Simple and Reasonable Suggestions Please

$bkbbudz$

$bkbbudz$

Well-Known Member
Greetings,

I have read a lot of reviews, conjecture, claims etc. I have always grown under HID but am looking for the best alternative. With the changes in technology in recent years I am sure I can find a good light for my budget.

I am not very well versed on the LED lingo. SO, I would simply like to have suggestions on a product that will get me the best bang for the buck,,,(I am willing to spend up to $400.00). My grow area is a 4'x4'x7' tent.

Thanks!
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
i don't think you could grow with optimal results in a 4x4 with a 400$ led. your probably looking at 700-900$ to actually replace the HID in that footprint. maybe somebody has a budget LED setup they could share with you.
 
bassman999

bassman999

Well-Known Member
$bkbbudz$ said:
Greetings,

I have read a lot of reviews, conjecture, claims etc. I have always grown under HID but am looking for the best alternative. With the changes in technology in recent years I am sure I can find a good light for my budget.

I am not very well versed on the LED lingo. SO, I would simply like to have suggestions on a product that will get me the best bang for the buck,,,(I am willing to spend up to $400.00). My grow area is a 4'x4'x7' tent.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
What light(s) are you replacing?
This would make it easier to set a budget
 
$bkbbudz$

$bkbbudz$

Well-Known Member
OK obviously my budget has too be rethought. I am willing (but reluctant) too increase to $600.00

I see lots of lights on ebay but don't want too get duped by marketing claims. I could actually do a 600w above and two 300w for the sides. So, with that in mind, I am still looking for product recommendations. I was looking the King LED store online as well as the MARS product...thoughts?
 
$bkbbudz$

$bkbbudz$

Well-Known Member
SPLFreak808 said:
He's in a 4x4. Its safe to say a 1kw hps.
Click to expand...
I actually run in 600W The issue is I just moved to a new place and stealth is of upmost importance. I want to be able to close my tent with just a fan/filter combo to suck out some heat and smell. With HID I cannot run with the tent closed due to heat buildup. I know I could do the cool tube and an additional fan to suck out the heat at the light. However due to the very cold climate I live in and the fact that I don't want ducting all over the place, I thought I would try LED.
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
$bkbbudz$ said:
OK obviously my budget has too be rethought. I am willing (but reluctant) too increase to $600.00

I see lots of lights on ebay but don't want too get duped by marketing claims. I could actually do a 600w above and two 300w for the sides. So, with that in mind, I am still looking for product recommendations. I was looking the King LED store online as well as the MARS product...thoughts?
Click to expand...
Chip on board led is the closest way to match up with an HID and even then the results are different. If you dont give a crap about optimum lighting then just go with cheap led's(they are actually expensive). If you are really trying to replace an HID in a 4x4 its not gonna happen without good led's and that will be 700-900$ probably more unless you go with outdated chips. If your happy with your 600w hps results, then 600watts of actual led draw should do you fine.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
$bkbbudz$ said:
OK obviously my budget has too be rethought. I am willing (but reluctant) too increase to $600.00

I see lots of lights on ebay but don't want too get duped by marketing claims. I could actually do a 600w above and two 300w for the sides. So, with that in mind, I am still looking for product recommendations. I was looking the King LED store online as well as the MARS product...thoughts?
Click to expand...
I would start at the beginning then....What is light, how is it produced and what is the difference in efficiency [aka output] in sources....Then research the types of LED's that are >efficient than HID....

There are differences in LED tech delivering light, just as there are differences in the HID world....most of the cheaper LED's are of substandard old tech, where efficiency [aka output] is about half of a good HID setup...and costs more to boot :)

Newer tech, has increased efficiency to deliver photons better than any other source at the moment. Its new, things take time to implement new tech and price fixing on top.

But understanding how light is delivered and its properties goes a LONG way in explaining the differences between single diode based LED lights like MARS or the new COB or LES tech LED's that are fairly new on the market and companies just now are starting to offer them in commerical offerings....

