giving defoliation during flower a try
- Thread starter Gucc1M3ng
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jacksthc
Well-Known Member
Say you move to another place with higher ceilings don't really understand what you mean because all light has limitations to how far light can pentrate a canopy to the point where the leaves can't use it.Those are very nice plants and buds.
Ok I understand your point (I think) you use "deleafing method" to avoid stretching, I never hear of this particular method but if works for you grow op excellent, usually stretching is undesirable even outdoors, so this what you do to avoid stretching has some sense to me.
Your technique doesnt work for my set-up, if I have stretching problems I just pack my bags and move to another place with higher ceilings. Same with light, if I have some light penetration problem I install more powerful lights.
But unlike what you state in your post "deleafers" say that pulling out shaded and fan leaves increases yields on the top buds and the bottom buds of the plant are bigger and better, and this sensless. (most of the enery in plant is stored in the form of sugars inside the leaves and is send towards necessary places all over the plant).
Bottom or fan leaves dont "suck" plants energy lets say this statement (i read this from a book writen by a botanical sciencist I`ll try to find references). This horticultural myth "shaded leaves suck energy instead of creating it" is false, this sciencist did the tests and field researches and his wok was really convincing, I dont exactly remember but this experiment was done lets say about the year 1950. (it s the source-sink theory).
You talk about "energy", "Lollipoppers" say that after cutting al the lower branches the plants "energy" it's directed towards the higher branches so this way the plant doesnt expend energy on lower "non productive" buds, here I can't agree with this statement, the plants energy system is regulated by a extremly complex internal system commanded by things like DNA.
When I hear the word "energy" it comes to my mind the word "Thermodynamics", what you say is true "no energy is wasted", all that pulled leaves and cutted branches that are thrown away contain stored energy in the form of carbohydrates (cellullose and sugars) and "nutrients" in the form of proteins , some one is gonna eat this stored nutrients and use that energy (sugars) whatever is a bunch of microbes feeding on the dead tissues of the leaves or whatever are the lower buds of the plant who eat that energy and nutrients.
Thermodynamics are mathematical "whats in is out", so now serious in this lollipopping scenario to say that cutting lower branches increase higher bud yield is to say that the leaves that are left on the plant are doing an increased photosynthetic duty, by whatever modified phisical or phisiological process.
After this they will talk about "apical hormonal dominance".
Man here we desesperately need true professional scientists to do all the necessary tests and research to get this discussion to a conclussion that everybody can agree.
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In a warehouse with multiple hps lights you could have large bushy plants 3-4ft high and 3 ft wide ( large plants keeping the plant count down) the plants could have 2ft cola's on in the ideal setup
its just the ideal of having 5-6ft plants and fill a large space, no light pentrate that deep all that happens is you lollipop the lower part of the plant, my theory is to grow plants to a good hight where you will gain the most yeild from a plant without the roots having to pump the nutes an extra 2 ft on the plant because you have grown it too tall
if you shade lower nodes/shoot they strech making them weak and often give you a low yeild (on that shoot )
if you remove a fan leave it will stunt the growth on that shoot only
have a look at my plant and you will see what i mean, I was able to control the 30 shoots on this 2ft plant to all grow the same speed and size, a real test to see if i could do it
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Can you give us an overview of what you did there please? Like veg time, any training, yield of one of those.Say you move to another place with higher ceilings don't really understand what you mean because all light has limitations to how far light can pentrate a canopy to the point where the leaves can't use it.
In a warehouse with multiple hps lights you could have large bushy plants 3-4ft high and 3 ft wide ( large plants keeping the plant count down) the plants could have 2ft cola's on in the ideal setup
its just the ideal of having 5-6ft plants and fill a large space, no light pentrate that deep all that happens is you lollipop the lower part of the plant, my theory is to grow plants to a good hight where you will gain the most yeild from a plant without the roots having to pump the nutes an extra 2 ft on the plant because you have grown it too tall
if you shade lower nodes/shoot they strech making them weak and often give you a low yeild (on that shoot )
if you remove a fan leave it will stunt the growth on that shoot only
have a look at my plant and you will see what i mean, I was able to control the 30 shoots on this 2ft plant to all grow the same speed and size, a real test to see if i could do it
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Check out his journal (https://www.rollitup.org/t/vegging-plants-under-40w-t5s.878481/page-4). His most recent harvest was 250g with a 600w. That's probably not a guy you want to hit up for tips.
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
I had wait 4 weeks before the flower room was free so i tried somthing like a 4 way lst (click here)
and tried to thin the canopy out to keep all the nodes level
put the plant in flower 4 week later, flowered it off and added a screen to turn it into a scrog and pull 6 oz's
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
you really have no ideal what your talking about fellow
It was a challange to see if i could veg some plants under 40w, flower then off under a 600w and pull a good yeild
in a very basic setup.
imo the results where amazing
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
So for you, 250g from a 600 is 'pulling a good yield'?
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Oh snap!!!! I was just wondering is all. Im not changing my grow style. My 6 foot plants work for me and my room.
jacksthc
Well-Known Member
For the amout of time, money and electria i put into the grow, 250g's was really good
cost me less than £12 an oz
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
So you vegged for 8 weeks?
