Its all about what stays in the root zone. Ive seen guys burn plants because the run off gets re absorbed into the medium and the flush or "leach" is essentially useless because the pot re absorbs all the nutrients. If im in drip catchers or plant doilies i always elevate my plants so the run off dries to the bottom of the water catch.

 

[Alienwidow]

I suspect that sunshine mix has fert in it. I've never used it but based on you getting more ppm on the runoff makes me think so. also your ppm is pretty high for a soil grow or you have fed to frequently, or maybe both. what's obvious is the plant showing the effect of over feeding - dark green leaves, dying leaf tips. so flush with some water. 5.5 is too low to pH down the fert. don't worry about that, the pH will be fine when fert is mixed with water. just flush it with tap water and let it be for a while. let the soil dry out most of the way before you water again. don't flush it to a great degree, just enough to wash some of the ferts out, nothing drastic, and let it rest, let the soil dry out. avoid giving so much fert next time. I don't know what the chart says but something is obviously wrong with the feeding of this plant, it's been given too much. maybe consider a transplant to a bigger pot. then water the dry soil, let it be for a while. only feed when you really think you should and don't over do it. force feeding will kill a plant quickly.

And as far as a flush goes i wouldnt pussy foot around. Flush it hard and run the volume of the container X 3 at least. Get that ppm problem down. Wash it. Every one worries about ph...who cares about ph when your not adding calmag or feeding right? When people say ph is the problem i always want to say, "so what your saying is you have no idea what the problem is ?" User error 98/2 over ph problems.

 

[Geebs]

Alright, so over feeding is what we're thinking? I'll be sure to flush them out real good, and then go from there...

The pots that I'm using have excellent drainage, theirs a little saucer on the bottom of the pot that won't allow water to be wicked back up....

Where do we stand on defoliating or removing big fan leaves at this stage? I've read many mixed reviews...

 

[Alienwidow]

Alright, so over feeding is what we're thinking? I'll be sure to flush them out real good, and then go from there...

The pots that I'm using have excellent drainage, theirs a little saucer on the bottom of the pot that won't allow water to be wicked back up....

Where do we stand on defoliating or removing big fan leaves at this stage? I've read many mixed reviews...

Thats personal preference. I dont do it. Some guys do. I stripped a bunch of leaves in flower once and the plant suffered in yeild so i havent tried it again.

 

[Geebs]

Alright, I'll let her be... So in a couple days I'll flush the medium really well...

The next time I do, I'll grab another ppm reading of my runoff using only tap water... I'll post my results...

 

[polishpollack]

alienwidow, sorry but have to differ. if you go to the page
http://sunshineadvanced.com/
and click on sunshine mix #4 off to the right and play the video, the voiceover says "starter fertilizer charged gypsum" which means there is fert in the mix. at any rate, there is too much fert in this grower's soil. this is the most common mistake of growers. too much fert.​

 

[Geebs]

Thanks polishpolack for informing me of that, I was sure sunshine mix #4 was inert, but as you said, there is some starter nutes...

So I've given all 3 plants, triple the amount of straight water to try and flush out my medium... My tap water is 150 ppm, I tested the runoff of all three pots and these are my numbers;
-880 ppm
-900 ppm
-970 ppm

I guess I didn't take into account that the feeding regiment on the General Hydroponics bottle was in fact for a full size plant, and not an Autoflower... Live and learn...

I'll post an update to let you all know what happens... Thanks again

 

[bird mcbride]

When I see yellowing on the moms I increase the watering accordingly. I don't change (increase/decrease) the NPK, I use the same NPK mix throughout.

 

[Alienwidow]

alienwidow, sorry but have to differ. if you go to the page
http://sunshineadvanced.com/
and click on sunshine mix #4 off to the right and play the video, the voiceover says "starter fertilizer charged gypsum" which means there is fert in the mix. at any rate, there is too much fert in this grower's soil. this is the most common mistake of growers. too much fert.​

They dont sell sunshine where you live huh? He hasnt fed at all in veg.....at all. In soiless. It is in no way, anywhere near, even remotely, close to too much fetilizer. End of story. Re read the thread and youll see he hasnt fed one bit.

 

[Geebs]

Whoa, what? Alienwidow... I've been feeding them since they've been 2 weeks old... I'm not a complete noob lol

I started feeding them 2 weeks after they sprouted, theirs no way they would look like this if I hadn't fed them at all.. I was under the impression that sunshine mix was inert, as in no NPK value, so you better believe I've been feeding them...

The last two feeding were their biggest since I figured they would need it, until I started noticing some leaves getting burnt...

I'll tone it down to maybe 700-800 ppm until the final week. Sounds better for an auto perhaps?

 

[Geebs]

Not gonna lie, despite these bad leaves, I'm getting a harvest, and my garden smells amazing! Lots of trichomes on the top colas... Definitely learned a lot since this was my first soilless grow...

My biggest lesson is to add perlite to my medium... definitely need more perlite... Only been watering/nutes every 4-5 days, the medium takes a long time to dry out....

And also, to chill on the amount of nutes I'm giving these "little" girls... They aren't monsters by any means lol, but they sure do smell lovely!

 

[polishpollack]

well, alienwidow, good job.
in panel number 4 you acknowledge it's over feeding. I suspect that the real problem is this: GH nutes are made for a hydro grow, not soil. unless there is a recipe for npk ratio for soil, using the hydro level of npk, which seems to be what geebs is doing, is much too high. hydro grows have much more water to them, much more dilution than potting soil grows. so in soil or soilless as people like to call it, you would use less fert and feed less often. I suspect this is the real problem.

 

[Geebs]

Cool! I'll make sure to adjust for lower nutes... This is my first time using a soiless medium... I've always done hydroponics so me seeng those ppm numbers weren't out of the ordinary...

The general hydroponics 3 part does say that it's for any application (see top of bottle).. Clearly this feeding regiment would be for a full size plant, and not an Autoflower...

Here's some updated shots from this morning after their flush...

 

[MrStickyScissors]

Alright, so over feeding is what we're thinking? I'll be sure to flush them out real good, and then go from there...

The pots that I'm using have excellent drainage, theirs a little saucer on the bottom of the pot that won't allow water to be wicked back up....

Where do we stand on defoliating or removing big fan leaves at this stage? I've read many mixed reviews...

you have some kind of build up going on

 

[polishpollack]

geebs, you see how you have dark green leaves with dying tips? over fert all the way.

 

[Geebs]

I see that, yea... I'm gonna keep flushing with straight water, I'll post what the ppms of my runoff on the next watering...

 

[polishpollack]

don't flush too much because the roots need to be exposed to oxygen and they only get it from the air when soil dries out. I guess flush once more if you feel you need to, but then stop, don't do anything for a while, let the soil dry out.