Lots of plusses, especially in the long run: No bulb changes, different waste heat calculations, possible decreasing Electricty use, different Terp profiles due to "tuning" of the photo biology...more than a set source like HPS [2200k only w/out supplementation].... etc etc etc.....
 
bassman999

bassman999

Well-Known Member
I am going with CXA3070 currently.
I know they are last years tech, but that is still way higher tech than the mid/lower end of Mars.

When I have more money I will sub in CXB cobs, or whatever is best at that time.
I bought a nice large heatsink for passive cooling, and wont have to upgrade that.
I am also buying quality drivers, so cobs will be only thing that needs to be replaced.
The only reason I will replace cobs is to buy more expensive ones that are much more efficient.
 
$bkbbudz$

$bkbbudz$

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
Chip on board. They are a complete unit,just attach to heat sink,attach power leads and go.
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ok, so again forgive the ignorance here ...is there simple to follow instruction on RIU on how to build this? I have a hard time screwing on a license plate, not a 'handy 'kind of guy here.
 
nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
COB technology is the newest form of LED. Instead of a string of single dies emitting light (mono = mars/kind/etc), you have many dies packed into one light emitting surface, and only a few COBS in your lamp instead of hundreds of monos.

Each "mono" in a mars luminaire is unfortunately run at a high current. This means that the "mono" heats up more than it should and in a way "warps" the die so that it runs less and less efficiently over time. An LED unit that is designed this way will not generate less heat than an HPS. In fact, to save money, most companies use too much power for too few chips and sacrifice your efficiency (your lamps ability to create light from electricity instead of heat), to save themselves money.

It is hard to buy a pre-made LED unit that justifies the cost because the way to maximize efficiency(and beat HPS) is to spread your 600w over 12 or more high power COBS. Right now COBS are expensive so the only way to do this is by purchasing the parts separately and building the unit yourself.

If you are not prepared to build something, then be prepared to spend a lot more than even $600 to properly light that space.



$bkbbudz$ said:
Please forgive my hippie ignorance:peace: but what is COB?
Click to expand...
 
D

doz

Well-Known Member
nogod_ said:
COB technology is the newest form of LED. Instead of a string of single dies emitting light (mono = mars/kind/etc), you have many dies packed into one light emitting surface, and only a few COBS in your lamp instead of hundreds of monos.

Each "mono" in a mars luminaire is unfortunately run at a high current. This means that the "mono" heats up more than it should and in a way "warps" the die so that it runs less and less efficiently over time. An LED unit that is designed this way will not generate less heat than an HPS. In fact, to save money, most companies use too much power for too few chips and sacrifice your efficiency (your lamps ability to create light from electricity instead of heat), to save themselves money.

It is hard to buy a pre-made LED unit that justifies the cost because the way to maximize efficiency(and beat HPS) is to spread your 600w over 12 or more high power COBS. Right now COBS are expensive so the only way to do this is by purchasing the parts separately and building the unit yourself.

If you are not prepared to build something, then be prepared to spend a lot more than even $600 to properly light that space.
Click to expand...
He could probably light a 4x4 area and get as good as a 600w w/ 8xCXB3070 and do it for $600. Might not be the prettiest, or the most ideal setup, but it can be done. I would take 400w of CXB3070 @ 48% efficiency over a 600w HID any day. This if course if OP is willing to spend a little more.

I just did the math. He could do an active air setup on the cheap w/ 8 CXB3070 on 185-1400b drivers for right at $600 if ordered from Jerry.
 
$bkbbudz$

$bkbbudz$

Well-Known Member
nogod_ said:
COB technology is the newest form of LED. Instead of a string of single dies emitting light (mono = mars/kind/etc), you have many dies packed into one light emitting surface, and only a few COBS in your lamp instead of hundreds of monos.

Each "mono" in a mars luminaire is unfortunately run at a high current. This means that the "mono" heats up more than it should and in a way "warps" the die so that it runs less and less efficiently over time. An LED unit that is designed this way will not generate less heat than an HPS. In fact, to save money, most companies use too much power for too few chips and sacrifice your efficiency (your lamps ability to create light from electricity instead of heat), to save themselves money.

