giving defoliation during flower a try

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
Oh, these are the ones I have the lighting issues with. They'll be taller than the vertical 2x4s in a few weeks, and just a jungle. I've grown this set up with less plants spread out further, but the yield is about double when I pack them in there, so it's worth the extra little things I have to do really

rps20151127_173435.jpg

Here's the last day of veg, they're pretty big, that's the reason to do what I do

rps20151127_173419.jpg
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Here's my smaller tray, I don't lollipop these since I flower them much shorter. But I use reflective board on the tray because it helps in this case and the lowers plump up much more since light can actually reach it, I was going to use panda film for the walls, but I'm not sure that matters for the flood trays since I have a 2nd light to the left giving light off as well and the canopy is perfect size

View attachment 3552297
The reflective surface is a nice touch but adding some side reflection is absolutely more beneficial. You'd be surprised at how much brighter your entire room is after just covering that single corner in something similar to panda film.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
Oh, these are the ones I have the lighting issues with. They'll be taller than the vertical 2x4s in a few weeks, and just a jungle. I've grown this set up with less plants spread out further, but the yield is about double when I pack them in there, so it's worth the extra little things I have to do really

View attachment 3552300

Here's the last day of veg, they're pretty big, that's the reason to do what I do

View attachment 3552299
Dope set up! And thats when one cleans up the under carriage for more air flow. But i don't call that de foliating. Would call that crop control.
 

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
The reflective surface is a nice touch but adding some side reflection is absolutely more beneficial. You'd be surprised at how much brighter your entire room is after just covering that single corner in something similar to panda film.
I'll try put some up after the grow finishes up, I've been wanting to use white plastic but I don't own the house and just have been trying to be as non invasive as possible :/

Dope set up! And thats when one cleans up the under carriage for more air flow. But i don't call that de foliating. Would call that crop control.
Thanks man! And exactly! That's all I've been trying to say the whole time but most people have fingers in their ears and singing " lalalalala" haha. It's pretty much a must, if I didn't prune, a lot of things would go wrong. I don't like to try and constantly fix problems as they happen, I like to take care of biz and get things done proper before buds start setting in. Then I can relax, when problems happen and there's a shit ton of buds and 5' plants, it's hard to do anything at that point and I don't like to trim anything when buds are setting because that could put stress on the plant. In about 10 days I'll get in there and just thin out what's needed, then it's smooth sailing til harvest
 

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
I'll try put some up after the grow finishes up, I've been wanting to use white plastic but I don't own the house and just have been trying to be as non invasive as possible :/


Thanks man! And exactly! That's all I've been trying to say the whole time but most people have fingers in their ears and singing " lalalalala" haha. It's pretty much a must, if I didn't prune, a lot of things would go wrong. I don't like to try and constantly fix problems as they happen, I like to take care of biz and get things done proper before buds start setting in. Then I can relax, when problems happen and there's a shit ton of buds and 5' plants, it's hard to do anything at that point and I don't like to trim anything when buds are setting because that could put stress on the plant. In about 10 days I'll get in there and just thin out what's needed, then it's smooth sailing til harvest
You know how I've been telling you that you should put up the panda film?
Now you should for sure, especially because of all the spraying your gonna be doing. Protect them walls, and get some reflection going on. No excuses anymore! Lol:-D
Shit, i probably got enough from the last roll i got
 

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
You know how I've been telling you that you should put up the panda film?
Now you should for sure, especially because of all the spraying your gonna be doing. Protect them walls, and get some reflection going on. No excuses anymore! Lol:-D
Shit, i probably got enough from the last roll i got
Totally, I think what I'll do is use staples maybe and I'll just have to paint when I move, I was really hoping to not have to paint lol. Or maybe wood strips would work better, either way I'll grab a roll and in about 5 weeks I can start putting it up on the right side and work my way around as the other stuff finishes