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
6 zips a plant isn't really too shabby, was there room for more plants? Or was that using the whole light footprint?
There's some new strains (well new for me to grow, gdp) and it's such a low yielding plant I can only get about 18-20 zips per 1000w max
won't be growing it again, that's for sure. That's like 2 Oz max for 4 week veg time (extremely sad yielding plant)
But with anything else, doesn't matter what strain, it's pretty easy to get 24 zips per 1000w, or 32+ zips if there trained for an extra week. Yield really is all about veg time and plant count per given space imo, when using all the space given by the light footprint (usually 4x4 per 1000w), growing x16 12" plants vegged for a week or two will yield the same as x9 20" vegged for 4 weeks. But if you're only growing 1 plant and not utilizing the while foot print, the yield could be excellent for the 1 plant, but the yield just isn't maximized due to not filling the space
There's some new strains (well new for me to grow, gdp) and it's such a low yielding plant I can only get about 18-20 zips per 1000w max
won't be growing it again, that's for sure. That's like 2 Oz max for 4 week veg time (extremely sad yielding plant) But with anything else, doesn't matter what strain, it's pretty easy to get 24 zips per 1000w, or 32+ zips if there trained for an extra week. Yield really is all about veg time and plant count per given space imo, when using all the space given by the light footprint (usually 4x4 per 1000w), growing x16 12" plants vegged for a week or two will yield the same as x9 20" vegged for 4 weeks. But if you're only growing 1 plant and not utilizing the while foot print, the yield could be excellent for the 1 plant, but the yield just isn't maximized due to not filling the space
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Lol, Chuck does that a lot. Post meme that actually makes HIM look less bright.
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
For 8 weeks of veg it could be considered a disaster in most cases.6 zips a plant isn't really too shabby, was there room for more plants? Or was that using the whole light footprint?
There's some new strains (well new for me to grow, gdp) and it's such a low yielding plant I can only get about 18-20 zips per 1000w max
But with anything else, doesn't matter what strain, it's pretty easy to get 24 zips per 1000w, or 32+ zips if there trained for an extra week. Yield really is all about veg time and plant count per given space imo, when using all the space given by the light footprint (usually 4x4 per 1000w), growing x16 12" plants vegged for a week or two will yield the same as x9 20" vegged for 4 weeks. But if you're only growing 1 plant and not utilizing the while foot print, the yield could be excellent for the 1 plant, but the yield just isn't maximized due to not filling the space
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Jesus, does anyone veg 8 weeks mongo? Wtf I thought 4 weeks sounded like a long time, 8 weeks veg would equal a 8ft plant. Ain't nobody got ceilings fo' Dat!
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
I thought thats what he wrote he vegged for. Im 4 max in most cases. 22-24 days god willing.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Same here, I like the 4 week mark because it keeps the rotation perfect, 6 weeks would throw things off and over veg would happen, sometimes I get lucky with a plant that grows fast and 21 days it's ready. This kens gdp I have took 6 weeks to grow to like 12", both times I grew it, so I culled it. Never seen such a slow plant and then to have it yield so bad.. Just sad
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Im right with you with the low yielding strains. Been doing the same low yielding strain for the last 6 years. Other then a 3xcrazy one time, and a fake girl scout cookie another.
Alpha Grower
Member
Say you move to another place with higher ceilings don't really understand what you mean because all light has limitations to how far light can pentrate a canopy to the point where the leaves can't use it.
In a warehouse with multiple hps lights you could have large bushy plants 3-4ft high and 3 ft wide ( large plants keeping the plant count down) the plants could have 2ft cola's on in the ideal setup
its just the ideal of having 5-6ft plants and fill a large space, no light pentrate that deep all that happens is you lollipop the lower part of the plant, my theory is to grow plants to a good hight where you will gain the most yeild from a plant without the roots having to pump the nutes an extra 2 ft on the plant because you have grown it too tall
if you shade lower nodes/shoot they strech making them weak and often give you a low yeild (on that shoot )
if you remove a fan leave it will stunt the growth on that shoot only
have a look at my plant and you will see what i mean, I was able to control the 30 shoots on this 2ft plant to all grow the same speed and size, a real test to see if i could do it
I,m ok with your thoughts.
I think if I maybe spray water mixed with Vaseline all over my plants I'll get a better light penetration, how know if I found the ultimate snake oil.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Damm 6 years, that's too long lol. I miss the days of nl #5 when I could pull 1gpw in 65 days time including veg
when I moved to the west I learned this. Me: can I grow nl #5
Them : No!
Me: what can I grow?
Them: low yielding ogs or the current trend
Lol. Fml
a mongo frog
Well-Known Member
Yes Them/Me= Low yielding ogDamm 6 years, that's too long lol. I miss the days of nl #5 when I could pull 1gpw in 65 days time including veg
Me: can I grow nl #5
Them : No!
Me: what can I grow?
Them: low yielding ogs or the current trend
Lol. Fml