It is hard to buy a pre-made LED unit that justifies the cost because the way to maximize efficiency(and beat HPS) is to spread your 600w over 12 or more high power COBS. Right now COBS are expensive so the only way to do this is by purchasing the parts separately and building the unit yourself.

If you are not prepared to build something, then be prepared to spend a lot more than even $600 to properly light that space.
Click to expand...
doz said:
He could probably light a 4x4 area and get as good as a 600w w/ 8xCXB3070 and do it for $600. Might not be the prettiest, or the most ideal setup, but it can be done. I would take 400w of CXB3070 @ 48% efficiency over a 600w HID any day. This if course if OP is willing to spend a little more.

I just did the math. He could do an active air setup on the cheap w/ 8 CXB3070 on 185-1400b drivers for right at $600 if ordered from Jerry.
Click to expand...
doz said:
He could probably light a 4x4 area and get as good as a 600w w/ 8xCXB3070 and do it for $600. Might not be the prettiest, or the most ideal setup, but it can be done. I would take 400w of CXB3070 @ 48% efficiency over a 600w HID any day. This if course if OP is willing to spend a little more.

I just did the math. He could do an active air setup on the cheap w/ 8 CXB3070 on 185-1400b drivers for right at $600 if ordered from Jerry.
Click to expand...
WOW, I guess I dropped too much acid in the 70's LOL! I don't understand more than 90% of what I have been reading about LED growing. I was hoping for a simple plug and play unit that would efficiently grow 1 gm/w at a reasonable price. Apparently there is no such animal. Thanks for the replies I guess I will just have to stick with HID for now. Peace.
 
D

doz

Well-Known Member
Here is some reading material. If you spend a week reading through the vast amount of information that many people have graciously provided, you will understand. I too was overwhelmed at first with the LED tech. I dug into it and began reading. Within a week, I was ordering parts. First grow resulted in 1.2g/w whereas my best ever was .66g/w with HID.

In short, you will need:
LED driver (a lot of us use Meanwell drivers)
COBS (CXB3070 and CXB3590 are most common currently w/ Veros being used as well)
Heatsink (HeatsinkUSA is a great source, some choose CPU coolers)
Wiring, Kapton Tape, soldering gun (if not using COB holders), hardware to hook it all up

Cob efficiency: http://rollitup.org/t/cob-efficiency-spreadsheets.865238/
Supras 1500w of knowledge: http://rollitup.org/t/cxb3590-1500w.878136/
Kingbrite (Jerry, where a lot of us order parts from): http://rollitup.org/t/kingbrite-rocks.866244/
DIY LEDs: http://rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/
Heatsinks: http://rollitup.org/t/heatsinks-for-diy-led-lamps.851907/
Matching Drivers & COBS: http://rollitup.org/t/matching-drivers-and-cobs.883866/

You can also search many of us who have grown. Lots of us have builds on here. SupraSPL, Realstyles, Greengenes, Positivity, Alesh, EfficientWatt, Rahz, Churchhaze, and MANY MANY more have tons of information posted everywhere.
 
ReeferDance

ReeferDance

Well-Known Member
$bkbbudz$ said:
WOW, I guess I dropped too much acid in the 70's LOL! I don't understand more than 90% of what I have been reading about LED growing. I was hoping for a simple plug and play unit that would efficiently grow 1 gm/w at a reasonable price. Apparently there is no such animal. Thanks for the replies I guess I will just have to stick with HID for now. Peace.
Click to expand...
And check out all the designs in the Post a pic of your build thread! Lots of good info there.

Most of the plug and play stuff is all blurple, the CoBs we are talking about are all about white light baby. :blsmoke:

It is very easy to build your own CoB light with a little diligence and know-how. Took me a few months of reading to finally take the plunge, bought some cheaper parts off ebay to test my skills and now there is no turning back. If you want efficiency, and to do away with some heat/ventilation this is the way to go.
 
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