Shit if you have enough leftovers that'd be awesome, I don't think I need much really, 4x20 or so
 

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
Totally, I think what I'll do is use staples maybe and I'll just have to paint when I move, I was really hoping to not have to paint lol. Or maybe wood strips would work better, either way I'll grab a roll and in about 5 weeks I can start putting it up on the right side and work my way around as the other stuff finishes
I got ya bro. I got an easy and clean way without stapling directly to the drywall. I'll tell you in person. I'm kicking it with my kid, and don't feel like typing it out on my phone rite now:-D
Fuck putting that shit up over that wood paneling in the veg room though.
Later mang
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
I got ya bro. I got an easy and clean way without stapling directly to the drywall. I'll tell you in person. I'm kicking it with my kid, and don't feel like typing it out on my phone rite now:-D
Fuck putting that shit up over that wood paneling in the veg room though.
Later mang
Alright ill come too. What you guys going to be smoking on?
 

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
All in the oven is gdp and gg4 at the moment :) @Aeroknow sorry tagging u 2x - I think my 20amp circuit breaker is bad, all 120v outlets in the flower room not working. All work in the garage though. Think it's a bad breaker though I've never had that happen before. Need your help if your free tomorrow or a run down on how to not kill myself
 
I remember the first time in my life that I planted a Cannabis seed, I was like 20 years old, I bought some weed on the street, the bud had 1 seed, I thought that was a good idea to plant that seed but i had no clue on how to grow it.

So I picked one plastic pot, i filled it with soil that I took for free from I dont know where, and planted that seed on april outdoors on one balcony, I gave water from time to time to that plant (actually i watered it only when I remember to do it and it wasnt very often), the only "botanical" thing i knew at that time was that Cannabis grow at spring and summer and flowers at late august beginning of fall season. The plant that was regular (i didnt know there was feminized seeds available nor I knew that was possible to buy seeds, im from Spain and 20 years ago nobody listened nothing about seed companies) the seed turned out to be a female.
On October my plant was full of buds that were potent, I just realized how strong and resilient is Cannabis plant (botanical scientists say that cannabis is a pioneering plant that overgrows everything).

So that plant received only water, free soil, 1 minute of care per day, and that plant made a living for herself and gave me perfectly smoke-able stuff, everybody got stoned and happy with that weed, here we are talking about "real" free cannabis, free seed, free pot, free soil, free light (sun).

There was no lollipopping, no scrog, no LST, no Ro water, no expensive fertilizers and "additives", no flushing, no care, and specially no clue about the most basic horticulture, BUT the plant managed to give my a good amount of nice and potent buds.

Right now I'm studying a lot of horticulture and botanical books (not cannabis specific) and also i'm reading a lot how tropical biotopes works, questions arise like ¿what is the typical composition and fertility of soil in tropical forests? (the ideal environment for cannabis), ¿what are the climate conditions lets say humidity, rain frequency, wind, etc? i think that understand how is the natural environment of Cannabis can be very useful to understand the plant itself.

My approach in Cannabis growing is to give cannabis plant the proper environment, in nature there is no such things like LST, scrog, Lollipopping, deleafing, flushing (all scientists agree with that flushing in nature is actually bad and is caused because natural disasters, and no wise grower want "disasters" on his indoor or outdoor), etc.

I, ve learned a lot reading forum threats from very expert growers like Uncle Ben and others, also I,ve learned a lot form spanish pro-growers with decades of experience ,every pro has its own ways of growing and tastes (hydro, organic, indicas, sativas, etc), but one thing that I realized and it seems to be a mathematical thing, pro growers with tons of experience can grow for real free super excellent weed outdoors and indoors never rely his ways on cannabis "specific" fertilizers or "techniques" like deleafing etc, because they just understand things like scrog and deleafing are a lot of extra unnecessary work and are harmful techniques that stress weed plants and often stunt them.

Thank you Uncle Ben and the other experienced growers for sharing for free true and scientifically proven knowledge, you guys have enlighten some growers like myself. :clap::peace:
 
All in the oven is gdp and gg4 at the moment :) @Aeroknow sorry tagging u 2x - I think my 20amp circuit breaker is bad, all 120v outlets in the flower room not working. All work in the garage though. Think it's a bad breaker though I've never had that happen before. Need your help if your free tomorrow or a run down on how to not kill myself
Im new in this forum I'm not an expert and I want to learn, you name inspired mine, i'm not an "uncle" but i'm not a kid anymore, I know what real men want and what they want are "real things", men want to be "alpha" in whatever task they are involved with, it doesnt matter if it is growing Cannabis or collecting stamps, real men take their things seriously and want to be experts in the fields under their jurisdiction.

Being an expert in whatever thing in life, (for example playing guitar) need years of study and work and growing weed isnt different.

So an "Alpha" approach to do things in life for me is a good mentality, I think its a winning mentality, courage, determination and knowledge leads to success.:peace:
 

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
I remember the first time in my life that I planted a Cannabis seed, I was like 20 years old, I bought some weed on the street, the bud had 1 seed, I thought that was a good idea to plant that seed but i had no clue on how to grow it.

So I picked one plastic pot, i filled it with soil that I took for free from I dont know where, and planted that seed on april outdoors on one balcony, I gave water from time to time to that plant (actually i watered it only when I remember to do it and it wasnt very often), the only "botanical" thing i knew at that time was that Cannabis grow at spring and summer and flowers at late august beginning of fall season. The plant that was regular (i didnt know there was feminized seeds available nor I knew that was possible to buy seeds, im from Spain and 20 years ago nobody listened nothing about seed companies) the seed turned out to be a female.
On October my plant was full of buds that were potent, I just realized how strong and resilient is Cannabis plant (botanical scientists say that cannabis is a pioneering plant that overgrows everything).

So that plant received only water, free soil, 1 minute of care per day, and that plant made a living for herself and gave me perfectly smoke-able stuff, everybody got stoned and happy with that weed, here we are talking about "real" free cannabis, free seed, free pot, free soil, free light (sun).

There was no lollipopping, no scrog, no LST, no Ro water, no expensive fertilizers and "additives", no flushing, no care, and specially no clue about the most basic horticulture, BUT the plant managed to give my a good amount of nice and potent buds.

Right now I'm studying a lot of horticulture and botanical books (not cannabis specific) and also i'm reading a lot how tropical biotopes works, questions arise like ¿what is the typical composition and fertility of soil in tropical forests? (the ideal environment for cannabis), ¿what are the climate conditions lets say humidity, rain frequency, wind, etc? i think that understand how is the natural environment of Cannabis can be very useful to understand the plant itself.

My approach in Cannabis growing is to give cannabis plant the proper environment, in nature there is no such things like LST, scrog, Lollipopping, deleafing, flushing (all scientists agree with that flushing in nature is actually bad and is caused because natural disasters, and no wise grower want "disasters" on his indoor or outdoor), etc.

I, ve learned a lot reading forum threats from very expert growers like Uncle Ben and others, also I,ve learned a lot form spanish pro-growers with decades of experience ,every pro has its own ways of growing and tastes (hydro, organic, indicas, sativas, etc), but one thing that I realized and it seems to be a mathematical thing, pro growers with tons of experience can grow for real free super excellent weed outdoors and indoors never rely his ways on cannabis "specific" fertilizers or "techniques" like deleafing etc, because they just understand things like scrog and deleafing are a lot of extra unnecessary work and are harmful techniques that stress weed plants and often stunt them.

Thank you Uncle Ben and the other experienced growers for sharing for free true and scientifically proven knowledge, you guys have enlighten some growers like myself. :clap::peace:
your right growing weed is mathematical and can be worked out like this, wow never see anyone else make comment like this before.
also defoliation is used in late veg and early flower to stunt parts of the plant, its a way to keep the shoots growing at the same speed, the stems grow thicker and nodes are closer, it can realy help with a few plants if you know what your doing of mess your plants up if you don't

I find large fan leaves cause parts of the plants to strech if the shoots are shaded by other fan leaves, you can see this on nearly every plant over 3ft on most grow journal, grower don't know or don't want to see it but its there.

first pic i found on google pics

strech.jpg


one of my plants after i removed the fan leaves just before havest

northen lights.png

just loads of bud no wasted enegy :)
 
your right growing weed is mathematical and can be worked out like this, wow never see anyone else make comment like this before.
also defoliation is used in late veg and early flower to stunt parts of the plant, its a way to keep the shoots growing at the same speed, the stems grow thicker and nodes are closer, it can realy help with a few plants if you know what your doing of mess your plants up if you don't

I find large fan leaves cause parts of the plants to strech if the shoots are shaded by other fan leaves, you can see this on nearly every plant over 3ft on most grow journal, grower don't know or don't want to see it but its there.

first pic i found on google pics

View attachment 3553676


one of my plants after i removed the fan leaves just before havest

View attachment 3553680

just loads of bud no wasted enegy :)
Those are very nice plants and buds.:bigjoint:

Ok I understand your point (I think) you use "deleafing method" to avoid stretching, I never hear of this particular method but if works for you grow op excellent, usually stretching is undesirable even outdoors, so this what you do to avoid stretching has some sense to me.

Your technique doesnt work for my set-up, if I have stretching problems I just pack my bags and move to another place with higher ceilings. Same with light, if I have some light penetration problem I install more powerful lights.

But unlike what you state in your post "deleafers" say that pulling out shaded and fan leaves increases yields on the top buds and the bottom buds of the plant are bigger and better, and this sensless. (most of the enery in plant is stored in the form of sugars inside the leaves and is send towards necessary places all over the plant).
Bottom or fan leaves dont "suck" plants energy lets say this statement (i read this from a book writen by a botanical sciencist I`ll try to find references). This horticultural myth "shaded leaves suck energy instead of creating it" is false, this sciencist did the tests and field researches and his wok was really convincing, I dont exactly remember but this experiment was done lets say about the year 1950. (it s the source-sink theory).

You talk about "energy", "Lollipoppers" say that after cutting al the lower branches the plants "energy" it's directed towards the higher branches so this way the plant doesnt expend energy on lower "non productive" buds, here I can't agree with this statement, the plants energy system is regulated by a extremly complex internal system commanded by things like DNA.

When I hear the word "energy" it comes to my mind the word "Thermodynamics", what you say is true "no energy is wasted", all that pulled leaves and cutted branches that are thrown away contain stored energy in the form of carbohydrates (cellullose and sugars) and "nutrients" in the form of proteins , some one is gonna eat this stored nutrients and use that energy (sugars) whatever is a bunch of microbes feeding on the dead tissues of the leaves or whatever are the lower buds of the plant who eat that energy and nutrients.
Thermodynamics are mathematical "whats in is out", so now serious in this lollipopping scenario to say that cutting lower branches increase higher bud yield is to say that the leaves that are left on the plant are doing an increased photosynthetic duty, by whatever modified phisical or phisiological process.

After this they will talk about "apical hormonal dominance".:sleep:

Man here we desesperately need true professional scientists to do all the necessary tests and research to get this discussion to a conclussion that everybody can agree.

firlaw2.gif e723259ac0e98c79beb38b958188a9b5.jpg CarterBairdThePotScientist.JPG
 
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AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
Those are very nice plants and buds.:bigjoint:

Ok I understand your point (I think) you use "deleafing method" to avoid stretching, I never hear of this particular method but if works for you grow op excellent, usually stretching is undesirable even outdoors, so this what you do to avoid stretching has some sense to me.

Your technique doesnt work for my set-up, if I have stretching problems I just pack my bags and move to another place with higher ceilings. Same with light, if I have some light penetration problem I install more powerful lights.

But unlike what you state in your post "deleafers" say that pulling out shaded and fan leaves increases yields on the top buds and the bottom buds of the plant are bigger and better, and this sensless. (most of the enery in plant is stored in the form of sugars inside the leaves and is send towards necessary places all over the plant).
Bottom or fan leaves dont "suck" plants energy lets say this statement (i read this from a book writen by a botanical sciencist I`ll try to find references). This horticultural myth "shaded leaves suck energy instead of creating it" is false, this sciencist did the tests and field researches and his wok was really convincing, I dont exactly remember but this experiment was done lets say about the year 1950. (it s the source-sink theory).

You talk about "energy", "Lollipoppers" say that after cutting al the lower branches the plants "energy" it's directed towards the higher branches so this way the plant doesnt expend energy on lower "non productive" buds, here I can't agree with this statement, the plants energy system is regulated by a extremly complex internal system commanded by things like DNA.

When I hear the word "energy" it comes to my mind the word "Thermodynamics", what you say is true "no energy is wasted", all that pulled leaves and cutted branches that are thrown away contain stored energy in the form of carbohydrates (cellullose and sugars) and "nutrients" in the form of proteins , some one is gonna eat this stored nutrients and use that energy (sugars) whatever is a bunch of microbes feeding on the dead tissues of the leaves or whatever are the lower buds of the plant who eat that energy and nutrients.
Thermodynamics are mathematical "whats in is out", so now serious in this lollipopping scenario to say that cutting lower branches increase higher bud yield is to say that the leaves that are left on the plant are doing an increased photosynthetic duty, by whatever modified phisical or phisiological process.

After this they will talk about "apical hormonal dominance".:sleep:

Man here we desesperately need true professional scientists to do all the necessary tests and research to get this discussion to a conclussion that everybody can agree.

View attachment 3553965 View attachment 3553966 View attachment 3553967

I've attached the science a page back of why it is OK to take heavily shaded lower leaves off. Check that out ;) it appears you like science, so you'll know why Shaded leaves are undesired and be pro lollipopping for certain circumstances. You also said you like the idea, or understand using defoliation to control height. Man, are you pro defoliation :/ but scared to say it
 

Attachments

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I've attached the science a page back of why it is OK to take heavily shaded lower leaves off. Check that out ;) it appears you like science, so you'll know why Shaded leaves are undesired and be pro lollipopping for certain circumstances. You also said you like the idea, or understand using defoliation to control height. Man, are you pro defoliation :/ but scared to say it

You say "defoliation works for certain circumstances" and you say if you know what are you doing defoliate can avoid undesired stretching.

What you are doing is not "defoliate nor lollipopping" in your veg plants in the picture, I think you in this case are just "training" your plants a little bit and pulling off some big shaded leaves you said to avoid stretching, not to "get a higher yield" as lollipoppers state.

I think you DO NOT believe that pulling off leaves leads to a higher yield of buds isnt it?

Lollipoppers state that pullin off leaves allow light to reach the surface of all buds from top to bottom and this leads to higher yields and overall higher quality, and this is sensless, the nutrients and energy that budding sites of plant require it is created on leaves by means of photosynthesis and is inmediately stored or send to sinks on the forming buds.

So I DO NOT support or believe on methods like "deleafing or lollipopping" at all.
 

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
Nope, I didn't say any of that at all ;) quote me or it didn't happen lol

But yes, not defoliation, training, but not to avoid stretching, I want my plants to stretch. Lollipopping if for large indoor plants for a large thick canopy. The lower leaves can not photosynthsize efficiently when heavily Shaded, and will go deficient and use energy rather than create it, then they will die rapidly. That is the main reason to remove the lowest leaves. Other reasons are for ipm, not getting water all over the plant when watering etc.
 
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